APA handicap and A-D ratings

[kingwang]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first question.

I know ratings vary region by region, but approximately how do APA ratings match up with the traditional A-D ratings? For example, I'm a D+/C- player, what APA handicap would I get?

Hopefully this isn't a repeat question, I tried searching for answers first.

Thanks and Happy New Year

 

[dardusm]

Hello,

It would be tough to compare different league ratings. For example, a 7 in one region of APA may not even be as good a player as a 6 in another region. It depends on the strength of the players in each individual league. Here would be my rough scale:

APA
2 or 3 D player
4 D+/C-
5 C/C+
6 C+/B-
7 anywhere from B to A

This is a very subjective scale. The skill levels of 7's in APA can vary greatly.

Darryl

 

[Maniac]

Hello,

It would be tough to compare different league ratings. For example, a 7 in one region of APA may not even be as good a player as a 6 in another region. It depends on the strength of the players in each individual league. Here would be my rough scale:

APA
2 or 3 D player
4 D+/C-
5 C/C+
6 C+/B-
7 anywhere from B to A

This is a very subjective scale. The skill levels of 7's in APA can vary greatly.

Darryl

I must admit that I know diddly-squat, zilcho, nada about these rating systems, but as an APA SL5, I've always considered myself to be a low C or high D player. I can see how things could change from region to region.

Maniac

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

The two scales really don't work well together since A through D is often used for 9-ball while 2-7 is used for 8-ball and 8-ball can very much be a "moves" game.

Between two top 7s or two A level players, 8-ball and 9-ball can look pretty much the same - both players try to run out at their first opportunity. However, between two low ranked players, a strategic D player can be very successful while a freewheeling C player can struggle.

So, with that said, this is what I've seen in NYC

D - All 2s, 3s and 4s. Some 5s
C - 5s, 6s and some 7s
B - 6s and 7s
A - 7s

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I agree with Jude's assessment. There are 7's in my area who are C players and 7's who are A players. I think I am borderline B/A. I play as a 7 and win almost all the time. In the APA 9-ball system, it goes up to 9, but the same rules apply. I don't think I've ever seen a 9 who wasn't a B player or better. However, most 9's I see are not A players.


My $0.02

KMRUNOUT

 

[Da Poet]

The two scales really don't work well together since A through D is often used for 9-ball while 2-7 is used for 8-ball and 8-ball can very much be a "moves" game.

Very good point.

 

[KJ Cues]

Herein lies the injustice of the APA handicap system. Skill levels are attributed regionally (franchise territory). The strongest player in the territory will eventually become a 7 because of his win percentage. Take that same 7 to Detroit and he's a 3 or 4.

 

[FLICKit]

Take that same 7 to Detroit and he's a 3 or 4.

From a 7 to a 3 or 4... Highly unlikely...
You have the right idea, but over-exaggerated greatly.

 

[JDB]

Herein lies the injustice of the APA handicap system. Skill levels are attributed regionally (franchise territory). The strongest player in the territory will eventually become a 7 because of his win percentage. Take that same 7 to Detroit and he's a 3 or 4.

So Detroit is the single strongest area in the country for APA??? I doubt it.

 

[PoolSponge]

Ok. I am a VNEA player, or have been. I have listened to these APA threads and I don't get it. What is the break and run out percentages for those types of players? If I know that perhaps I can better see what the guage for myself and other of the local players would be.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Herein lies the injustice of the APA handicap system. Skill levels are attributed regionally (franchise territory). The strongest player in the territory will eventually become a 7 because of his win percentage. Take that same 7 to Detroit and he's a 3 or 4.

Well, I think you're over-simplifying things here. There are certain statistical attributes each skill level has in the APA. Even if you're an undefeated s/l 5, if your inning average is consistent with that of what the APA defines as a 5, you will remain a 5. It's not a perfect system but from what I've seen, most s/l 3s in one area are about the same as s/l 3s in other areas.

 

[FLICKit]

Well, I think you're over-simplifying things here. There are certain statistical attributes each skill level has in the APA. Even if you're an undefeated s/l 5, if your inning average is consistent with that of what the APA defines as a 5, you will remain a 5. It's not a perfect system but from what I've seen, most s/l 3s in one area are about the same as s/l 3s in other areas.

I'd basically second that summation... 3's in one area are basically consistent with 3's in another area... with rare exception...

Of course, some people, often times people without very much overall knowledge of the game (cuz they're usually near 3 level as well)... will find those exceptions and over-magnify it to use it as an opportunity to gripe and complain about the system.

But overall the system is pretty effective at what it does...

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I'd basically second that summation... 3's in one area are basically consistent with 3's in another area... with rare exception...

Of course, some people, often times people without very much overall knowledge of the game (cuz they're usually near 3 level as well)... will find those exceptions and over-magnify it to use it as an opportunity to gripe and complain about the system.

But overall the system is pretty effective at what it does...

Well, there ARE outliers. I mean, occasionally you will see an s/l 3 that is definitely much better but you can't use those cases to define an area.

 

[FLICKit]

Well, there ARE outliers. I mean, occasionally you will see an s/l 3 that is definitely much better but you can't use those cases to define an area.

Putting aside the sandbagging accusations for a moment...

The gap between s/l 3's to s/l 4 or even s/l 5 can in "some instances" be small. There are some 3's who have played for awhile and are just pure shotmakers. And they actually have a relatively high shotmaking ability (especially considering that they're just 3's). But for years have had no real concept of position play. They may have knowledge of the theory, but have had no ability to execute good position.

Then on their own, or by some modicum of instruction, they are enlightened to position play. They already had lots of experience making shots, even a lot of the crazy shots, why? cuz they kept leaving themselves those shots (previously due to bad position all the time). So even when those crazy shots come up, they can make it much more frequently than you'd expect, cuz they are well practiced in them. They've been doing it for years...

Now, you come along and see them play either you or one of your teammates, who gets smoked and smoked bad. Having no previous experience or knowledge of this individual, most people would immediately jump to the conclusion, sandbagger! And if they really aren't sandbagging, you could never convince that guy (who now knows it all).

Then that same smokin 3, moves up to a skill level 4. And all of a sudden he can't win a match. Oh he can get close, take it hill/hill or jump out of the gate and win the first 2, but because he has that 3rd game to win all of a sudden everything changes.

Now, that captain jumps to the conclusion that he's raised too high. The captain quickly forgets the times when that 3 performed way above his current level.

And the complaining starts... Not necessarily cuz the system is flawed, but instead cuz everyone thinks they know better. And the truth is virtually none of us really know what it is.... That's why it's secret... sh!!!!

 

[APA7]

Herein lies the injustice of the APA handicap system. Skill levels are attributed regionally (franchise territory). The strongest player in the territory will eventually become a 7 because of his win percentage. Take that same 7 to Detroit and he's a 3 or 4.

I think it's more like a 7 in a weak area will B a 6 or maybe a really strong 5 in a tuff area. U don't see more than 1 rating difference most of the time.

Brian

 

[kingwang]

Thanks guys, I really learned a lot here.

Btw, is the A-D rating pretty much arbitrary or is there some test/scale? I remember a 10 ball test with a corresponding scale for A-D rating, but are there any others?