MisspentYouth
Banned
I'm from Massachusetts originally. We used to play Razzle all the time. I've been all over and no one I've asked has ever heard of it. Is this just a N.E. game?
Anyone play Razzle?
- Thread starter MisspentYouth
- Start date
I've seen it/played it in the Binghamton, NY area. It's a variation of a game called Chicago. I know it's played in the NE as you said and heard of it being played other places under other names. The version played in the Binghamton area only needs the lowest numbered ball to be moved by contact with another ball, not hit in rotation. I've never heard of being played that way anywhere else.
I'm a bit foggy on the rules, it's been over 16 years since I've seen it played. Basically, a partners game, with whoever makes certain balls partners with whoever makes other certain balls. The 1 and 5 and, I think the 8 and some other ball. Played and scored like Rotation with 61 points being "Game", points for five other money balls, also. I think 1, 5, 8. 10 and 15. Usually played with four players, it was also possible to get a "loner" with one player making all the money balls and 61 points. That's close, I think.
The game was often banned in The Pocket Billiard Lounge {now Ball Busters Billiards} because of fierce arguments about whether the low ball moved or not. I only played it a few times. Money balls were so much per ball and game {61} was another or the same amount as the money balls. Fouls were a forfeit and put in the ball tray to pay the table time.
I'm a bit foggy on the rules, it's been over 16 years since I've seen it played. Basically, a partners game, with whoever makes certain balls partners with whoever makes other certain balls. The 1 and 5 and, I think the 8 and some other ball. Played and scored like Rotation with 61 points being "Game", points for five other money balls, also. I think 1, 5, 8. 10 and 15. Usually played with four players, it was also possible to get a "loner" with one player making all the money balls and 61 points. That's close, I think.
The game was often banned in The Pocket Billiard Lounge {now Ball Busters Billiards} because of fierce arguments about whether the low ball moved or not. I only played it a few times. Money balls were so much per ball and game {61} was another or the same amount as the money balls. Fouls were a forfeit and put in the ball tray to pay the table time.
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Here is a copy and paste I posted quite a while ago. This version of rotation, IMO is the absolute most fun you can have on a pool table. (keeping it clean of course) The most fun game.
I tried to make these instructions complete, so save these instructions if you think you may try it, the game is addicting!
Chicago style game we call 1 & 3. There are lots of incarnations of this Chicago type game, but I think this one is the best of all.
It can be played with two, three, or four players. I suppose you could play with more, in a cut-throat style but its more fun as I will explain, this way, With 4 players it's the best game going.
We used to have 2 or 3 tables going all the time with players waiting in the wings for someone to drop out of one of the 4 handed games so they can jump in.
The house usually charged the table out at the 2 player rate back then, now lots of places are 10 bucks for the afternoon. Try this game, its great fun.
All 15 balls are racked. I sure wish I had the patience to put an image up for you guys but .... the balls are racked as follows.
1 on top, 5 and 8 directly behind it, 15 in the middle, 10 & 12 directly behind the 15, the 3 ball in the center last row, and 2 & 4 on the back corners. The order of the other balls doesn't matter.
EACH game starts with NO PARTNERS. You can pull pills for the initial order of play.
There are 7 points to be made in total for each game.
They are ... the 3 - 5- 8 - 10 -12 -15 ball, and "Game". (which is the cumulative total of the ball's face value. This counts as one point, not necessarily 61 if you play with multiple players)
Now... the 1 ball is called the partner ball. While its not worth a point, in and of itself, it does assure the person making the 1 ball of getting at least one point (we call it "a way") in the game, because they are partnered automatically with the person making lowest numbered money ball. This leaves (of course) the other two players as partners as well.
If the same person who makes the 1 also makes the 3, then partners go to the next money ball (the 5) Again, if that same person makes the 5 it goes on to the next one, and so on.
If the same person who makes the 1 ball makes all the money balls, he goes alone and everyone pays him whatever you assign to the point value of each point.
