APA Down East Rant

PoloBob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First off, I would like to say how proud I am of my teammates for shooting as well as we did throughout the year, especially this weekend in our LTC's.

This year, we only had 18 teams participating in the 8-Ball LTC's. I wish we would have had a larger turn out during the course of the summer, fall, and spring sessions to better fill out the 32-team "single-modified elimination" bracket that the APA uses, but our area simply couldn't keep an interest for whatever reasons.

As day 3 progresses, we manage to work our way in to the semi-finals coming back from the loser's side after a disappointing first round loss in day 1. Our quarterfinal match pitted us against another team from our area who year in and year out have a very successful team. They sport a line up of mid range handicaps who are typically very strong for their handicaps, but by no means are they under ranked. We somehow were able to earn a decision after the fourth match, leading 7-3. The matches were much closer than the box score indicates. Nearly every rack coming down to the last couple of balls.

We were extremely pleased with our hard earned victory, but the round started off rather unpleasantly. At the next table over, a SL4 had just been hemmed up pretty tightly by a SL5. The SL4 had the cue ball resting on the foot spot while being nearly completely surrounded within half an inch by both her and her opponent's balls, almost forming 3/4 of a circle. The SL4 had no timeouts left and was struggling to decide which ball to shoot. After she finally makes up her mind, nearing the 1 minute mark on the clock, she gets down on her shot hastily in frustration and her opponent calls for an observer. The SL5 made two quick attempts to notify the shooter's scorekeeper that he wished for someone to watch the hit bc of how close the balls were, but his efforts went blatantly ignored. The SL5, who is sitting in his designated chair behind the table of play, calls to the shooter as she is down on her shot "Wait!" That is when all Hell breaks loose. The scorekeeper,who is also team captain, of the shooter throws his chair back from the area where he was keeping score and starts screaming "it's godd*mmed sharking to talk to my player while she is down on her m*ther f*cking shot!" By the time he finished his statement, he was already in the opponent's face. Mind you, this is an area where cussing and swearing during regular league play isn't tolerated. It is a strict policy, but there for good reason. The tournament falls silent. All of the matches had come to a halt in curiosity of what the ramifications would be for such an incident, especially considering who made the outburst. This man is loud to begin with and roughly 6'5", so it is an instant scene, plus he has a short temper and has had multiple "formal warnings".

The League Manager approaches... Everyone just knew a sportsmanship violation was about to be issued. And one was. To the SL5 who called for an official, who's last words were literally "wait!" This sent shock throughout the venue. And what was more astounding was that the insubordinate scorekeeper didn't have a word said to him, not even a "come get me to handle the issue next time".

The League Manager realizes that the room is hushed, with all eyes focused on the drama at hand. He makes a low key announcement for the tournament to continue on without hesitation. Still amazed, no one was very quick to get back to the table and resume play. Feeling a sense of urgency and importance, the League Manager decides that he should address the entire tournament.

He announces a handful of key points. First, to call for an observer, Team A should let the scorekeeper for Team B know of their wishes, and that that player's scorekeeper or captain will inform the shooter that an official is needed. Fair enough in my book. Second, sportsmanship. Cussing, swearing, being loud, disruptive, sharking, lying, etc. anything of the sort would not be tolerated. In my opinion, great, it makes for a smooth and non-confrontational event. We're right on track for a quick summary of the guidelines. Third, he reminds the crowd about the greens fees due after each match. Each team is to pay $ 0.50 per rack. Nothing I can argue with, I think every place should charge greens for their tables to be used. Fourth, general protocol. Declaring players, reminding players not to try to grab a smoke between racks, and to try to limit visits to the restroom while in a match. Awesome, a nice friendly reminder. Back to business as usual.

The quarterfinal round comes to a close without any other major interruptions and we progress to the semi's.

Winning that last round almost felt as if we had won the entire tournament itself! We just beat a team that matches up very well with us. every rack had to be clawed and earned. What a sense of accomplishment!

