APA/Fargo cut off?

benjaminwah

benjaminwah

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So my friend just played in the 7/8/9 9 ball APA nationals. He was cruising through the field until he ran into this guy with a 746 Fargo, higher than people who have recently played on the Mosconi Cup team. He had a tight match against him but lost, taking 3rd/4th out of 122 players. 746 Fargo won the event.

You would think an organization like the APA would establish some sort of cut off. I know, I know, it’s based on if they make a living off of pool etc. if that’s the standard is it working?
 
lol... I was waiting for this.

The APA doesn't seem to care about player rankings outside of their own "equalizer" system. So that wildly dominate 746 fargo is merely a 7. No different then any other appropriately rated 7 in the tournament. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest the "equalizer" rating system is somehow inadequate.

How dare you ;)

However I am curious as to your friend's fargo....?
 
rexus31 said:
I know Brian Parks has won several of those events. His Fargo is over 700 but he is a working man, Insurance Agent, I believe. Even thought he is a high rated plater, he's still an amateur.
Click to expand...
Abrin Schaad(sp?) was competing while being a low/mid 700.
 
The_JV said:
lol... I was waiting for this.

The APA doesn't seem to care about player rankings outside of their own "equalizer" system. So that wildly dominate 746 fargo is merely a 7. No different then any other appropriately rated 7 in the tournament. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest the "equalizer" rating system is somehow inadequate.

How dare you ;)

However I am curious as to your friend's fargo....?
Click to expand...

Careful, next thing you know is you get APA Operator coming into the thread, shilling for the shield.

Also, a friend and former teammate won the 6-7 tier and I cannot find him on the Fargo website. I also do not think he has ever played in any event that would give him a rating.

I think the OP is talking about the 8/9 tier where anything is possible. A hypothetical 15 is still an APA 9.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The_JV said:
lol... I was waiting for this.

The APA doesn't seem to care about player rankings outside of their own "equalizer" system. So that wildly dominate 746 fargo is merely a 7. No different then any other appropriately rated 7 in the tournament. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest the "equalizer" rating system is somehow inadequate.

How dare you ;)

However I am curious as to your friend's fargo....?
Click to expand...
The handicapper is a joke to the higher ups. You get the top 10 fargo players (800+) in the world and they are capped out at 7/9 apa (650 fargo). No way in hell am i playing SVB, Gorst and Fuller equally. The equalizer system is more based on their average player of a 5 or 400 fargo. Seeing how many "advanced" players in the world versus the "average" players. The last that i seen about 1% is in the "Advanced" stage.
 
rexus31 said:
Looks like Gary Abood (746) defeated Jason Halpin (639) by about 20 points from what I could gather.

poolplayers.com

2023 APA 9-Ball Shootout Results

Check out the final results of the 2023 9-Ball Shootout!
poolplayers.com poolplayers.com
Click to expand...
I watched the last few racks and Halpin could have taken it. He had an opportunity when Abood scratched on the break, and Halpin only needed about 12 or 13. I bet he's kicking himself today.

In other words, it was pretty close. Closer than you would expect between players with that big a difference in Fargo ratings.
 
Regardless of the players, you would think they would have some cut off. Like it was said above, theoretically a 800 Fargo could play APA.
 
The_JV said:
lol... I was waiting for this.

The APA doesn't seem to care about player rankings outside of their own "equalizer" system. So that wildly dominate 746 fargo is merely a 7. No different then any other appropriately rated 7 in the tournament. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest the "equalizer" rating system is somehow inadequate.

How dare you ;)

However I am curious as to your friend's fargo....?
Click to expand...
My friend has the very best Fargo rate ever. 666
 
I don't think the APA cares about making things fair for the SL 7s and SL 9s because there just aren't enough of them for it to really matter. Or at least, there aren't enough super, super, super 7s and 9s who will just tear through the field to worry about it. But that may be changing, as Abe Schaad won the same event last year at 750 Fargo and now we have another 750 Fargo who won it.

It was funny to see people in the chat saying stuff like "stop whining, if you practice you can beat them." 750 is 100-150 Fargo points out of reach for the average player no matter how dedicated they are to the game. That's what makes it unfair. It's not just that they are significantly better--it's that they play at a level that's literally impossible to reach for 99% of amateur players, and the difference is great enough that your chances of beating them as a "standard" SL 7/9 are almost nil.

Both Abe and Gary are top 40 in America based on Fargo rating. When you have a higher Fargo than people who have played in the Mosconi Cup, you shouldn't be playing in amateur events alongside people who you are nearly 8x better than (i.e., a low 500 Fargo SL 7 or SL 9 vs a 750).
 
I always learned yrs ago when APA was growing, a 600 Fargo rating from the Large cities were Often, completely different than in smaller more rural areas.
Meaning.... a NY APA player with a 575 rating, normally would never lose to a 650 Fargo from an rural area with few APA teams
 
Last edited:
rexus31 said:
I know Brian Parks has won several of those events. His Fargo is over 700 but he is a working man, Insurance Agent, I believe. Even thought he is a high rated plater, he's still an amateur.
Click to expand...

Well there is an issue with Amateur and Pro in the pool world that has been talked about for years. Without a central organization or pro tour to guide anyone as to who is what, the only way to sort this out is simply through skill. Mike Dechaine is certainly Pro level, but you never see him in tournaments, and he has a full-time job. Same for many other "pro" players like Donnie Mills.