Once partners are made, you may have to re adjust the order of play so that the partners do not follow each other in the order of the game. So on occasion, someone can skip a turn once partners are made.
Who ever makes the 15 ball in any given game, also breaks the next game, which as I said, restarts fresh, with NO PARTNERS.
The previous partner of the person making the 15 ball racks for the new game and automatically goes third in the new games order. The person who left the 15 ball to be made will go last in the new game, and of course the remaining player goes second.
Each time there is a "NO HIT" you must pay the kitty one point. This can go to pay the table time at the end of the session, or if there isn't any time, you split the kitty at the end of the night. ( Or, if you are playing at a friend's house and they are providing snacks, the no hits can go to him or her to help pay the snacks.
You do not have to hit a rail to make a good hit, you can jump the cue ball off the table so long as a hit is made it is ok and you don't have to pay the kitty a no hit.
Any scratch in a pocket or off the table is cue ball in hand behind the head string for the incoming player. This does not count simple"no hits", when there is a no hit, the CB stays where it is.
We play no safeties allowed. In other words you have to try to make a hit.
If the cue ball scratches, and the next numbered ball is behind the headstring, it is spotted.
Example of payouts..........
Now, if one team makes 4 points, and the other team makes 3 in a given game, then each player on the team with 3 points, pays each of the 2 players on the other team "one way" or one point. This is determined by subtracting the difference.
If one team makes all the points, then the other two players each pay 7 ways to the two winners.
If one player makes all 7 points himself, there are no partners and everyone pays that player 7 points each. ( a nice little pay day there)
***A tip for playing 3 persons, (which is cut throat, no partners, and the 1 ball means nothing but one point toward game point) that makes figuring out the payout easy.
Initially it may seem like you need a calculator to see who pays who how much .. but it is very easy to figure.
Simply make believe you are starting each game down 7 points .... each time you make a pay ball, you go UP 3 points. (sounds crazy, I know)
So, if you make 2 pay balls in a game (thats six points) you started out down 7, you now end up paying one way. As the other two players do the same type math, the payouts take care of themselves.
That sound complicated for 3 handed games, but it really isn't. It is the easiest way to track three handed payouts.
I hope some of you try this with your friends, you will get addicted to it. Lots of laughs, lots of fun!
I tried to make these instructions complete, so save these instructions if you think you may try it, the game is addicting!
Chicago style game we call 1 & 3. There are lots of incarnations of this Chicago type game, but I think this one is the best of all.
It can be played with two, three, or four players. I suppose you could play with more, in a cut-throat style but its more fun as I will explain, this way, With 4 players it's the best game going.
We used to have 2 or 3 tables going all the time with players waiting in the wings for someone to drop out of one of the 4 handed games so they can jump in.
The house usually charged the table out at the 2 player rate back then, now lots of places are 10 bucks for the afternoon. Try this game, its great fun.
All 15 balls are racked. I sure wish I had the patience to put an image up for you guys but .... the balls are racked as follows.
1 on top, 5 and 8 directly behind it, 15 in the middle, 10 & 12 directly behind the 15, the 3 ball in the center last row, and 2 & 4 on the back corners. The order of the other balls doesn't matter.
EACH game starts with NO PARTNERS. You can pull pills for the initial order of play.
There are 7 points to be made in total for each game.
They are ... the 3 - 5- 8 - 10 -12 -15 ball, and "Game". (which is the cumulative total of the ball's face value. This counts as one point, not necessarily 61 if you play with multiple players)
Now... the 1 ball is called the partner ball. While its not worth a point, in and of itself, it does assure the person making the 1 ball of getting at least one point (we call it "a way") in the game, because they are partnered automatically with the person making lowest numbered money ball. This leaves (of course) the other two players as partners as well.
If the same person who makes the 1 also makes the 3, then partners go to the next money ball (the 5) Again, if that same person makes the 5 it goes on to the next one, and so on.
If the same person who makes the 1 ball makes all the money balls, he goes alone and everyone pays him whatever you assign to the point value of each point.