The team we met in the semi's was from a neighboring division, so we hadn't played them before, but they lived in our area so most of us were familiar with each other. Their team was comprised of two SL5's and the remainder roster was filled with SL3's. We knew the majority of our players would end up having to give up a little weight, so we had to focus on a few key match ups.

My team won the toss and elected odds. We posted a SL3 out blind as a feeler and drew another SL3. We won the first match hill-hill (2-1). They posted out a SL3 to which we responded with another SL3. We anticipated this match to be a coin flip, but a bonus if we won it. We ended up losing hill-hill to an 8-ball that shot out running the foot rail into the corner after being rattled in the jaws of the other corner pocket. The team score now sits tied at 3-3 going in to the third match. In the third, we decided to post a SL5 to see if we could draw out one of their 5's, and if we do, we're favored to win that heads up bout. The bait worked. They fired back with one of their 5's. No one on my team knew this player personally, but we knew of him. When they declared him for their post, we couldn't locate his name on the scoresheet. Everyone knew this player to go by the name of "T-Bone," however, that didn't match any of the players' names on the roster. Red flags. I tell their score keeper to hold on a minute, that I needed to speak with one of the directors regarding said player.

About 4 minutes later I returned with our League Operator to address the issue. They had already lagged, started the match, broke strong and wide, and T-Bone had ran out. By the time we got to the scoresheets, they were already into the 2nd rack. I thought to myself "no biggie", the guy has a solid break and if the table is open I would expect him to get out. As I am walking back to our area with the LO, i briefly run down the situation and ask if I am allowed to check players's names during a match. Being such a small area, this had never presented itself during tournament play before bc there aren't many strangers. The LO informs me that I can ask to have anyone posted for a match supply a valid state or gov't issued ID and APA Membership Card at any time. He glances over the scoresheets and in a matter-of-fact tone says that he doesn't recognize that particular player's name. I said "Ok, thank you," and he walks away. By now they are halfway through the 2nd rack. As not to interrupt, I wait until the end of that rack to ask our opponent to furnish his ID and APA card just so I can verify his identity. He obliges and goes to his cue case. Roughly 6 minutes pass and he is still rifling through his bag. I ask one of my players to go get the LO again so I can have him adjust the clock for time spent looking for his ID's. The League Manager comes to our table and asks me whats going on. I tell him that I had only known of the player under his alias rather than the name printed on the sheet, so I just wanted to double check. All fine and dandy. I ask if he can amend the starting times on our scoresheets to reflect the stoppage while waiting to check an ID. His reply was "Nah, I wouldn't worry about it. A couple of minutes isn't going to make a difference." A little hesitant, I accept his verdict. The LO tells us to continue on with the match and solve it afterwards so not to interrupt the others. Sounds reasonable. Glad he's taking the time to work this out, given his typical effort towards anything.

My player falls apart. He began to second guess every shot, started choosing incorrect patterns, and just couldn't seem to get it back together. He lost 1-4 (0-2). He had plenty of opportunities but couldn't capitalize. T-Bone made the shots when it counted. No worries, we've been here plenty of times before. We still have two matches left to go with the score now at (3-5).

I ask T-Bone to find his cards so we can move on.

Searching...

Waiting....

The player in question has since left the pool room and went out to his car to search for his ID. 19 minutes have elapsed during the course of this trek. I decide to seek out an official to address the clock being run down and the possibility that this player doesn't have the credentials required to participate in the event. Now the LO and LM are waiting at my table for T-Bone to come back in. Our two teams began to think he may have left. About 5 more minutes pass before he finally returns.

What's this? Empty handed? It cannot be.

As he is walking from the front of the pool hall to the rear, where the tournament is being held, I start reflecting back to the Captain's Meetings, Players' Meetings, and the LTC's Meetings, citing the words of our operator that "a player is ineligible to compete if he does not have his ID and APA card." The rest of the tournament has slowed to get a peak at what is causing the hold up of our match and see what is going on. Word had spread that something was amiss with his paperwork.

