Anyone For 5 Pins?

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THE SILENCER

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i have alway been an open minded cuesport type of guy. i enjoy the different types of cuesports available. however in certain parts of the world, different cuesports are enjoyed that a guy like me in america, can't get access to, and can only read, or hear about. in south america, i'm told they play a different version of snooker. also a different version of 5 pins. in russia they have something called "russian snooker" a different form of snooker? they also have a game called americana that features a 12 foot table with tiny pockets and balls the size of grapefruits that have to be "squeezed" into the pockets! in the u.k. the have british 8-ball, what's the difference? in scotland they play "crash" snooker without the reds. and in italy bar table pool is as big as baseball in america! in europe they play a form of billiards called balkline billiards, and in england they play british billiards, a form of scratching for a score, what the british refer to as an in-off. shouldn't there be a billiards network showcasing all of the different sports, are we really this close minded of a world, where 9-ball is the "only" cuesport that exists??????? when we say bustamante beat archer 11-9 we always think "hey, they mean 9-ball" can't we stop that? here is a sport, i'd love to see on vhs video tape, if anyone knows where i could get a tape of this cuesport, that could play on american vcr equipment, thanks. it's called 5 pins, played in itlay, this is the most unique form of carom, you'd ever want to see! played on the world's best built tables, they usually weigh 10 times more than a well built pool table! and cost $30,000! the table is built like a brick shit house to accomadtate the world's thickest slate. the table 5x10 foot, has little pins, 5 of them set up in an x pattern in the middle of the table. 3 balls are on the table, 2 for use, 1 just to get in the way! the game's object is to carom your object ball into the middle pin only, score the most amount of points, and leave the white safe! the game is unique in several ways, first the cues used are monsters! 28 oz.!!!!! you never get to shoot again! you make a shot, and weather succesfull or not, you sit down! so each shot is extreme offense AND defense! i was told top pros in italy, make as much as top snooker pros in the u.k.! anyhow, i'd love to see this on the billiards channel, but until then i'll settle for the videocassette------ 5 pins anyone?
 
There is an Italian film available in the States with subtitles. I think its called the Billiard Player. It is about a young champion in this 5 pin billiard game and they show some exciting shots of the game played.
 
Bernie,

There is a group of Russian men that come into one of the pool rooms I play out of that play a Russian game. It is played on the 12ft snooker table with balls that just barely fit in the pocket. All of the balls are white with numbers and the cue ball is marroon. I have no idea how it is played but I see them marking points just like snooker.

As for being close minded in the US, I think that statement is wrong. We have the opportunity to play every game. Someone just has to research it. I have been lucky enough to play out of a room with people who know many different games. I learned the American and English rules of snooker. I learned the majority of games played on a billiard table. It just depends on the room. It would be great if everyone had the opportunity to learn every game.

Sarah
 
hi silencer. i know very well italian 5 pins, of course. it has some positive qualities but also many things that made me choose to play only pool.
1. tables. It's true, 5 pins tables are the world's best built and most expensive ones. they weight a lot and they have electrically produced heat to save them from humidity and make the cloth faster.
2. cues. the cues are much heavier than pool cues, and wood is rarely used to build them. anyway, i prefer pool cues...
3. players earnings. yes, the top pros in italy make a lot of money, even if i don't think they reach snooker pros in uk.
4. the players make one shot each, and they never sit down. the target for all shots is to score points (with all pins, not only the middle one, or hitting the red ball, worth 3 or 4 points, depending if u hit it with your cueball or your object ball, which is your opponent's cb) and to leave a safe position for your opponent's shot, possibly leaving the pins between white and yellow ball.
5. it's a repetitive game, if you watch it for the first time you may like it, but after a while you'll realize that it's always the same four-five shot repeated and, of course, played perfectly. no comparison, imho, with the variety and fantasy of all pool games.
6. mental game. it's a totally different approach, because you don't have time to sit and watch your opponent play for a long time.
7. from what i've seen, there's much more sharking in pool...
8. here in italy, 5 pins (or 9 pins) is the most played billards game, also for the money involved in it, but fortunately young people are now starting to appreciate more pool and a lot of pool rooms have been recently opened.
9. what do you mean with bar boxes here as big as baseball in the us?
10. if i'd hear of any tape for american vcr, i'll post here.
here's the url of italian federation of 5 pins, there's a pool section too, but there are a few players and the main pool federation is another.
www.fibis.it

