Another Tournament with "No Conflict Rules"

Pushout said:
The rule never made any sense to me, just a rule to be able to win without being offensive, which was never the intent in 9 ball before that rule.
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Generally the purpose is to avoid stalemates and having to replay racks. Sometimes the balls end up in such a way that offense isn't a realistic choice for either player. It just seemed odd to me to eliminate a rule that is rarely used and serves the purpose of speeding up matches. I have no strong feelings one way or the other honestly. Just I've seen this at some tournaments and wondered tge reason behind it.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
Generally the purpose is to avoid stalemates and having to replay racks. Sometimes the balls end up in such a way that offense isn't a realistic choice for either player. It just seemed odd to me to eliminate a rule that is rarely used and serves the purpose of speeding up matches. I have no strong feelings one way or the other honestly. Just I've seen this at some tournaments and wondered tge reason behind it.
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How do you get a stalemate in 9 ball?

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
How do you get a stalemate in 9 ball?

Lyn
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I've seen it happen a few times in APA where they don't have the 3 foul rule due to the point structure, and it happened in one of my team's matches at the most recent Cash Cup tournament. Basically it has to be a situation where there is a cluster that neither player wants to take a chance at breaking up because the balls lay in such a way that a win would be guaranteed should the other player get a chance with the balls open. Both players keep taking fouls, and after 3 innings (in APA) the rack is played over with the person breaking who broke the stalemated rack.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
Can someone explain the logic behind eliminating the 3 foul rule? I always thought that rule made sense in rotation games. 1. It's not that easy to do so it's not like there are a lot of racks ending that way 2. Stalemates (which can result if you don't have the rule) generally suck and takes up extra time for having to play the racks over.
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I assume you are talking about players who are equally rated. It is extremely easy to 3 foul players if there is a wide gap in skill levels especially if the weaker player has problems kicking. It also upsets and discourages weaker players when it happens to them over and over.
 
Never heard of tournaments held like this before, but I think this is great. The biggest point of luck is the break, and at top levels, both 9 and 10 ball become a break contest.

Allowing the shooter to shoot again doesn't completely remove the break because you still need to control the cueball and get a shot at the 1. But no more matches will be decided because one guy has figured out how to make the wing ball and the other guy hasn't.

I would guess that good players win something like 70 or 80% of their breaks with these rules, it kinda becomes like in tennis where holding serve is expected.

My personal opinion, I would keep the 3-foul rule, I think it makes sense and keeps the game going in some situations. But that's minor.
 
Explanation for eliminating the 3-foul rule:

I have no strategic or fairness reason for doing so. I have found that it is more satisifying and pleasing to the field of players to finish every game and win by legally pocketing the 9-ball when it is the last ball on the table.
 
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Does a player continue to shoot if they pocket a game ball early (not on the break shot) and it's the only pocketed ball?
 
Hi Paul,

Are your brackets available online anywhere? I looked into them a while back and it looked like they would allow you to use more tables deeper into the tournament at the expense of a more traditional payout structure. Seems like it could be a very useful option for bigger tournaments when time is limited.

I run a tournament management website called NomadPool.com and I'd be interested in how you have your brackets setup.
 
miscrewed89 said:
... I would choose (if was in the area) not to play due to those rules. ...
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What if the rules were like this (no conflict with these, either):

• Rack your own.
• Place some of the balls in specified positions; the others go anywhere. Pattern racking is allowed.
• Break from anywhere behind the head string.
• If you miss the rack on the break, do it over.
• You can hit the rack anywhere on the break.
• Breaker shoots with ball in hand after the break, even if he broke dry or knocked balls off the table or scratched.
• Alternate breaks.


[mini-kudos to first person to correctly identify where these rules are used]
 
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AtLarge said:
What if the rules were like this (no conflict with these, either):

• Rack your own.
• Place some of the balls in specified positions; the others go anywhere. Pattern racking is allowed.
• Break from anywhere behind the head string.
• If you miss the rack on the break, do it over.
• You can hit the rack anywhere on the break.
• Breaker shoots with ball in hand after the break, even if he knocked balls off the table or scratched.
• Alternate breaks.


[mini-kudos to first person to correctly identify where these rules are used]
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If it brings a crowd of people together to play, it sounds good to me.
 
DetroitLarry said:
Hi Paul,

Are your brackets available online anywhere? I looked into them a while back and it looked like they would allow you to use more tables deeper into the tournament at the expense of a more traditional payout structure. Seems like it could be a very useful option for bigger tournaments when time is limited.

I run a tournament management website called NomadPool.com and I'd be interested in how you have your brackets setup.
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Are you talking about this one? This is my modified double elimination chart. This format took hours off the time it took to run a standard double elimination tournament. It is also is more equitable.
 

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Always a great event

Paul is not telling everything. He quit using this chart. He now runs with a bracket that is absolutely genius and is the most fun and exciting thing I've seen. If Barry used it for the US Open, he would get his 256 wait-listed every year. You can bet on that, all day...
 
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morthnrdy said:
Paul is not telling everything. He quit using this chart. He now runs with a bracket that is absolutely genius and is the most fun and exciting thing I've seen. If Barry used it for the US Open, he would get his 256 wait-listed every year. You can bet on that, all day...
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Now you went and spilled his secret! :rolleyes: :p :thumbup: I'll be there on the 30th.

Lyn
 
zpele said:
Woh the breaker isn't required to make a ball on the break to keep shooting? That's..... Interesting
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So just play the one up table for an easy first shot with CB position. Pretty obvious you don't just smash them.

Alternating break is ok. Keeps scores close but better players still win.
 
takeitdown said:
So just play the one up table for an easy first shot with CB position. Pretty obvious you don't just smash them.

Alternating break is ok. Keeps scores close but better players still win.
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Problem with that is having to drive two balls past the centerline of the side pockets. If that requirement is not met, the breaker MUST push out even with a wide open table. It's a whole different skill set from Texas Express.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Problem with that is having to drive two balls past the centerline of the side pockets. If that requirement is not met, the breaker MUST push out even with a wide open table. It's a whole different skill set from Texas Express.

Lyn
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Lyn, I will also add that balls pocketed in the foot corners are not credited toward the center string requirement. Sink the 2 wing balls in the corners and 2 balls are still required to break the center string vertical plain. You have to give yourself a good rack and you have to hit 'em.
 
It went well yesterday: $5800 calcutta and a full field of 64. Not bad for a summer big table tournament on a beautiful day. Play began at 12 noon and finished right on time at 1:00 AM. As always, there was never an issue over racking and breaking.
 
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