Another observation: PSR

dquarasr

Registered
Not a question for the Instructors, but rather another observation. This one is about PSR.

About a month ago, I was shooting WAY above skill level. I had found a few things that had me locked in. Shots were falling, shape was happening almost unconsciously. In my Scotch Doubles 8-ball league individual matches I'm undefeated, earning 91% of points available, and we have not lost a Scotch match I've played in. I went rackless two weeks in a row, and got moved from APA SL5 to SL6. Feeling pretty good about things.

While I was shooting well, I wrote myself a PSR checklist on my phone, so I could remember the steps and keys during my shot approach to perform at a high level.

In the last couple of weeks, however, I lost it. I had regressed a lot. Thankfully, this past week I had a bye so I didn't need to play against anyone. I'm so glad I had this break because likely I would have lost a league match.

I had been purposely trying to become less robotic and more automatic and flowing. The first few days it was working. But as time went by I was getting worse. I was missing simple shots. Shape was no longer there. I was missing even more shots, even very easy shots.

(Aside: I've noticed that potting balls and getting shape seem to go together; when I'm confident and making shots, shape just seems to "happen" (of course, I'm visualizing my shots). Speed control is there, the balls go in, and the CB goes pretty much where I expect it to go. When I'm struggling, neither happens.)

I was actually regressing. So, I broke out my PSR checklist.

Apparently, I've mistaken "robotic" vs "free-wheeling", and what these terms really mean. I've found it is possible to be "robotic" to a point where all the PSR steps are rigidly followed, yet still be relaxed and "free-wheeling". And that "free-wheeling" does not really mean "just get down and shoot it, forget all that PSR discipline."

At least, for my stage of development, I still need to be consciously placing my feet, aligning my head, rotating my hips, putting the cue down on the shot line, aligning my elbow, keeping my elbow and shoulder quiet, and gripping the cue with my back hand feeling the weight on my pinkie finger. I don't have to dwell on these things so much that I lose the free-flowing stroke, but I do need to think about them until after my warm-up strokes, and only then, "release" my brain to simply let the shot happen. It's a fine line between being disciplined and totally free-wheeling it., innit?

I'm not quite there yet, where all this just flows naturally. I assume it will take many more months, or even years, before this "robotic" PSR becomes second nature, and I can get in the rhythm much more easily.

For now, though, I'm just happy I have a "formula" for getting down on the shot and achieving that confidence such that I can focus on my keys to performance, and enjoy the pots and watching the CB go where I plan for it to go.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not answering a question because you didn't ask any.

'Robotic' and 'free-wheeling' mean different things to different players. Figuring out what they mean to you in the context of your own game is all that matters.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Not a question for the Instructors, but rather another observation. This one is about PSR.

About a month ago, I was shooting WAY above skill level. I had found a few things that had me locked in. Shots were falling, shape was happening almost unconsciously. In my Scotch Doubles 8-ball league individual matches I'm undefeated, earning 91% of points available, and we have not lost a Scotch match I've played in. I went rackless two weeks in a row, and got moved from APA SL5 to SL6. Feeling pretty good about things.

While I was shooting well, I wrote myself a PSR checklist on my phone, so I could remember the steps and keys during my shot approach to perform at a high level.

In the last couple of weeks, however, I lost it. I had regressed a lot. Thankfully, this past week I had a bye so I didn't need to play against anyone. I'm so glad I had this break because likely I would have lost a league match.

I had been purposely trying to become less robotic and more automatic and flowing. The first few days it was working. But as time went by I was getting worse. I was missing simple shots. Shape was no longer there. I was missing even more shots, even very easy shots.

(Aside: I've noticed that potting balls and getting shape seem to go together; when I'm confident and making shots, shape just seems to "happen" (of course, I'm visualizing my shots). Speed control is there, the balls go in, and the CB goes pretty much where I expect it to go. When I'm struggling, neither happens.)

I was actually regressing. So, I broke out my PSR checklist.

