APA Nationals in Vegas: table choice

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StuartTKelley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A while back I remember a thread about how bad the tables were at the APA National event. As long as I've been playing APA I've never been fortunate enough to be on a team that has won our local LTC to get to this event.

The closest I came was in a singles event in Chesapeake VA. This was a great event and played on Diamond Bar boxes...which aren't true bar boxes but tons better in my opinion. I lost to a strong 9 in 9ball so I took 2nd...but a great weekend of pool for me...again, on Diamonds. I've won both of the only two local qualifying tournaments I've entered for singles and both were on, you guessed it, Diamonds. I doubt I would have won a Valley...I don't like the way they play at all. Nothing like a Diamond....I skipped the last regional that I qualified for because it was being held on Valley tables..what a disappointment!

Why does APA refuse to make this the standard for such a large event?! I would hate to go all the way to Vegas just to play on a bad or even a good valley table.....what an insult!

Anyone know the reason?
 
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Cause APA has a stick in their ass about who owns Diamond.

I've been to Vegas 5 times over the last 15 years in the APA and to me the tables get worse every year.

It's sad that the pool league that promotes themselves as biggest and best uses the worse tables they can find in their biggest event.

Oh well...
 
So in this grand plan of yours where you are good enough that it matters whether you play on a Valley or Diamond (read: spoiled and can't adapt to different playing conditions) who is going to pay for all of these multi-thousand dollar tables?



Edit: I apologize for that coming off as combative (although its true). Let me explain....

APA lets the regional directors choose where to have big events. While they probably can invest in the national event and get Diamond tables (albeit it would be pretty damn expensive) they have no control over what tables are available anywhere but there.

What you are suggesting is that all pool halls across the United States that host big events go out and plop down tens of thousands to refit their halls with Diamond tables. This is no where near realistic and will never be done. Hence the first part of my statement.

Also- you come off as sounding annoying since you skip large events if they don't have the type of tables you like to play on.

I would suggest you not advertise that fact and simply get good enough at pool so that you can adapt and win no matter what table you play on.

Also- your opponent has to play on the same table as you and while I agree that it can be annoying... that goes both ways.
 
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zpele said:
So in this grand plan of yours where you are good enough that it matters whether you play on a Valley or Diamond (read: spoiled and can't adapt to different playing conditions) who is going to pay for all of these multi-thousand dollar tables?
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If i remember reading correctly, APA used Diamonds until Mark Griffin became a part of Diamond.

Again, if I remember correctly, the same tables that available for the BCAPL events in Vegas could be available for the APA events, if they wished.
 
cbi1000 said:
It's sad that the pool league that promotes themselves as biggest and best uses the worse tables they can find in their biggest event.

Oh well...
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That's part of their motto.. Everyone can play, anyone can win! Especially on tables like those. :D

zpele said:
So in this grand plan of yours where you are good enough that it matters whether you play on a Valley or Diamond (read: spoiled and can't adapt to different playing conditions) who is going to pay for all of these multi-thousand dollar tables?
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Uhh, well, when they charge $1 a rack, they should just about pay for themselves. If our little regional BCA event can afford to plunk down for 80 of them, I'm pretty sure an outfit like APA could do it for their national event. They'd rather spend thousands on a crappy product instead of a good product that's tied to their "competition". Competition.. yeah, because slews of 3s and 4s are ready to jump ship for the BCA. :confused:
 
I agree with you guys. I edited my post and must have not finished when you were quoting me.

Nationals should use Diamond tables or whatever is the best manufacturer available but I highly disagree with the OP about requiring Diamonds at all events.
 
Bruce...I believe it is more related to when Mark purchased the BCAPL (Mark has been with Diamond much longer, IIRC). Up until then, the APA had used Diamond Smart Tables for the previous couple of years. Personally, I don't understand the animosity. I like both leagues...and they both have their place! :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

justadub said:
If i remember reading correctly, APA used Diamonds until Mark Griffin became a part of Diamond.

Again, if I remember correctly, the same tables that available for the BCAPL events in Vegas could be available for the APA events, if they wished.
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I have been down there the last 2 years and have been there 8 times overall and the tables in the mini room where the Masters play was a joke and i dont think they really care, $1 buck a game on 150 or so tables 24hrs a day for 12 days The American Pocketbook Assassins at there best???
 
As I just said in another thread. I prefer Valley's over Diamonds any day. IMO playimg on a Diamond is like playing pool inside a pinball machine. The rails rebound way too much...

But I'm a pool whore and will play on just about anything as I am willing to adapt to new challenges. But I do not prefer the Diamond bar tables at all.

