Antler joints

[DEGAMO88]

I love the hit of the ivory joint on my cue, but I want to venture into something new like deer antler for the next cue I'm having built. I want something that hits as hard as ivory, but I'm not sure of the differences between the materials out there. What kind of joints have you used in the cues that you've built besides ivory? What are the differences between moose, mule deer, axis deer, or elk antlers (or any other deer for that matter) when making a joint? Preferences? Recommendations? Thanks in advance!

 

[Run the Century]

Abear cues (he used to make cues here in Texas) used a lot of buckhorn in his cues. There is not really a problem using the stuff - but personally I dont like the "greyness" in the white. It always look funny and like dirty ivory to me - but again thats just a subjective opinion. I stick to ivory (almost all my cues have ivory joints and I love the look and hit). Just my 2 cents.

 

[rhncue]

Abear cues (he used to make cues here in Texas) used a lot of buckhorn in his cues. There is not really a problem using the stuff - but personally I dont like the "greyness" in the white. It always look funny and like dirty ivory to me - but again thats just a subjective opinion. I stick to ivory (almost all my cues have ivory joints and I love the look and hit). Just my 2 cents.

Buck horn hits a little harder than Ivory and is much stronger. I don't particulerly like it because as what was stated above, it isn't the prettiest of ferrules, even when bleached. A few years ago I had a Hagen cue with buckhorn ferrules and the cueball squirted badly when english was applied.
Dick

 

[JoeyInCali]

Antlers are the best joint material imo.
They don't crack like ivory.
They hit great as evidenced by the popularity of Hagan and Zylr cues.
They do take a lot of work to prepare. Kinda dangerous too as you have to cut them on bandsaw really carefully.
There are several species of course. The ones I have, I'd rather keep private.
They are expensive already. Kinda disheartening too when you drill them and some show some diseases so they're only good for joint protectors.
Cutting and turning them round is a lot of work and some skill. Without cuemaker Kerry Zeiler teaching me how to cut them and turn them, I'll have no clue how to do it.
The marrow on them cannot be more 5/8 in diameter if you want to thread them.
To thread them requires good tooling.
Bill Hagan made excellent hitting cues. He used different species for collars, buttcaps and ferrules. To this day, Hagan Cues command top dollar.
Hagan cue were known for great hit and low deflection. I think Dick ran into one with a really heavy antler ferrule. If you use the tips of antlers as ferrules, you can leave them capped and thin enough to be light. They are very very strong.
They do come in different colors or shades. I'm happy with the ones I have b/c they are not too wild looking.
White-tail is prolly the most popular and the cheapest.
Their powder/dust btw is toxic. Very stinky too.
They take a lot of work to make imo hence the unpopularity. Much easier to use phenolic or ivory. Ivory commands more dollar too.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Cutting and turning them round is a lot of work and some skill.

I made a ferrule from an antler once. It is very hard to get them cut up and then getting them centered in the lathe is no picnic either. I guess an independent 4 jaw chuck would have made it a bit easier.

Their powder/dust btw is toxic. Very stinky too.

I agree, it smells really bad. The toxicity is something I did not know about, thanks for sharing that.

Tracy

 

[DEGAMO88]

Buck horn hits a little harder than Ivory and is much stronger. I don't particulerly like it because as what was stated above, it isn't the prettiest of ferrules, even when bleached. A few years ago I had a Hagen cue with buckhorn ferrules and the cueball squirted badly when english was applied.
Dick

What exactly is buck horn? Is that a generic term used for all male deer, or is there a specific kind of deer that can only be called that? Thanks in advance!