Apparently, I've mistaken "robotic" vs "free-wheeling", and what these terms really mean. I've found it is possible to be "robotic" to a point where all the PSR steps are rigidly followed, yet still be relaxed and "free-wheeling". And that "free-wheeling" does not really mean "just get down and shoot it, forget all that PSR discipline."

At least, for my stage of development, I still need to be consciously placing my feet, aligning my head, rotating my hips, putting the cue down on the shot line, aligning my elbow, keeping my elbow and shoulder quiet, and gripping the cue with my back hand feeling the weight on my pinkie finger. I don't have to dwell on these things so much that I lose the free-flowing stroke, but I do need to think about them until after my warm-up strokes, and only then, "release" my brain to simply let the shot happen. It's a fine line between being disciplined and totally free-wheeling it., innit?

I'm not quite there yet, where all this just flows naturally. I assume it will take many more months, or even years, before this "robotic" PSR becomes second nature, and I can get in the rhythm much more easily.

For now, though, I'm just happy I have a "formula" for getting down on the shot and achieving that confidence such that I can focus on my keys to performance, and enjoy the pots and watching the CB go where I plan for it to go.
Key for you (and for many!) have a PSR including a checkoff point where you move off mechanical focus to feel and feedback.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Key for you (and for many!) have a PSR including a checkoff point where you move off mechanical focus to feel and feedback.
Would that be something like air stroking where you feel the weight of the cue and visualize the shot?
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I've been though similar, not an instructor and not trying to give advice, just what seems to work for me.

If everything is working great I tend to get "free wheeling" to the point I start missing shots (usually get shape still) I need to step back and get back to solid fundamentals. It always comes back to fundamentals. I hate this fact. I start to drift into bad habits. When shooting good, it feels like it will never happen but it does. Basically I have to figure everything out while standing, try to not get too extreme on english/spin. I must figure out several shots in advance. Once the plan is there I will switch into performance mode where thinking is not allowed. The stroke must have some "beauty" to it, as in it feels good and has good execution.

Basically I need to reign it in and keep more center ball with a pure stroke and good follow through. It's a vicious cycle though, because the better I shoot, the lazier I get on PSR and more importantly actually coming up with a plan. The plan doesn't need to be super detailed, just something like, ok the next 2 balls go into the corner then I need to shoot the 5 into the side.
 

dquarasr

Registered
If everything is working great I tend to get "free wheeling" to the point I start missing shots (usually get shape still) I need to step back and get back to solid fundamentals. It always comes back to fundamentals. I hate this fact. I start to drift into bad habits.
<snip>
…because the better I shoot, the lazier I get on PSR
This^^^

Kind of what I experience. I need to force myself to go through PSR every single shot.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
<snip>

This^^^

Kind of what I experience. I need to force myself to go through PSR every single shot.

Every shot should be treated like work, a project that requires your full attention and focus, even when you're "free-wheeling", or especially when you're free-wheeling.

And keep in mind that every player has ups and downs - every player. With the better players it might sometimes be difficult to recognize the difference between their average performance and their peak performance, but they know when they're off a bubble or two, whether anyone else recognizes it or not.

It's called regression to the mean. The quality of performance is always somewhere between our rock bottom and our peak, and most of the time it's just right in the middle, our average game.

We simply don't perform our best every single time we play. But the good news is we don't perform our worst every time either. And the more consistent we become, the less extreme our ups and downs become.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look --- All this emphasis on pre shot routines is going to drive you all to the looney bin. There's a reason that everyone keeps falling out of it. It's because it's not natural to do unless you have OCD, in which case, you delight in the PSR. Yes, it's a necessary evil, but not to the extent you all think.

So, let me assist you all in improving your fundamentals while remaining a sane human being. Learn your tendencies and focus on those. When you say you fall out of your PSR, it's not all of it --- it's a particular part of your fundamentals. Don't worry so much about the other stuff. You're already doing it. Focus on the one or two things that cause your game to start going south.