T-Bone approaches me, reaches in his pocket, and pulls out a card. It has a name listed. It also had a headshot of himself on it. Along with a company name. And that's it....

He handed me an old, wrinkled up business card!

I am at a loss for words. I knew it was a joke.

Boy, had I been fooled. He honestly expected to pass that off as a valid ID! I asked him if he had a state or gov't issued photo ID. His response, *lip smack* "awh nah man i aint got one of those." I'm shocked. I said ok, what about the APA card you got in the mail? He replied *lip smack* "awh nah man I keep dat at my girl's place."

No valid ID. No APA Card.

According to APA, that makes him an ineligible player. I inform the LO that the opposing team had posted and played an ineligible player. He says he will handle it and to go ahead and continue the rest of the match.
 
They post a SL4 and we post a SL6. My team takes the first rack. Calm, cool, and collected. We're ready. My 6 breaks and the 8-ball darts towards the side pocket! At the last second an incoming ball blocks the pocket and sends the 8 up to the head rail. It comes to rest about an inch off the head cushion, not quite a diamond and a half towards center. A favorable spread. 3 balls drop and the table is open. No clusters, no tough spots, no anything. One of those racks where its impossible to pick the wrong ball from anywhere. The SL6 begins to run. Approaching his key ball, he accidentally bumps one of his opponent's balls. That contact makes a small cluster and ends up snookering my teammate. Trouble... it's "one ball Hell" now. He kicks, makes a good hit, and fortunately leaves a lot of distance without many options. The SL4 fires at the stack just to open them and ends up potting a ball. No biggie, he got a roll. it's gonna happen. He starts running, and it seems like for every ball he pots, he somehow manages to bump another. Ball after ball. No end in sight. Just get up and shoot. He's sprinting and can't even see the finish line yet. He now has two balls left on the table, and he's almost frozen to one of them, straight in for the corner pocket from about 3/4 diagonally across the table. I call for an observer. The 4 gets a little upset bc he doesnt understand why I am asking for someone to watch the hit. The LM comes over to make the call. The 4 fires straight through it, object and cue ball barreling toward the corner. His ball falls. The cue ball rattles. My player steps toward the table and I remind him to ask if its BIH.

The LM called it good! The half of the room watching our match all gasps! oh well, bad call. Theyre gonna happen. Besides, the cue is hanging in the corner pocket, with my player's ball near a pocket, and the SL4's ball frozen on the foot rail all the way down table. There isnt a good pocket for our opponent to pot his ball, so he ends up just slamming it. 4 rails around the table. dead in. anndddd wait for it.... the cue ball comes to a halt inches away from the 8-ball. straight in. And that, my friends, is the beginning of the end.

My teammate's toast in the morning is going to be dry bc that SL4 took all the jelly!

Every roll, every break out, every lucky kick... it started going downhill fast.

My teammate ended up getting beat 1-3 (0-2), setting the team score at (3-7) and putting the win out of reach for us. I felt bad for him. He just couldnt get anything to go his way no matter what he tried.

During that last match, the LO came up to me and said he just got off the phone with Nationals. If an ineligible player is posted and played, that means the team gets disqualified.

...

That's not what our LO said. He told us that Nationals would accept the business card as a valid ID and that he didnt need an APA card to participate bc they have all the players' information in their databases.

My jaw dropped. I was stunned.

I took a second, recollected myself, and asked the LO to cite in the rulebook the section that covers ineligible players, proper identification, and the like.

His response was "No."

I asked why he wouldn't show me exactly in the rules where that information was discussed and he replied that he had already taken the issue up with Nationals, they told him what to do, and he had gone as far with it as he was going to go and that was going to be the end of it or he would tag us with a sportsmanship violation.

Shocked at the news, my team's captain and co-captain each tried to reach the National office for the next hour and a half making calls while the other semi finals match was finishing up.

I asked our LM if there was anything that I could do and he said no that it was too late bc the match was already over. I reminded him that both him and the LO forced us to continue the match under protest.

