APA league Frustrations....

[Koop]

Can someone tell me what people like about the APA? I am just interested. I played one year and I liked the race to 7 idea. Other than that there is almost no return on your money. They do have a national championship, but so do other leagues. What do people like? Just interested.

Hi Pete,

I keep asking myself the same thing. Just yesterday I was talking to a buddy about possibly leaving after next session to compete in local tournaments. We both feel like we have peaked and will not get any better consistently playing weaker players. To answer your question though, I do like getting together with friends and shooting some pool but I think that's about it now. Sounds crazy but I would rather go two and out against stronger players than watch my winning percentage in the APA. Don't get me wrong though, I have had a lot of fun but I think it's time to move on and start getting my butt whipped again. It's how I got to where I am and it's the only way I'm going to get better.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Shorty]

APA - my take on it...

First of all let me state...this is just one midget's opinion and most of you can easily overlook it...*wink*

APA is a racket. It is simply an excuse to have a legitimate pyramid money making scheme. It is designed primarily to get people involved in the game of pool *cough cough* while making the top man, ie league officials moolah for herding cats and listening to complaints every 16 weeks. Our league has 5-6 teams in which 140 a week is taken in. Multiply that by 16 weeks. Now figure out that you pay back maybe 1/10 of that as playoff money...that's it. Bar's donate there table time and drinks even. You don't have overhead really and you get to kick back and crunch a few stats for maybe two hours a week and keep the rest in your pocket. Can we say money maker?

With this being said...I play in an APA league. Why? Cause it gets me outta the house one night a week and I enjoy getting back into some sort of a regular routine of playing pool. I don't take it serious. I don't care if we win or lose, although I am the strongest 4 you will ever play. *chessire grin*

But Erik, as a buddy of yours let me tell ya one thing...don't take it serious cause it will never be a serious league. You want serious, go take a hundred dollar bill and bet any schmoe in a race to 7 for hundred and I bet he will get serious with ya...see my point? APA is not designed to be serious, it's designed to make dinero.

Shorty

 

[catscradle]

First of all let me state...this is just one midget's opinion and most of you can easily overlook it...*wink*

... APA is not designed to be serious, it's designed to make dinero...

Shorty

It is really irrelevant what the APA is designed for or how much money the League Operator is making (though I think you're overstating how well they do). People play in the APA for just a few reasons to have fun (hopefully), to have a little competition appropriate to their level of skill (though sometimes that apple cart is upset by sandbagging), and maybe, just maybe, play in a national competition. The money you win if you win does really amount to a pisshole in the snow, but so what. If the operator makes a bundle, so what if the participants are getting what they want out of it. Casinos make a bundle too, but people keep going back because they enjoy the gambling.
When you feel you reach a point of diminishing returns like DDKoop you may have to go find another avenue for your competitive juices. Whether it is APA, TAP, BCA, or any of the other organizations, they're in it to make money not for love of pool; if they put a product out there the people enjoy I don't begrudge them whatever they make. That's capitalism and it works.
JMHO.

 

[thirtyeyes]

Sir, I cannot tell you how long ago it stopped fascinating me. There were moments when I simply wanted to tell them both to put the cues down and step away from the table FOREVER!

Jude M. Rosenstock

Luckily, when I was a 2 I was on a team with a 7 who was always willing to give advice and help my game along. I often see 2s and 3s who are left on their own to make the same mistakes over and over again. Their high level players don't seem to give a damn and pay no attention to the game. If they did, they might pick up a few extra matches over the season.

Actually, the too serious pool players are better off avoiding the APA. I guess they don't understand that the league is designed to have beginners and advanced players? The skill cap is 23 not 35.

I like the APA, it's a good time to hang out and drink some beers. Our team matches up and plays our best, no sandbagging and no 7 v. 2's. And you know what? We're normally in the playoffs.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Actually, the too serious pool players are better off avoiding the APA. ....

you hit the nail on the head........if you're super serious about pool then individual tournaments is the place to be. i play on a sunday and monday apa team, i'm an sl7 right now, so alot of times, i'm jut there as a coach. i mainly play on the team just to make sure i get "competition" each week. this is the time i incorporate things i have been practicing that i'm just not ready to incorporate into a serious match. so basically i just use the apa as a form of "competitive practice". as far as serious play, i'm going to be following the fury amatuer tour, and any other independent tournaments that i can make it to on the east coast in the span of ny and ga.

thanks

 

[JimS]

I don't think I could EVER like playing in a league...ANY league. I played for two years but couldn't do it again. No incentive to become a better player and lots of crap having to do with handicaps, team standings, money paybacks etc. Just too much crap and too little pool.