Those tendencies will show up often and are usually the cause of the beginning of a slump. Once you know what they are, you can stop a slump in about 5 minutes. You don't need to go down the whole darn checklist for every shot unless you want to drive yourself nuts. Then I can't help you there.
 

dquarasr

Registered
Look --- All this emphasis on pre shot routines is going to drive you all to the looney bin. There's a reason that everyone keeps falling out of it. It's because it's not natural to do unless you have OCD, in which case, you delight in the PSR. Yes, it's a necessary evil, but not to the extent you all think.

So, let me assist you all in improving your fundamentals while remaining a sane human being. Learn your tendencies and focus on those. When you say you fall out of your PSR, it's not all of it --- it's a particular part of your fundamentals. Don't worry so much about the other stuff. You're already doing it. Focus on the one or two things that cause your game to start going south.

Those tendencies will show up often and are usually the cause of the beginning of a slump. Once you know what they are, you can stop a slump in about 5 minutes. You don't need to go down the whole darn checklist for every shot unless you want to drive yourself nuts. Then I can't help you there.
Understood and thanks for the helpful insight.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Look --- All this emphasis on pre shot routines is going to drive you all to the looney bin. There's a reason that everyone keeps falling out of it. It's because it's not natural to do unless you have OCD, in which case, you delight in the PSR. Yes, it's a necessary evil, but not to the extent you all think.

So, let me assist you all in improving your fundamentals while remaining a sane human being. Learn your tendencies and focus on those. When you say you fall out of your PSR, it's not all of it --- it's a particular part of your fundamentals. Don't worry so much about the other stuff. You're already doing it. Focus on the one or two things that cause your game to start going south.

Those tendencies will show up often and are usually the cause of the beginning of a slump. Once you know what they are, you can stop a slump in about 5 minutes. You don't need to go down the whole darn checklist for every shot unless you want to drive yourself nuts. Then I can't help you there.
Thanks Fran, great insight!
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Would that be something like air stroking where you feel the weight of the cue and visualize the shot?
It could be--the very best players in all stick-and-ball sports have a time and place (could be air stroking) when they move from left-brain and static, to feel, move and perform.

Pool is tough because the ball just sits there and waits for you to right brain and feel, but in basketball, baseball, football, etc. you run after/chase after a ball in motion and just "do" with little time to think, aka psyche yourself out.

Does this make sense to you? Standing erect, you think spin, speed, aim, stroke, defense, etc. then just get down and move.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
It could be--the very best players in all stick-and-ball sports have a time and place (could be air stroking) when they move from left-brain and static, to feel, move and perform.

Pool is tough because the ball just sits there and waits for you to right brain and feel, but in basketball, baseball, football, etc. you run after/chase after a ball in motion and just "do" with little time to think, aka psyche yourself out.

Does this make sense to you? Standing erect, you think spin, speed, aim, stroke, defense, etc. then just get down and move.
One fairly common way to signal the switch from "thinking mode" to "performance mode" is putting the chalk down on the rail (assuming you normally do that). Chalk up = thinking/planning/walking around mode. Chalk down = quiet mind/performing mode.

pj
chgo
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've noticed that potting balls and getting shape seem to go together; when I'm confident and making shots, shape just seems to "happen" (of course, I'm visualizing my shots). Speed control is there, the balls go in, and the CB goes pretty much where I expect it to go. When I'm struggling, neither happens.
I've found it is possible to be "robotic" to a point where all the PSR steps are rigidly followed

not an instructor, but I think this is good stuff
agree that within boundaries, we can find much satisfaction
in fact I think often it's within confining spaces that we discover our best
whatever your psr looks like, I'll bet once you feel more comfy with it, things will flow more
and you'll enjoy it. and things will flow more. and you'll enjoy it. and things will...
thanks for sharing. keep at it, have fun!!
 

dquarasr

Registered
Update: since I was upgraded to an SL6 I got my @$$ whipped "rackless" 0-4, and was summarily moved back down to an SL5 (prematurely, if you ask me). I won last night 2-1 team points.

I did not play great. I played to my SL, 5.