We continued to call St. Louis just to try to get confirmation of the ruling at hand, but had no luck. Rings turned to voicemail after voice mail. It soon dawned on us that the National office is closed on Sundays.... Who did our LO speak with?

The poolroom's patrons gathered around to watch the remainder of the other semi-finals match play out. They were well into Match 4 by then, team score at (Team A: 4 - Team B: 5). Two SL6's were battling back and forth. Their match had started just prior to the 4 hour limit to start sudden death. With the match score at 4-3 (Team A leading) Player A is up to break.

He opts to cut break in hopes of getting into a safety battle, but ends up losing the cue ball and kicks open the stack; all on top of a dry break. Player B comes to an open table with solids being wide open but not able to see a good shot at one. Stripes weren't laying bad, they only had one small cluster near the rack to negotiate, and he had an opening shot to reach them. He chooses stripes. The cue ball is laying perfect for a slight back cut from near the side pocket into the corner that would naturally send it into the stack in the center. All he has to do is make this initial ball and he is out.

He takes a little while to gather himself. Approaching the 1 minute mark on the clock, he still hasnt taken his shot yet. Team A points out the clock to the official, who relays the message to Player B. He hastily looks over to Team A, calls time out, and snidely asks "there, ya happy now?! I've got plenty of f*cking time!"

Player A walks over to the ref, lets him know what happened and then returns to his chair. He sits down and Player B disgustedly curls his lip and lets out a "pshh" as if he couldn't believe his opponent would tattle on him for something apparently petty.

The ref, who might I add is the LM, just stands there. No warning, no nothing. Acting like nothing had even happened.

Player B finally gets down on his shot. Checks his alignment. Gives it a few practice strokes. One more back stroke.... and he quickly stands up. Almost as if he was taunting the other player. With a smirk, he gets down again, lines up, and shoots.

He jarred it. I couldn't help but think to myself "that's what you get for being cocky"

No trouble ball in sight now. The table is completely open as Player A steps in to clean up. Easy pickings from here. Stop. Stop. Roll a little. Stop. Roll. He pockets his key ball. No obstructions on the table. He needed a touch more pace though. He comes up a little flat on the 8. With the game ball maybe 20" from the corner pocket, Player A is a bit disappointed that he didnt get straight in from such an easy table, but rather leave himself slight cut. 15 degrees, most. The pocket he marks is huge from here. He pots this black and he sends his team to the finals for the coveted Vegas Trip. Player B is sitting directly in line of the pocket and the shooter. He is forced to watch as all of the effort he and his team invested throughout the year will go to waste.

Does he think back about the snide remark he made at the beginning of the rack? No, that's not who he is. That's not his character. It's not his fault. His other teammates should have played better.

That's not it either.

Perched in his stoop, he can't even look at the table. Holding his cue in his right hand, he stares through Player A. Just watching his eyes...

Player A draws back for his final warm up. He begins to deliver his stroke. And just at that moment, Player B starts to wave his cue like a bell instrument from the 2nd grade. He sharked him!

The shooter is furious and in his rage he exclaims "if you do something like that again im going to take you outside and crack this stick over your head!!"

The ultimate sin! The spectators are in an uproar as Player B runs to the LM screaming that he wants his opponent banned from the league and they have to forfeit their match and such.

What does the ref do? He tells them to go back to their game!

No sportsmanship violation for either, no warning, no nothing! How unreal is that?

Player A went on to lost that match hill-hill making the team score 6-6.

Match 5 was a single rack in Sudden Death that led Team B to the finals of our LTC's.

The team with the ineligible player ended up defeating Team B in the finals to earn the Vegas Trip.

Needless to say, this weekend has left a sour taste in my mouth. After these past 3 days, I can say with confidence that I am ashamed and extremely embarrassed to have been a loyal participant in this area since it was first sanctioned 5 or so years ago. I simply can't enjoy it anymore. It feels like more and more of a burden. Areas like this that allow similar events to occur over and over again are tarnishing our sport.