 

[jjinfla]

Can someone tell me what people like about the APA? .

Different strokes for different folks.

How about fellowship, challenge, competition with people close to your own skill, being able to show off, being able to teach, reaching for a higher skill level.

Playing with the APA costs $7 per week and you usually play close to an hour so it is about twice what it would cost if you just rented the table and played by yourself so the money is not worth worrying about.

APA is not an end all. There is no reason why a person can't play in the APA and also play in tournaments. We have various tournaments here just about every day and many people who play in the APA also play in the tournaments from time to time.

APA is just a different venue. There is one for 8-ball and one for 9-ball.

Not much different than bowling leagues.

APA is a business and just like any business it is designed to make money. At least the promoters of the APA are smarter than the average TD. Most TD run their tournaments at a loss. How many players would run a business at a loss? All those with your hands up must not work or are really stupid, or both. LOL

Jake

 

[Koop]

Luckily, when I was a 2 I was on a team with a 7 who was always willing to give advice and help my game along. I often see 2s and 3s who are left on their own to make the same mistakes over and over again. Their high level players don't seem to give a damn and pay no attention to the game. If they did, they might pick up a few extra matches over the season.

I agree with you to a point. The lower player also has to have some kind of drive to want to improve. Obviously you did and some of my guys do as well. To them, I am always available and will spend as much time as needed until they understand something. But you always have the players who make the same mistake over and over, no matter how many times you try to help. After a while, whether it's right or wrong, you just give up. I'm not one who likes to hear myself talk to it gets frustrating.

The biggest success story on my team was a guy who started as a 3, went down to a 2 and eventually became a 5 within a one year period. He listened and absorbed everything. My friend and I put in a lot of time with him because he showed a true interest in getting better and was by far the leagues most improved player. I guess my point is, you can't teach someone who is unwilling to learn. I never really stop trying with my guys but sometimes it does get frustrating.

Koop

 

[Koop]

Well we'll see you in New Bedford at the next level.

Hey Steve,

Yes you will. We won last night but I really feel bad for the opposing captain. I put up my other 6 to start and he got spanked by their 5. Then they put up a 3 who spanked my 4. Great night so far. I put myself up against their 6 figuring it's do or die time. Thankfully I was in stroke last night and defeated him fairly easily. Nobody else showed up for his team which meant he had to forfeit the last two matches. The guy was furious and I would be too. All they needed was one more win and nobody was there to shoot. I'm happy to be moving on but it would have been nice to shoot our way there.

Oh well, just one of those things when you have to rely on others to pull you through.

Hope to see you down there.

Dave

 

[catscradle]

Hey Steve,

Yes you will. We won last night ...
Hope to see you down there.

Dave

Yes you will actually. We won too. Started off with one of our 3s winning (a friend of yours), then I lost a tough one to a real strong 4 who you probably know, but I can't remember his name, then Tony and Andy came through to wrap it up.

Too bad about your opponent. You join a team, any team, any sport, and you accept a certain responsibility to be there when it's time to play. It should be your top priority for that particular time slot. If something else is going to take precedence it should be made clear before you even join.

 

[Koop]

Yes you will actually. We won too. Started off with one of our 3s winning (a friend of yours), then I lost a tough one to a real strong 4 who you probably know, but I can't remember his name, then Tony and Andy came through to wrap it up.

Too bad about your opponent. You join a team, any team, any sport, and you accept a certain responsibility to be there when it's time to play. It should be your top priority for that particular time slot. If something else is going to take precedence it should be made clear before you even join.

Congrats. I just saw Andy 5 minutes ago ( same company ). I will be late arriving because I have school on Saturdays but hopefully the guys can keep it alive until I get down there. Looking forward to it.

Dave

 

[NewGuy]

The biggest success story on my team was a guy who started as a 3, went down to a 2 and eventually became a 5 within a one year period. He listened and absorbed everything.