I picked up the cue tonight. Inexplicably, I did not follow my "robotic" routine. I simply stood in front of the shot, looked at it 3 seconds, got down without thinking about it, checked my cue alignment by never taking my eyes off the OB, and shot with no practice strokes, and most shots went right in.

This game is confounding, and confounding absolutely. I can be mechanical and be great. I can be mechanical and be so f-ing far off I'm playing like an SL3. I can look at the shots and get down and be phenomenal absent PSR theatrics; I can get down on shots and can't make anything.

If I could bottle "how to walk the fine line between a mechanical stance, alignment, and stroke and simply seeing it and executing it without thinking about it much", I'd be a freakin' billionaire.

As CJ says, the game is the teacher. Some day I'll figure this $h!t out, hopefully before I'm too old to appreciate it. Or not.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Update: since I was upgraded to an SL6 I got my @$$ whipped "rackless" 0-4, and was summarily moved back down to an SL5 (prematurely, if you ask me). I won last night 2-1 team points.

I did not play great. I played to my SL, 5.

I picked up the cue tonight. Inexplicably, I did not follow my "robotic" routine. I simply stood in front of the shot, looked at it 3 seconds, got down without thinking about it, checked my cue alignment by never taking my eyes off the OB, and shot with no practice strokes, and most shots went right in.

This game is confounding, and confounding absolutely. I can be mechanical and be great. I can be mechanical and be so f-ing far off I'm playing like an SL3. I can look at the shots and get down and be phenomenal absent PSR theatrics; I can get down on shots and can't make anything.

If I could bottle "how to walk the fine line between a mechanical stance, alignment, and stroke and simply seeing it and executing it without thinking about it much", I'd be a freakin' billionaire.

As CJ says, the game is the teacher. Some day I'll figure this $h!t out, hopefully before I'm too old to appreciate it. Or not.

The PSR does not have to be "robotic". In fact, it should be free-flowing, fluid and consistent. Simply treat every shot the same. Too much rigid focus on body mechanics can definitely take your mind off the shot itself.

Think of it like this: Your body is a machine that performs a cueing function (the stroke). The mechanics of that performance should be automatic, more subconscious than conscious. All you have to do for each shot is visualize what needs to happen, then place your body in the correct position so that it can perform. The focus should be on the visualization of the shot, not on micromanaging the mechanics or performance of your machine.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Think of it like this: Your body is a machine that performs a cueing function (the stroke). The mechanics of that performance should be automatic, more subconscious than conscious. All you have to do for each shot is visualize what needs to happen, then place your body in the correct position so that it can perform. The focus should be on the visualization of the shot, not on micromanaging the mechanics or performance of your machine.
That's what she said. :D
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
The PSR does not have to be "robotic". In fact, it should be free-flowing, fluid and consistent. Simply treat every shot the same. Too much rigid focus on body mechanics can definitely take your mind off the shot itself.

Think of it like this: Your body is a machine that performs a cueing function (the stroke). The mechanics of that performance should be automatic, more subconscious than conscious. All you have to do for each shot is visualize what needs to happen, then place your body in the correct position so that it can perform. The focus should be on the visualization of the shot, not on micromanaging the mechanics or performance of your machine.
The old saying goes pool is 90% mental. The thing is, when your "mental" isn't correct it can make your stroke go to crap. Thinking too much can destroy your game and stroke.

Generally in league I start my first game very tentative and usually lose it. Worrying about perfection and not losing. Second game can go either way. If I lose, I basically say "F it" and just go into animal mode. I'll shoot the hardest most low percentage stuff. This should be bad, but it's when I win. Shape almost becomes automatic, 2 way shots always somehow appear if I miss the OB. I don't know how or why it happens, but when I finally get to the point of "F it" I usually start winning and keep winning until I lose focus and start over analyzing everything.

I cant remember who it was but someone recommended imagining losing and getting to the "F it" point before even starting the match. I believe it.

When I say "F it" and just go for the guts I usually win. Now when I ever finally get my damn fool self to remember this and stop mentally sabotaging myself I know I could give my current self a spot and still beat him.

This game is so strange! o_O
 
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