Once partners are made, you may have to re adjust the order of play so that the partners do not follow each other in the order of the game. So on occasion, someone can skip a turn once partners are made.
Who ever makes the 15 ball in any given game, also breaks the next game, which as I said, restarts fresh, with NO PARTNERS.
The previous partner of the person making the 15 ball racks for the new game and automatically goes third in the new games order. The person who left the 15 ball to be made will go last in the new game, and of course the remaining player goes second.
Each time there is a "NO HIT" you must pay the kitty one point. This can go to pay the table time at the end of the session, or if there isn't any time, you split the kitty at the end of the night. ( Or, if you are playing at a friend's house and they are providing snacks, the no hits can go to him or her to help pay the snacks.
You do not have to hit a rail to make a good hit, you can jump the cue ball off the table so long as a hit is made it is ok and you don't have to pay the kitty a no hit.
Any scratch in a pocket or off the table is cue ball in hand behind the head string for the incoming player. This does not count simple"no hits", when there is a no hit, the CB stays where it is.
We play no safeties allowed. In other words you have to try to make a hit.
If the cue ball scratches, and the next numbered ball is behind the headstring, it is spotted.
Example of payouts..........
Now, if one team makes 4 points, and the other team makes 3 in a given game, then each player on the team with 3 points, pays each of the 2 players on the other team "one way" or one point. This is determined by subtracting the difference.
If one team makes all the points, then the other two players each pay 7 ways to the two winners.
If one player makes all 7 points himself, there are no partners and everyone pays that player 7 points each. ( a nice little pay day there)
***A tip for playing 3 persons, (which is cut throat, no partners, and the 1 ball means nothing but one point toward game point) that makes figuring out the payout easy.
Initially it may seem like you need a calculator to see who pays who how much .. but it is very easy to figure.
Simply make believe you are starting each game down 7 points .... each time you make a pay ball, you go UP 3 points. (sounds crazy, I know)
So, if you make 2 pay balls in a game (thats six points) you started out down 7, you now end up paying one way. As the other two players do the same type math, the payouts take care of themselves.
That sound complicated for 3 handed games, but it really isn't. It is the easiest way to track three handed payouts.
I hope some of you try this with your friends, you will get addicted to it. Lots of laughs, lots of fun!
Freakin razzle...lol
I lost more in that damn game. Always had "pro" razzle players who ride the shit out of the balls on every shot.
Actually, it is fun and I miss playing it.
It was very popular in the NYC area during the sixties. The room I played in while a kid had at least one game going all weekend long, every weekend, with players waiting to get in. Great fun game, one can also learn to carom and move the cue a little playing razzle.
J
J
Great in depth post.
This is exactly what we called OddBall in upstate NY.
Cool game for sure !
TheThaiger
Banned
Razzle is terrible for your eyesight (be grateful if you don't understand this).
I have not seen that game played in many years even in MA. Last and only time was in Mr Billiards in Framingham, probably 20 years ago. I've heard some people a few times ask about playing it, but that room was the only one that they had a regular game going. I used to hang around Mr Billiards, Boston Billiards and Brighton Billiards a lot, Mr Billiards was the only room I've seen razzle played in of those. Fun game, reminds me a bit of 3 ball.
Don't want to dispute 3andstop's version but his version is a little different from how we used to play. This game was played by everyone around the Lawrence, Ma. area. Don't know if it originated there but it wouldn't surprise me.
It's 15 ball rotation, but as someone mentioned, you don't have to hit the ball that's up, you just have to move it. doesn't matter how, it just has to move.
There are 7 money balls plus game, usually called ways. Game is determined by points. 61 or more is game or the highest total pts. among everyone.
Money balls are 1,5,8,9,10,13 & 15.
You can play partners (we played that 1 & 9 were partners). If the same person has the 1&9 then whoever gets the 10 is their partner, and so on. If one person gets them all then they go alone. Or you can play cutthroat with any # of people.
Usually draw for break order & continue breaking in that order regardless of what happens in previous game.