Brian has beaten players like Bustamante in tournaments. Thus, is not really suited to play even as a 7/9 in the APA which starts that level at about 550 Fargo. Not only that, but I would also have thought that after winning like 5 of those things someone would have looked at his skill and maybe thought about it a bit.

Look at it this way, a 9 in APA 9 ball can be a 550, or a 700 or higher. That is a 150 point difference, same as if a 9 was plying a 6 (A 550 Fargo 9 vs a 400 Fargo 6). Now imagine an APA 6 or 7 playing vs a 9 even up.

The SBE Amateur Open has a limit of Fargo now, at 720, which I think even that is a bit high for "amateur" play since many 700+ players have taken out pro players in tournaments playing even.
 
Last edited:
Zerksies said:
The handicapper is a joke to the higher ups. You get the top 10 fargo players (800+) in the world and they are capped out at 7/9 apa (650 fargo). No way in hell am i playing SVB, Gorst and Fuller equally. The equalizer system is more based on their average player of a 5 or 400 fargo. Seeing how many "advanced" players in the world versus the "average" players. The last that i seen about 1% is in the "Advanced" stage.
Click to expand...

A player can max out APA and TAP at a much lower rating than 650. I'm a 550 and I have been a 7 in TAP (their max) and every APA handicapped tournament I played in has put me in at the max, and I have won a few of those even at that. 550 Fargo is about the max of APA, maybe 575. As a 630 Fargo my son is in the top 5 of all TAP 7s in wins across the country.
 
Island Drive said:
I always learned yrs ago when APA was growing, a 600 Fargo rating from the Large cities were Often, completely different than in smaller more rural areas.
Meaning.... a NY APA player with a 575 rating, normally would never lose to a 650 Fargo from an rural area with few APA teams
Click to expand...

Keep in mind Fargo does not work the same way as local APA handicaps. A 575 is a 575 pretty much no matter where they are, the same issue happens when people say that a female 600 is not as good as a male 600. It's like comparing race cars 1,000 miles apart but with a known middle car to race against. If car A beat car B by .5 seconds, and then car C next state over also beat car B by .5 seconds, we can say car A and car C are pretty even. Same thing happens with Fargo ratings. The only time I can see that Fargo ratings are off by area is if the players have a very small sample size and never play anyone else outside of their small circle of 4 players. Since Fargo is an open system that has everyone linked there is no issues with local vs non-local areas. Eventually someone from an area will go into a tournament at Big City Pool Hall and run across players with 4,000 matches in Fargo they play against and how they do there ends up getting tied into the rating of everyone else they play back at Hicksville Bar and Pool Bangers.
 
hang-the-9 said:
A player can max out APA and TAP at a much lower rating than 650. I'm a 550 and I have been a 7 in TAP (their max) and every APA handicapped tournament I played in has put me in at the max, and I have won a few of those even at that. 550 Fargo is about the max of APA, maybe 575. As a 630 Fargo my son is in the top 5 of all TAP 7s in wins across the country.
Click to expand...
My fargo rating is speculative. I've beaten this induvial and that one and they are this. And I've played this one equal. And no way in hell can i beat this one. I really have no desires to play in that many tournaments.
 
BlueRaider said:
I don't think the APA cares about making things fair for the SL 7s and SL 9s because there just aren't enough of them for it to really matter. Or at least, there aren't enough super, super, super 7s and 9s who will just tear through the field to worry about it. But that may be changing, as Abe Schaad won the same event last year at 750 Fargo and now we have another 750 Fargo who won it.

It was funny to see people in the chat saying stuff like "stop whining, if you practice you can beat them." 750 is 100-150 Fargo points out of reach for the average player no matter how dedicated they are to the game. That's what makes it unfair. It's not just that they are significantly better--it's that they play at a level that's literally impossible to reach for 99% of amateur players, and the difference is great enough that your chances of beating them as a "standard" SL 7/9 are almost nil.

Both Abe and Gary are top 40 in America based on Fargo rating. When you have a higher Fargo than people who have played in the Mosconi Cup, you shouldn't be playing in amateur events alongside people who you are nearly 8x better than (i.e., a low 500 Fargo SL 7 or SL 9 vs a 750).
Click to expand...
Its tough to figure. Gary has played in number of tournaments in Houston and has loss to guys with a far lower fargo. Ernesto has won the APA top tier a few times, but seldom wins here in Houston to many of the players with Fargos in the low 600's and there a lot of 600's here.

I agree that 99% of the amateur players won't reach their speed, but there is a very large number who can beat them on any given day or have winning percentage against them. You might want that action for cash, but a short race in a tournament, could go your way.
 
benjaminwah said:
So my friend just played in the 7/8/9 9 ball APA nationals. He was cruising through the field until he ran into this guy with a 746 Fargo, higher than people who have recently played on the Mosconi Cup team. He had a tight match against him but lost, taking 3rd/4th out of 122 players. 746 Fargo won the event.

You would think an organization like the APA would establish some sort of cut off. I know, I know, it’s based on if they make a living off of pool etc. if that’s the standard is it working?
Click to expand...
I watched 3 of his matches. I would say 750 is a bit high for him. But definitely a low 700 player which still makes him favorite to get near the end if not win it. His robustness is pretty low to be fair.

Your "Friend' was "Cruising" through the field eh? lol
 
rexus31 said:
I know Brian Parks has won several of those events. His Fargo is over 700 but he is a working man, Insurance Agent, I believe. Even thought he is a high rated plater, he's still an amateur.
Click to expand...
The, I'm a working man gets old. Most every pool player in the world is a working person, especially in the US.
Brian plays very well, so does Donny, so does George.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top