 

[DEGAMO88]

Antlers are the best joint material imo.
They don't crack like ivory.
They hit great as evidenced by the popularity of Hagan and Zylr cues.
They do take a lot of work to prepare. Kinda dangerous too as you have to cut them on bandsaw really carefully.
There are several species of course. The ones I have, I'd rather keep private.
They are expensive already. Kinda disheartening too when you drill them and some show some diseases so they're only good for joint protectors.
Cutting and turning them round is a lot of work and some skill. Without cuemaker Kerry Zeiler teaching me how to cut them and turn them, I'll have no clue how to do it.
The marrow on them cannot be more 5/8 in diameter if you want to thread them.
To thread them requires good tooling.
Bill Hagan made excellent hitting cues. He used different species for collars, buttcaps and ferrules. To this day, Hagan Cues command top dollar.
Hagan cue were known for great hit and low deflection. I think Dick ran into one with a really heavy antler ferrule. If you use the tips of antlers as ferrules, you can leave them capped and thin enough to be light. They are very very strong.
They do come in different colors or shades. I'm happy with the ones I have b/c they are not too wild looking.
White-tail is prolly the most popular and the cheapest.
Their powder/dust btw is toxic. Very stinky too.
They take a lot of work to make imo hence the unpopularity. Much easier to use phenolic or ivory. Ivory commands more dollar too.

Thanks for your opinion Joey. As far as diseased antlers go, could you explain why they can only be used for joint protectors? Is it because they're cracked or too brittle? Thanks in advance!

 

[jazznpool]

I've had moose antler ferrules (uncapped of course) from Ned Morris that were nearly as white and clean as ivory without bleaching. They are relatively light and I like how they play. If the white, clean moose horn ferrules were easy to obtain I'd prefer them to ivory hands down. It does take a lot of work to machine them into a ferrule though and some of them have veins of grey or amber that can get too wild for my taste. Moose antler does polish nice and stay clean. I'm not sure about finding pieces large enough and suitable for joints unless it was just a sleeve.

Martin

I love the hit of the ivory joint on my cue, but I want to venture into something new like deer antler for the next cue I'm having built. I want something that hits as hard as ivory, but I'm not sure of the differences between the materials out there. What kind of joints have you used in the cues that you've built besides ivory? What are the differences between moose, mule deer, axis deer, or elk antlers (or any other deer for that matter) when making a joint? Preferences? Recommendations? Thanks in advance!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Thanks for your opinion Joey. As far as diseased antlers go, could you explain why they can only be used for joint protectors? Is it because they're cracked or too brittle? Thanks in advance!

Here's a diseased one.
I can still fill it up with epoxy and use it for j/p.
Can't cheat and use it for a collar even though the epoxy will very likely hold ( golf club epoxy ) anyway. Just not right thing to do.

 

[rhncue]

What exactly is buck horn? Is that a generic term used for all male deer, or is there a specific kind of deer that can only be called that? Thanks in advance!

Buck horn usually refers to White tail or mule deer antlers and the tines are used for ferrules. The shanks are very pithy and is not good for much unless you can get a very large set where the walls may be thick enough. Joints and butt caps have traditionally been made of Indian Stag horns that are mostly solid but that material has become hard to get as now it is a protected specia (spelling?). Some cue makers I have heard are using Moose caps and antlers but I have never tried.
Dick

 

[rhncue]

I made a ferrule from an antler once. It is very hard to get them cut up and then getting them centered in the lathe is no picnic either. I guess an independent 4 jaw chuck would have made it a bit easier.


I agree, it smells really bad. The toxicity is something I did not know about, thanks for sharing that.

Tracy

Tracey, when I need to turn anything that is not concentric ( ivory chunks, antlers, square wood and so on ) I don't use the chuck for mounting. I mark the center of both ends and drill a 1/32 or 1/16" shallow hole on the marks. I have a little jig I made up with a spring loaded center and a driving ring around it. I then mount this in my chuck and put the material between the two centers ( the spring center and tailstock live center ) and when the material is pushed down to the drive ring I turn as normal. Very simple and very quick.
Dick

 

[Mase]

I love the hit of the ivory joint on my cue, but I want to venture into something new like deer antler for the next cue I'm having built. I want something that hits as hard as ivory, but I'm not sure of the differences between the materials out there. What kind of joints have you used in the cues that you've built besides ivory? What are the differences between moose, mule deer, axis deer, or elk antlers (or any other deer for that matter) when making a joint? Preferences? Recommendations? Thanks in advance!

I've used Moose and Deer. The moose is white and grey and big enought to make butt caps, joints or ferrules. I prefer the deer as it is whiter and I think denser but you have to get a big buck to make a butt cap out of it. I have not had any problems with either of them cracking.