anybody shoot with an ash shaft?

evergruven

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after a long layoff
I've realized how good my chinese 8-ball cue feels in my hand
it and my snooker cue (which also has a similar feel)
both apparently possess ash shafts
I've read ash is a stiffer, harder wood
is it possible these cues could actually *feel* "straighter"
as a result of being made of ash?

it must be said that another thing these cues have in common
is that they both have conical tapers..
I do also have a carom cue with a conical taper, but a maple shaft
the balance isn't ideal, but it doesn't feel the way these others do

maybe it's the ash, maybe it's the taper, maybe it's both?
or maybe it's all in my head
can anybody relate to any of this?
 

garczar

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Ash became the de facto wood for snooker cues simply because maple is not common in the UK. I've hit with one ash snooker cue. It was ok is about all i can say.
 

ShootingArts

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Taper and wood

A conical taper gives a stiffer hit than most pro tapers. The longer the pro taper the more it vibrates and flexes. There is a fairly happy medium, a quicker rise than pro which is usually one or two mm per foot, and much slower than an even taper end to end. A faster rise going into a polyarc curve can give a stiff hit without the very fast growth in your bridge.

Ash is also used in baseball bats. When used in bats the impact is of course at right angles to the impact in a cue. When used in a bat the cell walls break down quicker than maple, an ash bat used by a pro player only having a life of a season or two before going "dead".

Do ash shafts go dead too? Is this a good thing or bad thing if they do?

I have moved over to the darkside and have no intention of ever buying another wooden shaft. One reason is no indexing required. Even a good wooden shaft has about three percent difference when oriented with the grain horizontal or vertical. I like being able to forget about that.

I have played with ash, more pingy than maple, at least the few cues I played with.

Hu
 

evergruven

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I dunno..."There's nothin' like a nice piece of hickory"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvhMLHBtUQ8

Is it okay if I play pool with a nice maple shaft?

nice one..hickory worked out there, huh? :thumbup:

A conical taper gives a stiffer hit than most pro tapers. The longer the pro taper the more it vibrates and flexes. There is a fairly happy medium, a quicker rise than pro which is usually one or two mm per foot, and much slower than an even taper end to end. A faster rise going into a polyarc curve can give a stiff hit without the very fast growth in your bridge.

Ash is also used in baseball bats. When used in bats the impact is of course at right angles to the impact in a cue. When used in a bat the cell walls break down quicker than maple, an ash bat used by a pro player only having a life of a season or two before going "dead".

Do ash shafts go dead too? Is this a good thing or bad thing if they do?

I have moved over to the darkside and have no intention of ever buying another wooden shaft. One reason is no indexing required. Even a good wooden shaft has about three percent difference when oriented with the grain horizontal or vertical. I like being able to forget about that.

I have played with ash, more pingy than maple, at least the few cues I played with.

Hu

I dig the cone shape and don't foresee going back to a pro taper
sure that's got something to do with the feeling I like
wondering about the ash thing tho
the "dead" issue is an interesting one
I know snooker players like to hold onto their cues
once they find a good one, that might be it for awhile
by comparison, seems folks here change up their gear more often

by indexing, do you mean the hit changes as the cue is rotated?
cf is definitely the dark side, literally :thumbup:
but enjoy-

and thanks all for the replies-
 

mikemosconi

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I owned a carom cue- probably 1970s or 80s custom made in Europe - conical taper- 56 inch cue- ash shaft- the cue played very, very well. I believe it was made in Portugal or Spain- the name Castelo or Eastelo was inscribed in script on the shaft. I liked the way that shaft played very much.

I also played some Snooker in Canada- no issues with ash shaft Snooker cues either.
 

Geosnooker

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52 years playing Snooker. Ash and Maple cues. I can’t tell any difference.

If any difference less than between two cues of the same wood. Bigger variable between two cues is the general feel, Taper, balance, and especially the tip.

My current cue (14 years) is ash but many in our league play with a Dufferin maple cue. Now and then I drop into the Legion and will grab a maple snooker cue off the rack...after a couple minutes I forget It’s not my cue and play more or less the same. If grabbing a cue, I look at the tip, not the wood.
 