Balls are racked 1 on spot, xx behind that, x in the middle, xx behind that, final x behind those. x=money ball. Don't have to be in any particular order, just that they're all in the middle row. 2&3 on the back corners.
As stated, pocket scratches or ball off table is CBIH behind headstring & up ball is spotted if behind line. No hit is also a scratch. Have to attempt to make a hit, no deliberate safes. We played scratches the following way. Each player (or team, once partners are established) keeps track of their scratches, either on beads or counters. Whoever gets game (total points) gets scratch money. IE: If team A gets game then their scratches are void & they collect for however many scratches team B had. Scratch amount is normally the same that you are playing for each way.
God do I miss this game. It might be the best gambling game for pool ever devised. If you're shooting good, go alone a few times, you can make a lot of money very quickly. It's much better & more fun than a 9B ring game. We also used to play double for the run. So if you're playing $2. a way and run the rack you collect $48. in a 4 person game.
If you decide to try it here's a little tip. In partners it's easy to figure out who owes what but in 3,4 or 5 man cutthroat it gets a little complicated. So just do this. Take the # of people in the game (let's say 5) multiply that by the # of ways you make then subtract 8 from that #. Say you make 3 ways: 3x5=15-8=7. You make $7. if you're playing for $1. a way. Make only 1x5=5-8=(3). You owe $3. Scratches are added on top.
Awesome game, try it,you'll like it.
It's 15 ball rotation, but as someone mentioned, you don't have to hit the ball that's up, you just have to move it. doesn't matter how, it just has to move.
There are 7 money balls plus game, usually called ways. Game is determined by points. 61 or more is game or the highest total pts. among everyone.
Money balls are 1,5,8,9,10,13 & 15.
You can play partners (we played that 1 & 9 were partners). If the same person has the 1&9 then whoever gets the 10 is their partner, and so on. If one person gets them all then they go alone. Or you can play cutthroat with any # of people.
Usually draw for break order & continue breaking in that order regardless of what happens in previous game.
Balls are racked 1 on spot, xx behind that, x in the middle, xx behind that, final x behind those. x=money ball. Don't have to be in any particular order, just that they're all in the middle row. 2&3 on the back corners.
As stated, pocket scratches or ball off table is CBIH behind headstring & up ball is spotted if behind line. No hit is also a scratch. Have to attempt to make a hit, no deliberate safes. We played scratches the following way. Each player (or team, once partners are established) keeps track of their scratches, either on beads or counters. Whoever gets game (total points) gets scratch money. IE: If team A gets game then their scratches are void & they collect for however many scratches team B had. Scratch amount is normally the same that you are playing for each way.
God do I miss this game. It might be the best gambling game for pool ever devised. If you're shooting good, go alone a few times, you can make a lot of money very quickly. It's much better & more fun than a 9B ring game. We also used to play double for the run. So if you're playing $2. a way and run the rack you collect $48. in a 4 person game.
If you decide to try it here's a little tip. In partners it's easy to figure out who owes what but in 3,4 or 5 man cutthroat it gets a little complicated. So just do this. Take the # of people in the game (let's say 5) multiply that by the # of ways you make then subtract 8 from that #. Say you make 3 ways: 3x5=15-8=7. You make $7. if you're playing for $1. a way. Make only 1x5=5-8=(3). You owe $3. Scratches are added on top.
Awesome game, try it,you'll like it.
I remember being introduced to the game by a local when I lived in Medford, MA (that's "Meh-fah" for all of you Massholes = ) back in the mid 90's. He was the only one that knew all of the rules so I felt like I was playing TEGWAR sometimes.
Taek
Taek
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Looks like good game. The unfortunate truth, i am having hard time finding one player to play with any game when i want to play, let alone four. It reminds me of KENO pool game; some AZBers members might remember the KENO board in the back room of old Champion in Arlington some 30 years back (on Glebe Rd and Columbia pike) lots of $$$ spent there!!
Are you from Somerville? I used to work at Good Times Emporium at the Assembly Square Mall.
Taek
Winter Hill. Somerville is a changed place now.