StuartTKelley said:
A while back I remember a thread about how bad the tables were at the APA National event. As long as I've been playing APA I've never been fortunate enough to be on a team that has won our local LTC to get to this event.

The closest I came was in a singles event in Chesapeake VA. This was a great event and played on Diamond Bar boxes...which aren't true bar boxes but tons better in my opinion. I lost to a strong 9 in 9ball so I took 2nd...but a great weekend of pool for me...again, on Diamonds. I've won both of the only two local qualifying tournaments I've entered for singles and both were on, you guessed it, Diamonds. I doubt I would have won a Valley...I don't like the way they play at all. Nothing like a Diamond....I skipped the last regional that I qualified for because it was being held on Valley tables..what a disappointment!

Why does APA refuse to make this the standard for such a large event?! I would hate to go all the way to Vegas just to play on a bad or even a good valley table.....what an insult!

Anyone know the reason?
Click to expand...
 
frostedcue said:
As I just said in another thread. I prefer Valley's over Diamonds any day. IMO playimg on a Diamond is like playing pool inside a pinball machine. The rails rebound way too much...

But I'm a pool whore and will play on just about anything as I am willing to adapt to new challenges. But I do not prefer the Diamond bar tables at all.
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I want what this guy is smokin
 
This has been stated a LOT of times.

If the APA wants Diamond Tables - they can have them.

There is absolutely no reason for them to not have Diamonds.

It would cost them no more than having the Valley's.

They 'yanked' our relationship after I bought the BCA Pool Leagues - when all I wanted to do was to help pool and protect the BCA league system.

Keep in mind that the APA was the pushing force of the BCA to sell the leagues.


Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
 
Mark Griffin said:
This has been stated a LOT of times.

If the APA wants Diamond Tables - they can have them.

There is absolutely no reason for them to not have Diamonds.

It would cost them no more than having the Valley's.

They 'yanked' our relationship after I bought the BCA Pool Leagues - when all I wanted to do was to help pool and protect the BCA league system.

Keep in mind that the APA was the pushing force of the BCA to sell the leagues.


Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
Click to expand...

The irony of it is that their own '23' rule and the fact that they introduce more people to pool results in more people joining BCA. Around here, they have about half diamonds at the locations that they use for APA events and they're also used for the APA regional events, courtesy of Bad Boys. They're only doing themselves a disservice by continuing to showcase their national event as one large bar event, amature in nearly every sense.
 
cbi1000 said:
Cause APA has a stick in their ass about who owns Diamond.

I've been to Vegas 5 times over the last 15 years in the APA and to me the tables get worse every year.

It's sad that the pool league that promotes themselves as biggest and best uses the worse tables they can find in their biggest event.

Oh well...
Click to expand...

BCAPL and USAPL -- Diamond Tables at the national tournaments :grin-square::wink:

I am thinking in the next 5 years they will start to come close or over-take the APA in members. There are several APA bars/rooms that went to USAPL in my area and also players singly moving from the APA.
 
Mark Griffin said:
This has been stated a LOT of times.

If the APA wants Diamond Tables - they can have them.

There is absolutely no reason for them to not have Diamonds.

It would cost them no more than having the Valley's.

They 'yanked' our relationship after I bought the BCA Pool Leagues - when all I wanted to do was to help pool and protect the BCA league system.

Keep in mind that the APA was the pushing force of the BCA to sell the leagues.


Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
Click to expand...

Mark, what's the difference between the BCA and USA leagues?
 
Quality

I'm in agreement about Diamonds, I do prefer them over Valleys however I think no matter the level of the tournament, the players are looking for consistency from ANY table, regardless of manufacturer.

It is too many places, or maybe vendors, that have mismatched rails on tables. If one rail is dead, another hot and it differs table to table, rolls to the middle because of sagging slate, poor framework, etc, how can you perform at your best?

In on league I play (in Minnesota) we play diamonds in 90+% places, but the annual tournament on valleys - REALLY disappointing. I also heard the stated reason - didn't pass the smell test.
 
labatt ice rod said:
I have been down there the last 2 years and have been there 8 times overall and the tables in the mini room where the Masters play was a joke and i dont think they really care, $1 buck a game on 150 or so tables 24hrs a day for 12 days American Pocketbook Assassins...???
Click to expand...

Best quote i've heard in YEARS.
 
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I was at the APA event two years ago and it was pits. Tables were dirty, balls were dirty and many where mismatched sets, the cloth was crap on a level i've never seen before....

There were folds in all pockets, the wrinkles on the bed of the tables was a joke. I saw a player slow roll a ball to a packet where the ball actually rolled to the edge of the pocket only to roll back out 2 inches....

I agree we all play on the same table, but F me, that is a JOKE.

It's like the NFL playing the superbowl at the local jr high schools field.
 
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