Anyone else think the inter state ivory ban is dumb?

Nikrnic

Member
Makes me wonder if elephant tusks are used for any purpose after it dies of natural causes/old age. Also Mastodon ivory which is typically 20,000 to 100,000+ years old is often bought and traded.
I agree however that it has no needed function with today's man made materials.

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cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Nothing man made plays like Ivory. The interstate trade band most likely will not save one elephant. It was all just a president wanting a feather in his legacy cap.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nothing man made plays like Ivory. The interstate trade band most likely will not save one elephant. It was all just a president wanting a feather in his legacy cap.
Ivory ferrule are easy to keep clean. They're also really heavy and make the cb squirt like all get out. I like Tomahawk as far as modern stuff goes.
 

Geosnookery

Well-known member
I have tried ivorin, ivorine III, elforyn, LBM, melamine, and paper based micarta. None had the same effect as ivory ferrules or joints for me.
Thanks for responding garczar.
I’m the reverse. Playing for 52 years and own an extensive cue collection. I can’t tell any significant difference and, If there is one, no way to isolate the variable. Did you try all those ferrules on the same cue with the same tip?

How did not using ivory diminish your game? I’m a good but not great player but can’t say the ferrule material has ever raised ir lowered my game. A speck of chalk on the table would have more Impact.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are sources of ivory other than elephant, particularly the relative small specimens required for pool cues.

And there are legal sources that are not harvested.
Elk, for example. Not their antlers, but the two canine teeth. Although too small for ferrules, they could be used for inlays.

A few artisans use Elk ivories for jewelry. A nice token for the hunting widow.
 

Toxictom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nothing man made plays like Ivory. The interstate trade band most likely will not save one elephant. It was all just a president wanting a feather in his legacy cap.

It wasn’t just a president trying to stick a feather in his cap. It was countries all over the world banding together trying to save magnificent animals from extinction. It is a worldwide ban and the interstate ban is logical fallout from that.

Poaching walrus for ivory is a thing in Alaska and has been forever. Pretty easy party money for Alaskan natives who can still slay them. They are supposed to eat them, and many do, but the poachers leave them to rot on the beach after hacking off the tusks. I know this because I found one once. QqAnd like Africa, Alaska is so vast and uninhabited it’s easy to do without getting caught. Hopefully the law will help save a few of them. Walrus and other marine mammals need all the protection we can give them because the sea ice they depend on is rapidly disappearing.

When used for something like a ferrule does it have to be elephant ivory or does it matter?
 

wagdad

Yup, I'm that Guy.
Silver Member
I’m the reverse. Playing for 52 years and own an extensive cue collection. I can’t tell any significant difference and, If there is one, no way to isolate the variable. Did you try all those ferrules on the same cue with the same tip?

How did not using ivory diminish your game? I’m a good but not great player but can’t say the ferrule material has ever raised ir lowered my game. A speck of chalk on the table would have more Impact.
Hi Geo, I have not used each of those materials and tip on the same cue. That's a good question! I think for me, I've become so used to the heavier side of the ivory ferrule that squirt/throw from it has just become part of my game. As far as the diminished part of my game, I have a very loose grip and therefore a fairly soft stroke. So for me, the ivory ferrule and joint helped me to propel the cue ball more effectively without trying to "force" the cueball with power I cant control. I have tried different tips on the same cue with ivory ferrule and joint and solid leather tips seem to get me better results than layered tips. But on the cues I used that had no ivory the medium moori III tips worked the best, tiger Everest is a close second. I replaced kamui black, navigator blue, and ultra skin tips almost immediately. They felt like shock absorbers to me. A good example, a friend of mine had never played with a cue with ivory joint/ferrule combo. So I let him use my titlist conversion with a piloted 5/16x14 joint and both shafts had ivory ferrules. He noticed immediately that he could lightly finesse shots in pockets and still have shape for his next shots much easier than any of his custom cues. He bought it 2 weeks later and refuses to sell it!
Thanks for the inquiry.
 

wagdad

Yup, I'm that Guy.
Silver Member
yes, stupid unless you are an elephant getting shot and killed and your tusks cut off and your body left to rot in the dirt.
Hi maha, I am %100 pro elephant life! I'm referring to the ivory that was confiscated many decades ago and is considered legal for sale/pre ban. I hate the thought of a elephant getting hacked up for its teeth to make a ball or rod. Those poachers in africa that made the biggest dent in the elephant population had millions of pounds of ivory going to asia simply for sculpture. The stuff here in the U.S. was made legal AFTER that butchery took place. So why make it illegal now? That's more of what the argument revolves around.
Thanks for commenting.
 