nothing compares to pool! tom
 
The Russian game is called 'Pyramids'. The pockets are cut like a pool table (flat jaws), but the balls just barely fit into the pockets. Maybe a couple of pieces of paper will fit along with the ball. The balls are larger, maybe like billiard balls. All of the balls are white and they have little numbers on them. I learned how to play when I was in Kiev at the World Artisitc Championship in 2003. Mike Massey came in 5th in the Pyramid World Championships and there was a table in the place where we had the tournament. He showed me the game and it was fun. On each shot, you can use any ball as the cue ball and any ball as the object ball. All you need to do is either make the object ball, or make the cue ball carom off the object ball into a pocket. The scoring is similar to 1-pocket. First person to get 8 balls wins. There are some subtle rules that I don't remember and there are variations, but that is the gist of it.

The pockets are so tight, that you need to use english to make the balls. Sometimes, you need to hit the balls really hard to compress the rail by the pocket to allow it to go in. There is a website somewhere about this game and it gives information about some of the top players. In fact, I think I remember seeing a link to it in an older post.

Andy
 
I can tell you a little about uk 8-ball, since that's what I play :)

We use 2" object balls, reds and yellows, ideally on a 7' x 3.5' - though most bars have 6' x 3', and sometimes they use 8' x 4' for TV events, as the smaller tables look pretty lame to an audience who usually watch snooker.

The 'pro' game (most have day jobs, I think) grew out of the pub game - which uses a 1 and 7/8" cue ball, so that the table mechanism can seperate the white from the colours, and return the white to the top of the table.
So the pro game uses the smaller white too.

We have 2 rival governing bodies, and 3 sets of rules (though lots of local leagues have their own variations on top of those too).
All the rules are loosely based around having 2 shots after a foul, and you can sometimes also take ball in hand, but only in a restricted area at the top of the table.

I believe the game has a status similar to soccer in the US (or at least, how soccer used to be) - lots of people play, but not very many like to watch it.

If anyone's interested :)
 
yobagua said:
There is an Italian film available in the States with subtitles. I think its called the Billiard Player. It is about a young champion in this 5 pin billiard game and they show some exciting shots of the game played.
Click to expand...
Anyone know how to get hold of this film, preferably on DVD to escape the incompatable formats as I live in England?
 
Pin said:
I can tell you a little about uk 8-ball, since that's what I play :)

We use 2" object balls, reds and yellows, ideally on a 7' x 3.5' - though most bars have 6' x 3', and sometimes they use 8' x 4' for TV events, as the smaller tables look pretty lame to an audience who usually watch snooker.

The 'pro' game (most have day jobs, I think) grew out of the pub game - which uses a 1 and 7/8" cue ball, so that the table mechanism can seperate the white from the colours, and return the white to the top of the table.
So the pro game uses the smaller white too.

We have 2 rival governing bodies, and 3 sets of rules (though lots of local leagues have their own variations on top of those too).
All the rules are loosely based around having 2 shots after a foul, and you can sometimes also take ball in hand, but only in a restricted area at the top of the table.

I believe the game has a status similar to soccer in the US (or at least, how soccer used to be) - lots of people play, but not very many like to watch it.

If anyone's interested :)
Click to expand...

Is that the kind of 8-ball Sarah Ellerby played?
By the way you and Silencer ought to go ahead and sign up on AZB, lots of Brits here. Or have you already?:)

Terry
 
There are loads of different cue-sports out there. The ones I know of/about are:

