Here is my problem with my APA league operator. I live in Dallas, tx. And I play in the south west division, my team is currently in first place. We won the fall session last year so we have a city's tournament coming up in 2 weeks. Well here is the issue, my captain got a call from the league operator and was told there are 3 players on our team that are soon to have their skill levels bumped up and if that happens we will be disqualified from the city's tournament. She told him that it's coming from the main office but we read that the operator has the power to if they see a player they believe to be a higher skill level than what they currently are they can automatically bumped them up and have them disqualified. I think this is a load of Shit , cause we make it an issue we can be penalized for that too. We players pay to play in this league the only time I ever say money come back to us was when we went to the tri cup tournament, players should have more say not the league operator. Has anyone had issues like this?
APA league operator issues
- Thread starter octy81
- Start date
I have never shot APA before, so, this is a story passed on to me by a player out of Florida. I have known him for about 8 years and do not doubt his word. He told me his team was shooting in their state APA tournament and one of his team members ran two tables back to back and the other team complained to the APA Official on hand and they disqualified him on the spot. My friend who is the Captain, went up and started to complain and they threw him out as well. I just have a hard time believing that if a person shoots well in two games, or a match that because a person overchieved, I mean, is that not the idea in the first place.
I have read several situations like this in APA leagues. Kinda puzzling. Hope all goes well and you can at least finish the season where your at !!!
I have read several situations like this in APA leagues. Kinda puzzling. Hope all goes well and you can at least finish the season where your at !!!
Exactly why I quit the APA. Went to TAP. Much better.
Yes, had a bad league operator experience last session. Playing in Lewisville Tx. Same thing, handicap manipulation. Whole team dropped and went to TAP. Better rules, higher ceiling for handicaps and tougher competition. And a small payback at end on session. We have been much happier. 
Yes, had a bad league operator experience last session. Playing in Lewisville Tx. Same thing, handicap manipulation. Whole team dropped and went to TAP. Better rules, higher ceiling for handicaps and tougher competition. And a small payback at end on session. We have been much happier.
Is there a way to find out if the TAP operate out of Dallas? It sucks but it seems that they can just make Shit up on the spot. Before I got with my new team I was the captain of my own team but after 4 games we decided to break up cause of player issues, when I informed the operator she said that I owed her the rest of the money for the entire session I told her I wasn't goin to pay it we played 4 games and we payed those 4 games she wanted me to pay the remaining games which there were 10 games left, $ 400.00 and I told her Hell no ..this league is jacked up.
Surely TAP is in Dallas. Im a transplant from Oklahoma, and it is gaining ground there from similar issues. Our TAP league is out of the Denton county. We also had our APA
LO tell us we owe quite a bit of money. But we were not going to pay to get screwed.
LO tell us we owe quite a bit of money. But we were not going to pay to get screwed.
This is a drawback of a team that begins to play better as a team. Those skill levels go upand you have to seek other forms of entertainment. The thing in your post that I find odd is that the LO said "this is coming from the main office". As I understand it, your LO is the main office. I find it highly unusual that anyone in St. Louis has taken time to review your team's skill levels and history and advised your LO that you guys have a problem. I would submit that you're being lied to. Now, the LO is God and has a great deal of freedom to run their league the way they see fit, but any time they start to pass things off as coming from the main office things begin to stink. It's much more likely that your LO has reviewed some things and doesn't want to be thought of as the bad guy. It may be entirely fair to say that your players are close to being moved up, and if that happened during the tournament that would dq you. Think about having 2 of them, or at least 1 of them them raised before play starts, if you can't make the 23 rule, you can play 4 to 20 or if you can't do that you play 3 to 17. Or....... if you're pissed and done with the APA anyways, what have you got to lose? Play it out and make them dq you.
From reading the past posts here on AZ I find that TAP has it's own set of issues, but it sounds like you can probably keep your team together if you decide to go that way. All the leagues seem to come with problems. It's just part of the league culture.
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Not going to agree or disagree. Here is a solution. See if your LO has set up a handicap review committee and a board of governors. If not, recommend he does, and volunteer to be on one. It is recommended by National that they do so.
As for the story a buddy relayed, I doubt that is the whole story. No one I have ever seen is thrown out for one offense......unless it is a really bad one! Two b and r's in a row will definitely have an affect on your top 10 out of 20 games. That could raise anyone that is on the bubble. Obviously your hard work as a team is paying off.....and you think you shouldn't be raised before or during a tournament. Well if he didn't raise you, the sandbag complaints start to come out. Is it possible your team mates were going to be raised because they actually DESERVED it? If so, kudos to your team! Keep up the hard work.
