Any Vintage Joss Experts?

Agree with everything said above, especially with the overlap in materials with dates.

Probably the reason the mid 70s or so cues are so hard to identify for exact year is that there was a difference in cut-off points with the standard wraps and the standard bumpers. They generally stopped using Cortland wrap somewhere around 1973 to 1974, and they stopped using the brown KU bumpers in 1976, creating a bit of difficulty in identification. This was no doubt due to ease of availability, though a few spools of Cortland lingered for those who wanted it, and knew to ask.

Also agree with Travis, there's not a quality difference based on an earlier vintage, in fact, later examples were probably more refined. But Joss is a strange example, isn't it. Unlike some other cuemakers, it seems that the earlier the better. I chalk it up to a couple reasons. One, there's a chance both Janes and Stroud built the cue, for that matter, Tim Scruggs as well. Also, the iconic earlier Joss cues had plenty of the flat-face ivory joint cues with the rounded 3/8 pin. The only other cuemaker that I was aware of doing that same thing at that time was Bert Schrager. Others doing ivory joints, such as Gus S, were primarily doing piloted joints. So that's another strong identifying feature of the earlier Joss cues.

There you have it. Though later, more refined examples of some cuemakers are more desirable, it seems that with Joss, the earlier, the better, at least for collectors. Sort of like the Mustang, no?

All the best,
WW
 
Thanks for everyone's expertise. One small detail on the bumper. The bumper protrudes on the inside and fits into the groove in the weight bolt. Maybe common to KU bumpers, don't really know. Really enjoying hearing from everyone.
 
Thanks for everyone's expertise. One small detail on the bumper. The bumper protrudes on the inside and fits into the groove in the weight bolt. Maybe common to KU bumpers, don't really know. Really enjoying hearing from everyone.



Most likely that's just age. It has been screwed down on that weight bolt a long time and gets molded to the contour of it.




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I have seen multiple Joss cues with writing under the wrap. Also have seen purple heart handles under the wrap.

There was also a period where they began marking the collars in white lettering. I have examples from 1982 -1986. The diamond series cues I have seen all have the block lettering.

I believe the gold lettering at the joint began in the late 80's.

A little off topic was the point in the early 80's where the points changed.

if anybody could recommend a good photo sizing app I could post pictures.
 
I agree with this 100%


QUOTE=Chopdoc;5620514]Most likely that's just age. It has been screwed down on that weight bolt a long time and gets molded to the contour of it.




.[/QUOTE]
 
I have seen multiple Joss cues with writing under the wrap. Also have seen purple heart handles under the wrap.

There was also a period where they began marking the collars in white lettering. I have examples from 1982 -1986. The diamond series cues I have seen all have the block lettering.

I believe the gold lettering at the joint began in the late 80's.

A little off topic was the point in the early 80's where the points changed.

if anybody could recommend a good photo sizing app I could post pictures.


You have the BEST collection of white letter JOSS cues out there.

With the points changing, again I think there was overlap. I have, as do you, white letter JOSS cues from 1982. From the Diamond series brochure price list they were making these at least through 1983 with sharp points & stitch ring collars. So it had to be at that time. One thing though, I have never seen a "white letter" JOSS cue with sharp points made in the 80s. Has anyone else?

https://josscues.com/photo-gallery/cue-archives/joss-diamond-series/
 
I have never seen a "white letter" JOSS cue with sharp points made in the 80s. Has anyone else?

Agree, definitely not. When they went to the white letters in the early 80s, that was also when the points became routed, rather than stacked, or inlayed veneers. My earliest viewing of the white lettering and routed points was early 1984, but they could have been doing that a year or so earlier.

All the best,
WW
 
from what I have seen point construction changed after the diamond series. The diamond series were sharp.

The early white letter series had a rounded outside veneer with sharp points inside. 1982 and 1983

Later on in the white letter series the veneers changed again and were all rounded.

I posted a picture in the Joss cues thread in the gallery that shows some of the transition between early white letter and later
 
Agree, definitely not. When they went to the white letters in the early 80s, that was also when the points became routed, rather than stacked, or inlayed veneers. My earliest viewing of the white lettering and routed points was early 1984, but they could have been doing that a year or so earlier.

All the best,
WW

WW

Posted some pics in the gallery thread.

I have not seen a white letter cue with full sharp points.
 
Looks like Bob's script.

So pre Scruggs Cues. Mid 70's.
If Dunk says it believe it. Also the dashes are wrong. Ask Danny maybe.
Nick :)
 
Talked to Dan Janes last week. He said he is 81 and wouldn't be able to identify any old cues. Played the cue last night and it is indeed a spectacular playing cue. Everyone's input is much appreciated.
 
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