9ballscorpion

Active member
Hope that 'distinct hit' is worth the possible fines. Ernie at Gina almost went to prison 'cause of this. Look, a lot the pre-ban stuff is gone. Proving what one has or has sold is legal is nearly impossible. Get used to a new distinct hit. Piano players got used to 'a new feel'.

Yeah, because he knowingly attempted to hide Ivory from US Customs, in order to get a cue with large chunks of Ivory to be shipped to an overseas buyer.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just curious if any of the cue makers and cue buyers think this latest ban of ivory products is dumb? I personally don't care for ivory inlays, but I do prefer ivory ferrules and joints, flat faced to be specific. I believe it was a cue seller put it in good terms. If the ivory is purchased thru legal channels and is of preban age, it cuts down on the poaching aspect of ivory harvesting. I think it's just a dumb ban for state to state sales.
Banning ‘endangered species’ materials on new products makes sense to me, but restrictions on the traffic of old items IS dumb.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It wasn’t just a president trying to stick a feather in his cap. It was countries all over the world banding together trying to save magnificent animals from extinction. It is a worldwide ban and the interstate ban is logical fallout from that.

Poaching walrus for ivory is a thing in Alaska and has been forever. Pretty easy party money for Alaskan natives who can still slay them. They are supposed to eat them, and many do, but the poachers leave them to rot on the beach after hacking off the tusks. I know this because I found one once. QqAnd like Africa, Alaska is so vast and uninhabited it’s easy to do without getting caught. Hopefully the law will help save a few of them. Walrus and other marine mammals need all the protection we can give them because the sea ice they depend on is rapidly disappearing.

When used for something like a ferrule does it have to be elephant ivory or does it matter?
There were already very strict laws on the book against importing African elephant ivory. This 2016 ruling was not the world coming together. It just hurt law abiding citizens from using ivory that was imported before 1990 like they had been doing. I stick by my legacy cap feather comment. The 2016 ruling raised the limit on elephants a wealthy American can go over to Africa and kill for trophy hunting from one to two elephants per year. They can still legally bring those tusks back for their trophy rooms. Those tusks are worth only a fraction of what those hunters pay for the permit to kill the elephant. The bits of tusks you see in American pool cues are from old trophy tusks pre 1990 ban that got passed on after the death of the hunters. Tusks are still being imported by trophy hunters and their limit got doubled. But just like those legally imported after the 1990 ban they can never be sold or cut up. What about people who bought pre ban ivory legally before 2016, but can now not sell that product across state lines? How is that fair?
And with the legal limit on Americans trophy hunting for elephants doubled, are you still so sure this was a big great world coming together to save the elephant thing?
To answer your question. There might be other ivories that play similar for ferrules, but I have not tried them all.
 
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jayman

Hi Mom!
Silver Member
Any and all pre ban ivory should be able to go any where on earth. If anyone is caught selling or transporting banned ivory then they should be investigated, and if it is found to be true and provable then charges should be filed and a prosecution for illegal activity should commence.
Obama had tons of ivory destroyed driving up demand and prices making things even worse for the elephants. Some common sense would go a long way with pre ban and post ban materials of most any sort. Hi, I'm with the Government, I'm here to help. Ha Ha that happens!
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think that is true too. Every shaft that I have ever played with that had an Ivory ferrule on it, has hit pretty amazing, I thought.
I understand that old-time carom players also claimed the same thing about ivory balls. I know the best sounding acoustic guitars were made with Brazilian rosewood, and I was once addicted to tortoise shell guitar picks. The list goes on re: organic materials we have had to learn to do without. At least resin balls are immune to cracking, plastic picks seldom break, and luthiers still turn out very fine instruments made with more common grades of hardwood. When they get that time machine up & running though, I would be first in line.
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
Nothing man made plays like Ivory. The interstate trade band most likely will not save one elephant. It was all just a president wanting a feather in his legacy cap.
BS most people don't play with ivory, they just show it off. As far as a feather, I sure don't like people killing elephants especially since there is no real purpose to it. It's almost always an incredibly sad loss when an elephant dies.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You know when the dad tells the teenage girl not to date that boy but it just makes her want him more?

I’m not a teenage girl.
 
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