Haha... I swear that you just described me. The APA is just like anything else, you get what you put into it. I started playing about a year ago and boy did I suck. But, I went into it with an open mind and open ears. My goal was to learn and to improve my game, which is what I did. I struggled really bad my first season, but I continued to improve and now I'm a 5. I always listen to advice from higher ranked players and practice as much as I can. I'm now at the point where I'm taking lessons from an instructor to improve my game even further. Eventually, I can see myself outgrowing the APA just as many of the 7s on this board have. Luckily, there's a league in NYC that's specifically for A, B, and C players. When I'm ready, I'll switch to that league.

On the flip side, a friend of mine joined the league the same time I did. Before joining, he used to always kick my ass. He thought (probably still thinks) that he's a good player so he never took advice from anyone. He absolutely hates being coached. Well guess what, after a year in the league he's still a 3 and a medium 3 at best.

For me, the APA has been a very good experience. I'm using it as a stepping stone to improve my game. If I had first tried playing in tournaments on my own, I think I would have gotten very frustrated very quickly and quit by now.

 

[pete lafond]

APA is a business and just like any business it is designed to make money. At least the promoters of the APA are smarter than the average TD. Most TD run their tournaments at a loss. How many players would run a business at a loss? All those with your hands up must not work or are really stupid, or both. LOL

Jake

I was just interested in knowing what APA has and others do not. I realize that a lot of leagues are a lot of fun. Profit or not, doesn't change a thing. I think what I get is that the APA is a good place for beginners. Once these beginners graduate, they can then move on to other leagues with stronger players to advance their learning. What I gather is that the APA has done a very good job with this.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Eventually, I can see myself outgrowing the APA just as many of the 7s on this board have. Luckily, there's a league in NYC that's specifically for A, B, and C players. When I'm ready, I'll switch to that league.
.

Hey NewGuy, are you talking about Amsterdam Billiards' Thursday Night Team 9-ball league? If so, you should consider it soon since the first night is this Thursday. If I were you, I would just join. Your game only gets better when you challenge it.

BTW out of curiosity, who's your instructor?


Jude M. Rosenstock

 

[vapoolplayer]

Hey NewGuy, are you talking about Amsterdam Billiards' Thursday Night Team 9-ball league? If so, you should consider it soon since the first night is this Thursday. If I were you, I would just join. Your game only gets better when you challenge it.

BTW out of curiosity, who's your instructor?


Jude M. Rosenstock

out of curiousity does amsterdam have any weekend tournaments? monthy or weekly? i'm in nyc a fair amount. in fact i'll be there this weekend. i'll be playing in a small tourney saturday and be in manhattan for lessons tuesday. i was just wondering if amsterdam has any tourney's that are on the weekends for future trips.

thanks

 

[NewGuy]

Hey NewGuy, are you talking about Amsterdam Billiards' Thursday Night Team 9-ball league? If so, you should consider it soon since the first night is this Thursday. If I were you, I would just join. Your game only gets better when you challenge it.

BTW out of curiosity, who's your instructor?


Jude M. Rosenstock

Yup, I was talking about Amsterdam's league. Unfortunately, Thursday's are not a good night for me. I currently play in the APA on Sunday's and Wednesday's. I think I might quit one of those teams next season to join the Amsterdam league if they play on one of those nights.

I'm taking lessons from Fran Crimi out of Corner Billiards. The first lesson was definitely an eye opener. She totally broke down my stance and bridge. I'm still getting used to what she taught me so far, but I can feel that my shots are a lot more consistent.

 

[Koop]

Haha... I swear that you just described me. The APA is just like anything else, you get what you put into it. I started playing about a year ago and boy did I suck. But, I went into it with an open mind and open ears. My goal was to learn and to improve my game, which is what I did. I struggled really bad my first season, but I continued to improve and now I'm a 5. I always listen to advice from higher ranked players and practice as much as I can. I'm now at the point where I'm taking lessons from an instructor to improve my game even further. Eventually, I can see myself outgrowing the APA just as many of the 7s on this board have. Luckily, there's a league in NYC that's specifically for A, B, and C players. When I'm ready, I'll switch to that league.

On the flip side, a friend of mine joined the league the same time I did. Before joining, he used to always kick my ass. He thought (probably still thinks) that he's a good player so he never took advice from anyone. He absolutely hates being coached. Well guess what, after a year in the league he's still a 3 and a medium 3 at best.