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ShootingArts

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nice one..hickory worked out there, huh? :thumbup:



I dig the cone shape and don't foresee going back to a pro taper
sure that's got something to do with the feeling I like
wondering about the ash thing tho
the "dead" issue is an interesting one
I know snooker players like to hold onto their cues
once they find a good one, that might be it for awhile
by comparison, seems folks here change up their gear more often

by indexing, do you mean the hit changes as the cue is rotated?
cf is definitely the dark side, literally :thumbup:
but enjoy-

and thanks all for the replies-


Yes, indexing is due to the hit of solid maple shafts, especially cheap ones, changing due to where on the grain the major impact is as well as adjusting for warp. I indexed even my straight shafts. A friend that got them as lagniappe when they bought video machines offered me a new Meucci for fifty bucks. Easier to tote than a one piece but that noodle of a shaft definitely responded to indexing! Used to be common for the top side of the cue to already be marked in bars and I scratched a few ferrules myself. As already noted, I usually turned the warp vertical. Sometimes I turneed the best wood into the contact point on the tip.

I can't remember who now but I remember seeing somebody with what looked like a black inlay or splice the length of their shaft. Makes indexing easier and also gives a more precise "sight" to aim with instead of aiming with the whole shaft.

I didn't want to like CF but I hit with a friend's REVO a couple times and the writing was on the wall.

Hu
 

hang-the-9

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Maybe it's how the ones I used were made, but I have not played with an ash snooker cue that felt as smooth as a maple shaft. They all felt like they needed a bit of work with burnishing and some cue clean or something.
 

couldnthinkof01

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Maybe it's how the ones I used were made, but I have not played with an ash snooker cue that felt as smooth as a maple shaft. They all felt like they needed a bit of work with burnishing and some cue clean or something.

I played with one a guy had made for a diviney cue.
You could feel the grain of the wood.
Played very similar to maple.
 
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Bob Jewett

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Maybe it's how the ones I used were made, but I have not played with an ash snooker cue that felt as smooth as a maple shaft. They all felt like they needed a bit of work with burnishing and some cue clean or something.
If you use only an open bridge, the grain/dirt is less noticeable. The snooker shafts of the pros are stained so you can really see the "chevrons" in the grain.

According to a handbook I have, the speed of sound in ash is slightly higher than in maple. Faster is generally better for that characteristic.
 
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Bavafongoul

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In High Plains Drifter.......Clint does say “Nothing like a nice piece of hickory.”
He proceeds to beat up several yahoos using an axe handle in the movie.
 

Bob Jewett

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Here is the speed of sound comparison for maple and ash. The numbers are in meters per second.

CropperCapture[170].jpg

A forest products site points out that this will change due to moisture content and other factors.
 

evergruven

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Here is the speed of sound comparison for maple and ash. The numbers are in meters per second.

View attachment 560616

A forest products site points out that this will change due to moisture content and other factors.

thanks bob
so if the speed of sound is faster through ash
does that means ash is denser than maple?
what implications might a faster sos mean in a pool cue?
 

Bob Jewett

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thanks bob
so if the speed of sound is faster through ash
does that means ash is denser than maple?
what implications might a faster sos mean in a pool cue?
In general a higher sos will mean that there will be better energy transfer from stick to ball.

sos is not directly related to density. There are some pretty good on-line references that even discuss wood. The people who have the most interest in speed of sound in wood are those who make musical instruments. Who would have guessed?:)
 
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Patrick Johnson

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In general a higher sos will mean that there will be better energy transfer from stick to ball.
Is there any way to quantify the transferred energy increase from a 12% sos increase (like between maple and ash)? Say, is it comparable to a hard tip vs. a soft one?

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

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Is there any way to quantify the transferred energy increase from a 12% sos increase (like between maple and ash)? Say, is it comparable to a hard tip vs. a soft one?...
Measuring is probably the simplest way to find the difference. Here is how that might be done, but it would require tip changes and multiple shafts to get a good answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuuSlBMd5Yc Note that different tips seem to give up to 12% change in energy transfer but that is probably from more than a 2:1 change in hardness.

The main consideration is whether the compression (sound waves) of the tip-ball contact have time to get the energy of the stick into the ball. If the waves are too slow or the stick is too long, the far end of the cue can't get its energy into the ball by reflecting the compression waves back to the tip. You want time enough for several round trips of the wave while the tip is on the ball.

Maple already does a pretty good job, so I wouldn't expect a 12% increase in speed to make much difference, kind of like adding 10% to the weight of the cue stick won't get you 10% more ball speed even if you move the stick at the same speed. You're in the region of diminishing returns.

If someone already had the software set up, it is a fairly easy simulation to do. This is a very simple mechanical simulation compared to routine building and car simulations.
 
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