APA, BCA, TAP: How much do they earn and are worth??

[Scott Lee]

iba7467...Wow, that seems really small, and not much in the way of money to send teams to Vegas. The national average is $1 per player, per week, to go into the 'travel fund' ($5 per team/week). Even if the league only played 25 weeks a year (and most play 40+), in your area, that would still be better than $30K available. It sounds like your L.O. is not only 'shorting' on the teams sent, but also stingy when doling out funds ($450/player for airfare and hotel is pretty small, imo). That's a shame!

My teams were paid an average of $4000 in 1993...15 years ago, when travel was a lot cheaper. I'd be interested in hearing from other APA members that went to Vegas for the team event, what the average amount, per team, is given, for attending the national tournament (do not include 'last place' prize money...only funds allocated by the local operator).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The area sent 7 teams. Eight ball 4 teams, nine ball 3 teams. $3500 per team.

 

[Koop]

My teams were paid an average of $4000 in 1993...15 years ago, when travel was a lot cheaper. I'd be interested in hearing from other APA members that went to Vegas for the team event, what the average amount, per team, is given, for attending the national tournament (do not include 'last place' prize money...only funds allocated by the local operator).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hi Scott,

We were just there in August and received $4800 for the team so $600 a piece. Not horrible but not great either. Luckily my wife is on the team as well so we got $1200 total.

Regards,
Koop

 

[mongoose-]

It's pretty clear you have already formed your opinion of APA, and knowing my salary probably isn't going to change it, so I think I'll save that info for someone who can still be saved. But, thanks for asking.

I don't want to start a pi**ing contest or hijack this thread with negative comments. I do agree with some of these posts that the APA has contributed a lot as far as bringing new players into the sport over the years. I do not however agree with the method which they do it. Such as recruiting grandma as a 2 so a team can be feilded. The APA is a business, that is what it is. As far as saving me save the cult league speel for new recruits... I been around this game too long for that. Good luck to you in the future with your leagues.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Growth

I just have to stick my nose in here. The APA sells a product, if you like it buy it, if you don't then buy another product. It really is that simple. I play in the APA as well as other leagues. I can't say that my experience as a player is the best in the APA. It really does get boring watching sub-par pool.

Certainly, I more often play better players in the other leagues I play. One of the guys from this league said to me, "it is where all the professional players play" (this statement kind of makes me chuckle). Now this guy does not play well but he wants to associate himself with his perception of that crowd is my guess. Really, you can just look at rosters and pretty much have a idea of where each team is going to place in the money. Because there are a few teams that are stacked it really just makes everyone else just a contributor to the jackpot. This is a league that has a decreasing population in the last ten years.

I do support growth in a pool league I think it is good for pool. This is not why I play APA. I play at a high skill level and do get to play other high skill level players when the opportunity arises. But, sometimes I get the sacrificial lamb and sometimes they get a little lucky or I get a little lazy and that can make a win for them. They are very happy about that win but that works both ways and that provides for some "wild card" things to happen. If you can handle someone getting lucky and honestly shake their hand for their win I think it can be fun whether you are winning or losing.

The APA has several ideals that promote growth.

It allows for the lesser player to have a shot at beating the better player. You are going to get a better draw of the general pool playing population with this. If you are going to run a business does this not make sense?

The 23 rule works. Yes, teams have to split up and recruit, but, without that you do not have growth.

The APA has several products and formats to choose from all with a national event.
8 ball team
9 Ball team
8 Ball singles
9 Ball singles
Jack and Jill
Scotch Doubles
Masters (3 person team) Love to get this going on a weekly basis, (are you listening APA LOs!)

In our area
Grand Prix tournaments
Christmas tournaments for captains and co-captains

I really do not care what my LOs make in fact I hope they do well. They have certainly worked very hard and have had to make sacrifices for the last ten years to get something established in my area. I buy the product because I like it. When I decide I no longer like the product I will spend my money elsewhere. It is just that simple.

Argue all you want because your LO made your 2 a 3 but that will do you no good. If you don't like it take your bat and go home but do yourself a favor and don't spend the rest of your life complaining about it!

 

[dooziexx]

Hi Scott,

We were just there in August and received $4800 for the team so $600 a piece. Not horrible but not great either. Luckily my wife is on the team as well so we got $1200 total.

Regards,
Koop

Hi Koop,
Did you guys get $4800 per team on top on the flight and hotel?? If thats the case, thats a hell lot more than what my team received. My team got $800 cash per team with flight and hotel paid for....
-Erik

 

[Koop]

Hi Koop,
Did you guys get $4800 per team on top on the flight and hotel?? If thats the case, thats a hell lot more than what my team received. My team got $800 cash per team with flight and hotel paid for....
-Erik

Hey Erik,

No, that was $4800 to make all the arrangements. We found a decent deal at the Sahara but it only covered flight and hotel. Anything else was out of pocket. Actually, your deal sounds better than ours.

Regards,
Koop

 

[rope_one]

In our area the numbers I heard floating around at regionals was $5000 per team from the teams that won.

 

[dooziexx]

Hey Erik,

No, that was $4800 to make all the arrangements. We found a decent deal at the Sahara but it only covered flight and hotel. Anything else was out of pocket. Actually, your deal sounds better than ours.

