Anyone else think the inter state ivory ban is dumb?

David in FL

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If ivory came from “inanimate objects”, it wouldn’t be an issue. The only reason that ivory wasn’t illegal 50 or 100 years ago is because there were more elephants and less people. You’re still trying to use the “my ivory is good” argument.
Ok. Concentrate. Answer the question....

An elephant dies of natural causes. The ivory is subsequently harvested and documented as having been so responsibly. Do you object to it being used by humans for anything?
 

MJB

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Ok. Concentrate. Answer the question....

An elephant dies of natural causes. The ivory is subsequently harvested and documented as having been so responsibly. Do you object to it being used by humans for anything?
Ok, I’ll play along....sure, if ivory was only ever used from animals that died naturally, I would have no problem with it.

Now hit me with some magical false equivalence logic.
 

cueman

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BS most people don't play with ivory, they just show it off. As far as a feather, I sure don't like people killing elephants especially since there is no real purpose to it. It's almost always an incredibly sad loss when an elephant dies.
You say BS. So can you tell me what plays like ivory? Those with joints and ferrules do play with ivory.
 

David in FL

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Ok, I’ll play along....sure, if ivory was only ever used from animals that died naturally, I would have no problem with it.

Now hit me with some magical false equivalence logic.
Don’t have one.

I think we agree. A ban on all ivory is unreasonable. What needs to be managed/addressed is the illegal harvesting of ivory.
 

MJB

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Don’t have one.

I think we agree. A ban on all ivory is unreasonable. What needs to be managed/addressed is the illegal harvesting of ivory.
NOPE. I said I’d be in favor of ivory if it was all taken naturally. And since it isn’t because of poachers, I’m in favor of NONE of it being used. And if a guy is telling you that his ivory is from a “natural causes” animal, he’s probably full of shit.

So none of your ivory is good ivory.
 

MJB

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You say BS. So can you tell me what plays like ivory? Those with joints and ferrules do play with ivory.
Fun story....I bought my old Tascarella back after a years of regret for selling it. After I got it back, I sent it to Pete to have the ivory ferrules changed to melamine. And much to my surprise (not really) it feels just the same with either ferrule type.
 

David in FL

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NOPE. I said I’d be in favor of ivory if it was all taken naturally. And since it isn’t because of poachers, I’m in favor of NONE of it being used. And if a guy is telling you that his ivory is from a “natural causes” animal, he’s probably full of shit.

So none of your ivory is good ivory.

Some is bad, so all is bad.

Got it.

I had hopes for common sense. I remain disappointed.
 

DynoDan

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Ok. Concentrate. Answer the question....

An elephant dies of natural causes. The ivory is subsequently harvested and documented as having been so responsibly. Do you object to it being used by humans for anything?
I think the theory is: if no one could ever legally utilize it, then the confusion surrounding it’s source would disappear, and thus make regulation simpler.
It‘s not like it’s really an essential material that has no acceptable substitute, like opium for instance (though synthetic chemical pain killers do exist, you will notice morphine is still given when you show up at the local ER with a heart attack) which the gov. would otherwise have banned completely long ago. If you own an antique item that incorporates ivory, it should thus be obvious it is old, and ‘I’ think having to present the paperwork to prove THAT ‘is‘ stupid.
 

cueman

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Fun story....I bought my old Tascarella back after a years of regret for selling it. After I got it back, I sent it to Pete to have the ivory ferrules changed to melamine. And much to my surprise (not really) it feels just the same with either ferrule type.
I used to have sharp enough ears and sensitivity in my bridge hand and stroke hand to feel the differences between just about all the different types of ferrules. At almost 60 I am less sure I could tell the difference in all of them now.
 

David in FL

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I used to have sharp enough ears and sensitivity in my bridge hand and stroke hand to feel the differences between just about all the different types of ferrules. At almost 60 I am less sure I could tell the difference in all of them now.
I’m 62. I couldn’t tell the difference between ivory and plastic.

My only dog in this fight is common sense. But, as is often the case, it’s sadly lacking…
 
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MJB

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I’m 62. I couldn’t tell the difference between ivory and plastic.

my only dog in this fight is common sense. Sadly, as is often the case, it’s sadly lacking…
Florida boomer preaching about common sense. That's a good one! 🤣 Let me guess, anything that hasn't stayed the way it was since the good ol' days is probably "lacking common sense"?
 

jimmyco

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Yes elephants are thriving in some areas and causing problems for farmers. But here’s the problem with your “Conservation 101”....poachers don’t apply for permits and responsibly cull over-populated areas. So, try again.
Elephants are not only thriving in areas, they are exceeding the carrying capacities of their habitat, particularly their dry season habitat.
The consequences are far reaching, from starvation of young do to non-lactating mothers to other species that rely on the same habitat which has been decimated.

Conservation 101. It has no place for emotion.
 

David in FL

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Florida boomer preaching about common sense. That's a good one! 🤣 Let me guess, anything that hasn't stayed the way it was since the good ol' days is probably "lacking common sense"?
Nope.

But someone who can’t differentiate between a material that is legally and responsibly sourced and one that is poached, should be ignored as someone who‘s clearly, well, a moron. Sorry.
 

HNTFSH

Birds, Bass & Bottoms
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Nope.

But someone who can’t differentiate between a material that is legally and responsibly sourced and one that is poached, should be ignored as someone who‘s clearly, well, a moron. Sorry.
Spoken like a good Boomer. (y) 😅
 

chefjeff

No sides, only players
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Florida boomer preaching about common sense. That's a good one! 🤣 Let me guess, anything that hasn't stayed the way it was since the good ol' days is probably "lacking common sense"?

David is trying to help you learn about basic economics and what banning a thing does, vs. outlawing human actions. Reading some Mises might help your understanding.

He may be an old fart, but he's smart. A guy oughta look into what he says.


Jeff Livingston
 

chefjeff

No sides, only players
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IOW, if we farmed elephants for ivory there would be plenty of elephants and ivory.
I assume you're asking me?

YES.

If elephants were PRIVATELY OWNED, the owners would do what? The same thing that the owners of cattle and hogs do: exploit them for maximum profits. Farming to extinction would kill those profits. Animal husbandry and all that.


Jeff Livingston
 

book collector

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Just curious if any of the cue makers and cue buyers think this latest ban of ivory products is dumb? I personally don't care for ivory inlays, but I do prefer ivory ferrules and joints, flat faced to be specific. I believe it was a cue seller put it in good terms. If the ivory is purchased thru legal channels and is of preban age, it cuts down on the poaching aspect of ivory harvesting. I think it's just a dumb ban for state to state sales.
If you are uber rich, it won't affect you, they have a different set of rules and laws. Now if you are just Fred from Kentucky, you got a problem Sonny Jim
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
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Just curious if any of the cue makers and cue buyers think this latest ban of ivory products is dumb? I personally don't care for ivory inlays, but I do prefer ivory ferrules and joints, flat faced to be specific. I believe it was a cue seller put it in good terms. If the ivory is purchased thru legal channels and is of preban age, it cuts down on the poaching aspect of ivory harvesting. I think it's just a dumb ban for state to state sales.
I do have a solution for the problem........ cut the tusks off once they get to a certain length and replace them with carbon fiber implants. That way there is no incentive for the poachers to kill them cause nobody wants carbon fiber.!
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
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I have three cues and I have no idea if they have ivory. I don't disagree with the ban but cues built pre-ban should be grandfathered. If the leftists ban the internal combustion engine I'm sure it will only apply to new cars.
 
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