AMERICAN 9 BALL/8 BALL POOL
SNOOKER - Played throughout the world but UK based.
ENGLISH BILLIARDS - Played throughout the world but mainly in places with a British link - Australia, New Zealand, Malta, Ireland, India, Thailand, Canada etc. Played on the same table as snooker (12ft x 6ft). 3 balls, red, white & yellow. Scoring involves pots, cannons (caroms), and in-offs (scratching).
ENGLISH 8 BALL POOL - Usually played on a 7ft x 4ft table, but other variations exist. 3 different sets of rules exist also. Big pub game in UK.
BAR BILLIARDS - Played on a small table with holes in the slate for scoring, and mushrooms in front of each hole. All shots played from one end so the table can fit in to a small corner of a pub. Very big in The Channel Islands (Jersey & Guernsey).
CAROM - Many variations, 3 cushion being the most well known. Varying table sizes but I think 10ft is the standard, certainly in Europe.
RUSSIAN PYRAMIDS - Also Moscow Pyramids, which I think is a variation. Tables 12ft, balls HUGE, pockets TINY! Played with 15 white cue balls. You can use any ball as a cue ball, the object being to pot or go in-off 7 balls to win the game (I think!). One variation also has numbered balls, 1 - 15.
BAULKLINE BILLIARDS - Again I think several variations exist, although I don't know much about this game. I think it's a form of carom where the table is divided up into sections, a limited amount of scoring permitted in each section.
5 PIN BILLIARDS - Almost exclusively played in Italy. Don't know much about this game, but I would like to!

I'm sure there must be several more to add to that list as well. Anyone?

There is a World governing body for ALL Cue-Sports. It's the World Confederation of Billiard Sports and is an umbrella organization trying to get Olympic status for cue-sports.

There is an interesting website with some useful info on various cue-sports, it's The Online Guide to Traditional Games

If you are after videos then have a look at The Billiards & Snooker Archive. This guy has 9 videos of old snooker/pool/carom/billiards for sale. They are VHS pal format, but he is also doing them on DVD now so should be ok to play in US. I can't remember seeing any 5 pin billiards on there though, but VERY interesting videos anyway! Mostly black & white footage.

Wouldn't it be great if someone did a video about the history of ALL the cue-sports?!!!
 
sarahrousey said:
Bernie,

There is a group of Russian men that come into one of the pool rooms I play out of that play a Russian game. It is played on the 12ft snooker table with balls that just barely fit in the pocket. All of the balls are white with numbers and the cue ball is marroon. I have no idea how it is played but I see them marking points just like snooker.

As for being close minded in the US, I think that statement is wrong. We have the opportunity to play every game. Someone just has to research it. I have been lucky enough to play out of a room with people who know many different games. I learned the American and English rules of snooker. I learned the majority of games played on a billiard table. It just depends on the room. It would be great if everyone had the opportunity to learn every game.

Sarah
Click to expand...

Hey Sarah,

Good to talk to you again. I was just wondering how you knew Silencer is Bernie's name? Is that Bernie Friend, aka 8Ball Bernie? If so, why would he need another name? :confused: Sorry to get off topic, but I am new to this forum stuff, even though I have been on the internet since it started (and have the books and computers to prove it, lol). So by not having an underlined link to their names, that means they haven't signed up yet? How could they post then? I am confused.

Hope you have a wonderful new year and good luck with the tour.

Linda

Lucky Phil - There are other American pool games played - 3 ball, 7 ball, 10 ball, cutthroat, golf, banks, one pocket, Horse, scratch or carom pool, rotation, straight pool, etc.
 
Linda,

Good to hear from you. Congrats on the IPT and everything. To answer your question, I have no idea how I knew his name was Bernie. This post is from a long time ago. As I'm sitting here trying to think if I had a psychic moment or not...I am thinking that I didn't. I think Silencer posted something in my forum and signed his name Bernie. Either that or it was in a private message. Sorry I don't have a clear answer for you.

Have a good New Year.

Sarah
 
yobagua said:
There is an Italian film available in the States with subtitles. I think its called the Billiard Player. It is about a young champion in this 5 pin billiard game and they show some exciting shots of the game played.
Click to expand...

It's called "The Pool Hustler." It is actually pretty good. The two players have great chemisty I think.

If I remember right the Bridget Nielson pool film Bye Bye Baby, has it in there too, but not as much.
 
On the Aramith website they also sell balls for games called YOSTUDAMA, BOCETTA, POCKER and BUMPER POOL. I don't know what these games are either???

YOSTUDAMA looks like some kind of billiards game played with 4 balls instead of the usual 3. Anyone know what this could be?
 
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