Regards,
Koop

Koop,
Seeing that my lo has about 500 teams and sends only 9 to vegas.. You'd think we get more.. BTW, how did you guys do? We went 1-2 had to play 19rule the whole time.
-Erik

 

[Koop]

Koop,
Seeing that my lo has about 500 teams and sends only 9 to vegas.. You'd think we get more.. BTW, how did you guys do? We went 1-2 had to play 19rule the whole time.
-Erik

Damn, you would think so huh. The only thing that burned my ass a little was that he gave the losing teams in the states $500 per team. I still think that money should have gone to the winning team, regardless if we won or not.

We did really well. Took 33rd and got beat by a team that got DQ'd the next round. You should have seen the 6 I played. The guy didn't miss a single shot the entire set. The first game I broke and ran, second game I break dry and he runds out, third game he breaks dry and I run out, 4th game I break, start on a run and miss. That was it for me . Oh well, we didn't complain because I just think it's in poor taste to do it but we defintiely could have gone further.

 

[stikapos]

Damn, you would think so huh. The only thing that burned my ass a little was that he gave the losing teams in the states $500 per team. I still think that money should have gone to the winning team, regardless if we won or not.

We did really well. Took 33rd and got beat by a team that got DQ'd the next round. You should have seen the 6 I played. The guy didn't miss a single shot the entire set. The first game I broke and ran, second game I break dry and he runds out, third game he breaks dry and I run out, 4th game I break, start on a run and miss. That was it for me . Oh well, we didn't complain because I just think it's in poor taste to do it but we defintiely could have gone further.

Fried would be a better term. Lets see. You got $350 for the team for winning when you got to Vegas and $500 for staying home when you lost. Who got the better deal ???? Yep. The folks who got beat. If you went to Vegas and lost two and out, you made less money than those who didn't make it. What an UNBELIVABLE deal! Boy, our LO really stepped up to the plate on that one!

tim

 

[Bigkahuna]

Money

Fried would be a better term. Lets see. You got $350 for the team for winning when you got to Vegas and $500 for staying home when you lost. Who got the better deal ???? Yep. The folks who got beat. If you went to Vegas and lost two and out, you made less money than those who didn't make it. What an UNBELIVABLE deal! Boy, our LO really stepped up to the plate on that one!

tim

I think APA LOs are audited by the national office from time to time.

We do not receive any monies at the events that get us to Vegas but that does not mean the money is not distributed elsewhere in playoffs or tricups etc. Perhaps the LOs are given the ability to run their franchise with some rein as to how to get to the national qualifiers and where the monies is disbursed along the way.

I don't care about the money anyhow as the amount I pay to play doesn't amount to more than a couple of beers and the amount i get back if we win doesn't amount to more than a couple of bags of groceries. I do run some pretty good teams so I guess I have brought home my fair share of the groceries.

 

[stikapos]

The issue is, would you rather try to eek out a trip to Vegas for a week on $600 with a $350 kicker or stay home and take the $500 ?? Let me go on record. I'll stay home with the $500 next time. I'll tell you one thing. The Riv doesn't give two poops about the APA. We're just a convention that helps that old rathole stave off ch. 11 for another year. If we went to Reno, both the town and the casinos would bend over backwards for the APA. Unfortunately, the airfares would be much more expensive and I wonder if the place could handle almost 6000 players.

tim

 

[Bigkahuna]

Vegas

The issue is, would you rather try to eek out a trip to Vegas for a week on $600 with a $350 kicker or stay home and take the $500 ?? Let me go on record. I'll stay home with the $500 next time. I'll tell you one thing. The Riv doesn't give two poops about the APA. We're just a convention that helps that old rathole stave off ch. 11 for another year. If we went to Reno, both the town and the casinos would bend over backwards for the APA. Unfortunately, the airfares would be much more expensive and I wonder if the place could handle almost 6000 players.

tim

In my area they just send us airfare and hotel included. Yes, it is the Riviera but everything is right there. I also think it is something like 10000 people there for the team national event.

 

[PoolGrapevine]

ive been told the APA generates gross profits of $17 million to $20 million per year.

does this sound right?

The BCA Leagues were selling for $400,000 but sold for closer to $200,000

TAP and VNEA havent heard anything

 

[PROG8R]

Oh, he is that far off. It's not even remotely close. And you can't compare the value someone puts on their blood, sweat and tears to their personal income.

Income is not related to equity in your business. If the McDonalds down the street sells for a million dollars, does that mean that the owner of that McDonalds was making a million dollars a year? Absolutely not.

When you sell your business (regardless of what kind of business you sell), you are attaching blood, sweat and tears, sentimental value, your own future earnings along with future value of said business.

No, but if they are selling them for 3.15$ per then he brought in quite a bit. We both know that is the only thing they sold. MCds franchaises are hard to come by and quite pricey.

Not everyone puts blood, sweat and tears above $$ you give me the right number and I don't care what it took to build it, it is yours.

 

[daphish1]

My team didn't go to vegas but i was told by the teams that did go they received $400 per player. So if you had a player who couldn't go the LO didn't distribute the extra money to the team.

 

[ronhudson]

The BCA Leagues were selling for $400,000 but sold for closer to $200,000

TAP and VNEA havent heard anything

The BCA league system is not at all like the APA structure. A local BCA league is not a franchise, so there's no way to compare them to any other league like APA or TAP, which is a franchise, or even to other local BCA leagues. Each league is a local creation that has been sanctioned and it's worth what it's been built into and whatever someone is willing to pay. There's no territory involved either. The only thing that makes a BCA league different from any of thousands of local bar leagues is that it's sanctioned by BCAPL.