It's a pity. North of here, Marc with the Raleigh-Durham/Chapel Hill area and south of here, Ewa with the Coastal Carolina area run amazing programs. They're well structured and they still make it fun for people. And then the Down East area has to go and ruin all of our surrounding areas great work.
 
Wow. Nice story. Contact national office asap. They will take action against a LO if they find wrong doing.
Sounds like you did everything right. Dont get discouraged. Some guys are natural born losers and they will eventually get what they deserve.
 
Tell me you did't sign the score sheet and you paid your protest fee. If you signed the paperwork it's pretty much discussion over. If everything was signed and turned in it's indicating that you are in agreement and there is no reason to investigate further, or simply that you are satisfied with the players identity regardless of his lack of documentation. It has been my experience that The APA is pretty inflexible as to the identity rule so I can't imagine that even if your LO was able to reach someone that the national office would have said "sure, you can accept a ratty old business card as true and proper identification".
If everything was signed I doubt that it will make any difference now but the national office should be made aware of what happened. The sportsmanship fouls are subjective, it's an emotional time and a tense situation and those things happen, without a physical altercation or some overt verbal abuse or act it would be difficult to justify a sportsmanship violation for harsh words or dirty looks.
Is your LO fairly new at this? I'm sure they'd like to keep everyone happy, but it sounds like they really don't have much of a clue.
Notifying the national office may not produce much satisfaction for you and on the surface I'm sure you'll get the company line, "we'll look into it" but behind the scenes I'm sure they'll take a little time to educate your LO.
One other thing, when you contact the national office maybe first try contacting them by email, don't mention the situation but ask them simply for the required identification rule and what are acceptable forms of i.d. for your LTC or the NTC. If the response is what I would anticipate it to be you can the contact them again and address the specific situation with their own words. Keep in mind that this will all be cc'd to your LO.
Like I said, I can't imagine that it will change anything at this point, but it's a chance, you know.
 
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Tell me you did't sign the score sheet and you paid your protest fee. If you signed the paperwork it's pretty much discussion over. If everything was signed and turned in it's indicating that you are in agreement and there is no reason to investigate further, or simply that you are satisfied with the players identity regardless of his lack of documentation. It has been my experience that The APA is pretty inflexible as to the identity rule so I can't imagine that even if your LO was able to reach someone that the national office would have said "sure, you can accept a ratty old business card as true and proper identification".
If everything was signed I doubt that it will make any difference now but the national office should be made aware of what happened. The sportsmanship fouls are subjective, it's an emotional time and a tense situation and those things happen, without a physical altercation or some overt verbal abuse or act it would be difficult to justify a sportsmanship violation for harsh words or dirty looks.
Is your LO fairly new at this? I'm sure they'd like to keep everyone happy, but it sounds like they really don't have much of a clue.
Notifying the national office may not produce much satisfaction for you and on the surface I'm sure you'll get the company line, "we'll look into it" but behind the scenes I'm sure they'll take a little time to educate your LO


Yes. And if more then one team complains, more weight will be put on national office to do something. Maybe check with other team captains? It might yeild results. At least keepbit from happening again.
 
About 4 minutes later I returned with our League Operator to address the issue.

19 minutes have elapsed during the course of this trek. I decide to seek out an official to address the clock being run down .

You keep unusually good time, and run a very tight ship.
We have a team captain in our division who signals his scorekeepers when the other player makes a defensive shot.