As for the story a buddy relayed, I doubt that is the whole story. No one I have ever seen is thrown out for one offense......unless it is a really bad one! Two b and r's in a row will definitely have an affect on your top 10 out of 20 games. That could raise anyone that is on the bubble. Obviously your hard work as a team is paying off.....and you think you shouldn't be raised before or during a tournament. Well if he didn't raise you, the sandbag complaints start to come out. Is it possible your team mates were going to be raised because they actually DESERVED it? If so, kudos to your team! Keep up the hard work.
Your LO was actually trying to do your team a favor and somebody misunderstood, that's all. Every member of every team in the LTC has to certify their own skill level prior to the tournament. By telling you that your team has a number of players close to going up, she's giving you a chance to certify some players at a higher level and avoid a potential DQ situation. And yes, we are advised by the national office to do this for our teams. Believe me, nobody wants to be in a DQ situation, not the team, the LO, or the national office. It's no fun for anyone.
that is what it sounds like to me also.
i have all the luck when it comes to s/l raised.
when i 1st joined apa i qualified for 8 ball top gun as a 3. when i arrive to the tournament my lo tells me i was raised to a 4. won that tournament and went to singles regionals and went 2 and out,
next year i again win top gun and qualify for regionals. the week before regionals i was raised to a 5. did a lil better this time. went undefeated all the way to the finals where i lost hill-hill.
even better story with 9 ball. 2 years ago at 9 ball tri cups. i am a 4 at the start of the tourny. win my 1st match and go up to a 5. lose my 2nd match and drop to a 4. win my 3rd match and raised back to a 5. all this transpired over 2 days. been a 5 ever since.
So does the National office contact you (LO's) regarding a specific team and say, "We see that Tom's team, the team called Team X, has several players that are on the border line of having their S/L raised. Please inform them as to player 1, player 2, and player 3 so we can avoid a dq situation." or is it a general directive or general advice from the National Office to inform your teams that they may want to consider certifying some players at a higher S/L to avoid a potential dq situation.
Hahaha yeah he's doing you a favor..so get to sand bagging so your numbers don't go up!! That's the apa way!
Agreed. The LO is providing you visibility to make an informed decision should you and your teammates win. It is not a pass for sandbagging. The LO is setting the expectations so that you will know what needs to be done as for as leveraging the team.
I've had three members who their handicaps raised prior to Cities and if we've made it, we know that it is going to be a challenge to win, but at least we will not have to think about getting DQ'd. I've been in teams long enough that teammates gets raised, this is part of being part of the team/being a captain. Always expect this and deploy actions necessary to leverage it.
As far as TAP, that is one of the reasons why I decided to join TAP. It allows easier leveraging of teammates, but at the same time making the matches more challenging/competitive since the races are shorter.
She's doing your team a favor. Not sure why this is not obvious to you. LO's are not out to screw their own teams. Did she tell your captain which players are in handicap danger? That would be helpful but I'm sure you and your captain already have a good idea who anyway.
As far as the DQ of the guy who B&R two straight racks. It depends on what his skill level was when he did it. If he was a 7(8Ball) then I would be very surprised that he was DQ'd. If it was a SL4 or even a 5, then I'm not surprised at all. In that case you're damn right he should have been DQ'd. A 4 has no business running one rack. Let alone two straight.
As far as the DQ of the guy who B&R two straight racks. It depends on what his skill level was when he did it. If he was a 7(8Ball) then I would be very surprised that he was DQ'd. If it was a SL4 or even a 5, then I'm not surprised at all. In that case you're damn right he should have been DQ'd. A 4 has no business running one rack. Let alone two straight.
Sorry to say this, but a bigger load of shit is that you have a team with up to 3 players playing below their handicap. How is that fair to the other teams?
Maybe they aren't sandbagging but it sure sounds like they are and this is sour grapes.
Koop,
The APA team I play on has four players who have bounced up and down in skill level over the past four years. Two are now 3's. Two are now 5's. Have no problem with the situation. Both 3's play well within their ability range. One has over a 50% win percentage. The other well below 50%. The 5's on the other hand have much higher win percentages this session. Last session they both were sub 50%. Was our LO justified? Can't argue with her. Only problem is she waited till late Friday night to change one from 2 to 3. Saturday was division playoffs. We began play with our usual lineup till it got to me as anchor. The other team objected as we would be playing at 24. Only then did the captain realize what had happened. Whose fault? Our captain for not checking averages before starting? Probably but it sure would have helped for the LO to notify our captain of the change more than twelve hours before play began. The score sheets were printed early Friday evening. Play began at 8 AM Saturday. One of those over / under 50% players went from a 2 to a 3 AFTER 8 PM. Incidentally, we lost the match to qualify for Cities. Sour grapes? Don't think so.
Lyn
There's plenty of people in Apa that our good at there number but not quite good enough to go up or have gone up but go down because they can't handle the increased handy cap. Sounds like your one of the winers crying about it being fair. Life ain't fair lol
This is gonna happen in any handy cap league. Your gonna have players get better and move up...it's the nature of the beast.