For me, the APA has been a very good experience. I'm using it as a stepping stone to improve my game. If I had first tried playing in tournaments on my own, I think I would have gotten very frustrated very quickly and quit by now.

Congratulations and I agree with Jude. Jump in and start playing. You got to a point where you can compete in the APA at a very decent level and now it's time to get your feet wet in the tournaments. Trust me, there is even more to learn there. For as much as I do have my grievances with the APA, there are some good points and one of them is seeing somebody who can't even hold a cue when they begin, over time, bring their game up to a point where they can compete.

Best of luck in the tourneys,
Dave

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

out of curiousity does amsterdam have any weekend tournaments? monthy or weekly? i'm in nyc a fair amount. in fact i'll be there this weekend. i'll be playing in a small tourney saturday and be in manhattan for lessons tuesday. i was just wondering if amsterdam has any tourney's that are on the weekends for future trips.

thanks

Hey Vapoolplayer,

The tournament schedule for Amsterdam Billiards can be found at www.tristate-tour.com. Unfortunately, this weekend is the Scotch Doubles Tournament which is a handicapped partners event. Usually, it's 9-ball. Unless you play in the Open event, you'll need a rating prior to playing. Try to stop by during the week and ask the front desk if the league director could rate you.

If you narrow down an event you plan on playing in, let me know and I'll give you the what-you-need-to-know stuff.


Jude M. Rosenstock

 

[jjinfla]

I was just interested in knowing what APA has and others do not. I realize that a lot of leagues are a lot of fun. Profit or not, doesn't change a thing. I think what I get is that the APA is a good place for beginners. Once these beginners graduate, they can then move on to other leagues with stronger players to advance their learning. What I gather is that the APA has done a very good job with this.

Hey Pete,

You gather right! Last year marked a milestone for the APA - they celebrated their 25th anniversary and crossed the quarter million member plateu. Not too shabby.

All leagues or tournaments offer something. It is up to the individual to find what suits them the best.

Here the APA has a money cup that teams finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd compete in. Top prize is $1,000 down to $100 for the team. (16 teams in a bracket)

There is the best of the best that players finishing in the top 16 can compete in for a Dale Perry que.

There are individual qualifiers for a trip to Vegas.

Last summer I started a 9-ball team with 7 brand new members. We are in our 2nd session and doing quite well and they all love it. Our ratings range from 1-7. I imagine that by the end of this session my 7 will be a 9 and cares less who he plays. My 1's might be 2's but not much more.

But the trick is to find a league near your home. Or a bar/pool room that offers a league/tournament. It is no fun to be traveling 30 or more miles to go play pool. Especially if you are going to have a couple of beers.

Jake

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Yup, I was talking about Amsterdam's league. Unfortunately, Thursday's are not a good night for me. I currently play in the APA on Sunday's and Wednesday's. I think I might quit one of those teams next season to join the Amsterdam league if they play on one of those nights.

I'm taking lessons from Fran Crimi out of Corner Billiards. The first lesson was definitely an eye opener. She totally broke down my stance and bridge. I'm still getting used to what she taught me so far, but I can feel that my shots are a lot more consistent.

The Thursday Night League at Amsterdam Billiards is unique, to say the least. It has been regarded as the strongest chapter in the BCA, having routinely sent teams to Las Vegas that finished rather well. On top of that, the league is open to all players. Returning players include Tony Robles, George "Ginky" SanSoucci, Jennifer Barretta, Romana, Dokovic, Sharon Weiss, Liz Schwartzreich, Chris Lynch, Steve Lipsky, Jonathan Smith & Nicholas Schulman. Past players include Tiffany Nelson, Kim Shaw & Mika Immonen. A slew of great players are always rumored to be on the cusp of starting a team. (I've probably forgotten at least a half dozen other great players)

It is a league player's ultimate dream or worst nightmare, whichever way you look at it. No matter, it is the highest level of weekly team play you will ever find in the country. The league is stacked with quality amateur players with B-class being the average.


Honestly, I've been around long enough to know that things like this do not necessarily last forever. As wonderful as the APA can be, it'll always be there and frequently there are multiple nights to join. I'd jump in this league while the opportunity is there. First day is THIS THURSDAY. If you plan to join, contact the club immediately.



Jude M. Rosenstock