In the APA I haven't seen much of what you are describing, but in the VNEA I've seen quite a bit.
I absolutely despise teams that slip in players just for the sake of winning a tournament, and it rarely works out them.
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of APA. Not only is the system flawed as a whole, allowing rampant sandbagging, but it's full of league operators such as yours. There are many good league operators, and occasionally the APA has been known to remove a bad one though it's extremely rare. All too often it will take a very long time to get anything done about one and it's usually long after the team's and players in question have been wronged. With their nationals approaching, my guess is, it will be shelved til later this fall. It's just the way of the APA. Sad, but all too often repeated story with them.
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of APA. Not only is the system flawed as a whole, allowing rampant sandbagging, but it's full of league operators such as yours. There are many good league operators, and occasionally the APA has been known to remove a bad one though it's extremely rare. All too often it will take a very long time to get anything done about one and it's usually long after the team's and players in question have been wronged. With their nationals approaching, my guess is, it will be shelved til later this fall. It's just the way of the APA. Sad, but all too often repeated story with them.

there is a ring of truth to your post but at the same time i also think it is some what of an unfair statement when you look at the big picture.

its been stated apa has almost 225,000 members..i believe bcapl is the next largest with aprox. . 60,000 members. tap ....vnea ...and napa have even less. it stands to reason if apa is 4 times as large as bcapl you should hear of 4 times as many issues arising.

what i am saying is you are always going to have one bad apple in every bunch.

lets say for example each league has 1% of an undesirable element. that would mean bcapl has 60 players and apa has 2,200 players that are rule breakers, ass holes ...and nits ..and etc etc. that is not an unrealistic number and looking at it you would think apa has a disproportunate number but in reality the ratio is the same.

then you have some that cause problems in more than 1 league but the brunt of the fall out due to the actions of these players seems to fall on apa according to what i have read on here.

take a couple of years ago. a team was dis qualified at the apa nationals. the apa banned them... made steps to get their money back. fined and put on probation the lo's in that particular area but yet apa still got bashed on here.

mark griffin banned them from bcapl. sam at tap cuaght some flack on here for not banning them. later he banned them and then come on here bashing napa for allowing them to play in its league. i found that comical that he bashed napa for doing the same thing he did.

bottom line is all leagues have unscrulous players and lo's but it seems the quite a few love to jump on the bashing wagon when apa is mentioned but brush it under the rug when the same crap happens in their favorite league.
 
They actually monitor the LO's? For some reason, I have a hard time believing they have ever gotten rid of a LO unless he committed a crime or something that would bring bad press. Especially one that brings in $ and pays the franchise fee.

The thing about is that must people in the APA really don't say anything. Most members are not on this site. And the LO's will play to the members ignorance. It can be frustrating.
 
to the op ...welcome to reality. :grin:

what i mean is welcome to the real world when you higher level tournaments ...in no matter what amatuer league you play in.

when some people get close to reaching that pie in the sky all thoughts of sportsmanship.... fair play ....rules ....etc...etc...are thrown out the window. a guy you may have played 2 or 3 times during the year and was always polite and courteous every time will turn into an ass hole during the ltc's when a trip to vegas is on the line.

lets use me for example....i won't turn into an ass hole but i am all serious bussiness during ltc's.

during regular session....i will disregard an obvious foul from you.....never call for an observer when you shoot....unless you have a known reputation for not calling your fouls....never make you call or mark the pocket on an obvious shot on the 8.


heck i will even let you play over the 23 handicap to avoid you forfeiting a match.

come playoffs all that stuff is thrown out the window when i face you. its strictly by the book with me and i expect the same from you.

oh yea ...marc has his act together as far as i know. he owns the franchise here in memphis also and is here from time to time. jim badger is also an owner and is here full time. they are not perfect but they do a darn good job in my book. heck we have even played on the same team together.
 
Update

I was informed that Player A, who made the threat, was in fact verbally warned by the LM and LO. Just wanted to clarify that little bit.

Members from my team and two other teams from the event have been trying to get in touch with the National office all day, but we end up having to leave messages. I encouraged them to also send an email asking what types of ID's were acceptable for HLTs.

My captain did sign his scoresheet after we lost in the semi-finals, but we also left a description in the "Message" area of what had happened, including that we were forced to play under protest.

Regarding the protest fee of $50, my LO said that bc we had wrote about the protest on the scoresheet that the National office would contact our captain and give him further direction.
 
They actually monitor the LO's? For some reason, I have a hard time believing they have ever gotten rid of a LO unless he committed a crime or something that would bring bad press. Especially one that brings in $ and pays the franchise fee.

The thing about is that must people in the APA really don't say anything. Most members are not on this site. And the LO's will play to the members ignorance. It can be frustrating.

i have never heard of apa getting rid of an lo....but yet i have never heard of another league doing it either.

as i stated above the lo's in that particular area were fined and put on probation for a team that was disqualified in vegas.

i believe the same thing happened to my lo a few years ago when a team from my area was disqualifed at nationals . 2 players on a team were raised during nationals and the team was disqualified from what i remember. all were banned from apa also.
 
It's frustrating, but in truth there is really not much to win. It does become the goal of it all...but if you look at what you are actually winning, it's all pretty stupid (and I am pointing to myself as being stupid from ever getting aggravated with them).
 
I was informed that Player A, who made the threat, was in fact verbally warned by the LM and LO. Just wanted to clarify that little bit.

Members from my team and two other teams from the event have been trying to get in touch with the National office all day, but we end up having to leave messages. I encouraged them to also send an email asking what types of ID's were acceptable for HLTs.

My captain did sign his scoresheet after we lost in the semi-finals, but we also left a description in the "Message" area of what had happened, including that we were forced to play under protest.

Regarding the protest fee of $50, my LO said that bc we had wrote about the protest on the scoresheet that the National office would contact our captain and give him further direction.

i hope it comes to a satisfactory conclusion for you. as i said in my long winded post . play offs seem to bring the worst out in people.

last year my g/f called a time out. i looked over the table and told her to play a safe...which she did succesfully. her opponent to hit a ball...not pocketing any thing but got a lucky roll leaving my g/f hooked. as she turned away from the table seeing my g/f was hooked said....i can do that too *****. it took 2 team mates to calm me down . me and that womans husband who had been friendly towards each other every time we played had a few words. he later apologized for his wifes behaviour but she never did apologize to my g/f. some people are wired that way and mostly i just fade that crap.
 
lorider...There have been a few instances of APA LO's losing their franchise, or being forced to sell to someone else. Most of them involved allegations of theft of league funds. You're correct, though, that it is rare overall for an LO to be forced out.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

i have never heard of apa getting rid of an lo....but yet i have never heard of another league doing it either.

as i stated above the lo's in that particular area were fined and put on probation for a team that was disqualified in vegas.

i believe the same thing happened to my lo a few years ago when a team from my area was disqualifed at nationals . 2 players on a team were raised during nationals and the team was disqualified from what i remember. all were banned from apa also.
 
A lot of truth here. Our lo's wife was upset after a the last match In the finals got ugly afterwards. The details aren't important but she was upset and I told her the same thing. These people are playing for one thing .. Vegas... And when you get this close and it doesn't go well people are going to get upset and egos will get out of controll. It's human nature when adrenaline gets flying. Better get a tougher skin because this won't be the last time I'm sure lol

to the op ...welcome to reality. :grin:

what i mean is welcome to the real world when you higher level tournaments ...in no matter what amatuer league you play in.

when some people get close to reaching that pie in the sky all thoughts of sportsmanship.... fair play ....rules ....etc...etc...are thrown out the window. a guy you may have played 2 or 3 times during the year and was always polite and courteous every time will turn into an ass hole during the ltc's when a trip to vegas is on the line.

lets use me for example....i won't turn into an ass hole but i am all serious bussiness during ltc's.

during regular session....i will disregard an obvious foul from you.....never call for an observer when you shoot....unless you have a known reputation for not calling your fouls....never make you call or mark the pocket on an obvious shot on the 8.


heck i will even let you play over the 23 handicap to avoid you forfeiting a match.

come playoffs all that stuff is thrown out the window when i face you. its strictly by the book with me and i expect the same from you.

oh yea ...marc has his act together as far as i know. he owns the franchise here in memphis also and is here from time to time. jim badger is also an owner and is here full time. they are not perfect but they do a darn good job in my book. heck we have even played on the same team together.
 
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