Apa not disclosing covid19 infected players???

[Black-Balled]

Who is liable for the deaths and illnesses? Businesses point to people. People point to businesses. Disclosure should absolutely be an obligation.

businesses generally have 'vicarious liability' in matters like communicable disease. A business cant become infected and therefore, cant transmit.

If there is defiance of mandate or willful failure to address a potential source of transmission, that could be a different story, but it would be virtually impossible for an infected person to prove (in a legal sense) the source of his infection.

At this time, covid exposure is an inherent risk of life on earth.

 

[Black-Balled]

And 'when we learn of', is entirely dependent upon the infected person's self disclosure to you?

We as APA league operators are required to notify the national office when we learn of a player who attended league play with Covid-19. Then we work with their guidance through a process that includes notification and contact tracing, as well as possible shutdowns and schedule changes. As far as requirements to disclose a name, I personally have never been through the process but because of privacy issues I would imagine there's no such requirement. I don't know what other organizations do, but APA has a well-defined process for handling these issues. The national office has not been sitting by idly during this pandemic. They've been doing what they can to help us, as league operators and everyone else, as players, to get through it responsibly. I think they've done an admirable job and hope other billiards organizations have done the same.

 

[MattPoland]

I do not think the APA operator would have the right to even know if one or more players are Covid19 positive, and thus is in no position to inform anyone else.



SNIP...

A LO can’t disclose what they don’t know. I have to imagine the premise of the conversation starts with someone voluntarily informing their team captain and/or LO that they tested positive. And then this is about what happens from there.



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[ideologist]

businesses generally have 'vicarious liability' in matters like communicable disease. A business cant become infected and therefore, cant transmit.

If there is defiance of mandate or willful failure to address a potential source of transmission, that could be a different story, but it would be virtually impossible for an infected person to prove (in a legal sense) the source of his infection.

At this time, covid exposure is an inherent risk of life on earth.

I understand that, but if they know of contagious people in their employ or organization and fail to report it, this is a different ball of wax. I expect the shitshow in courts or liability for infection to drag on for years. Especially as the long term effects are becoming more apparent.

 

[logical]

Inform anyone who had potential contact that they may have had contact with someone who tested positive. That's all they need to know, nothing of value comes from telling them who it was.

Anyone who did not have contact only needs to know that everyone who had contact has been notified...and they can assume they are not on that list if they didn't get a call.

All this assumes they have reasonable ability to trace contact...which seems a little unlikely in a pool hall / bar setting so anyone there on the same night should probably be told...but again, HIPPA or no HIPPA...no real good can come of naming names unless the individual wants to do it themselves.

This isn't about "rights" or laws, it's just common courtesy.

The only thing funnier than people playing lawyer on the internet is when they start playing supreme court justice. You can argue that HIPPA indirectly kinda-sorta impacts employers but it definitely has nothing to do with the league operator unless he is also your proctologist.

 

[Bavafongoul]

He Is Looking To Get Sued If Anyone Dies.

The APA operator is messing around with people’s lives and needlessly putting his league players at risk.
I’d quit the league & complain to APA. No, he cannot reveal the identities of the people actually infected.

But he owes the league players details of a general nature. He could reveal the gender of the infected people.
Why? Because it relates to using the rest rooms. As a male, I’d be less worried when it’s the woman’s bathroom.

The Operator can say how many cases have been reported. He can reveal the league nights for any infected players.
The Operator can reveal the venues where these players played (home or away) and notify other locations if it’s appropriate.

The Operator has to assist with contact tracing and must notify everyone that played on the same dates as any infected players.
If the Operator does less, he’s being negligent. If anyone dies, then sue him for being negligent about the health & welfare of players.

 

[ideologist]

No, he cannot reveal the identities of the people actually infected.

Once the player discloses it, HIPAA protection is no longer in effect. So yes, the LO can absolutely disclose specifics like "a member of team X has a positive covid result, please go get tested everyone"

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Well here is the simple deal, if you are afraid of Covid - 19, afraid it will kill you, never leave your home. Order your food from Amazon, and everything else you need.

Some people want to live life, and do not worry about the sky fall on them, and killing them.

U.S.A.F. Base down the road from my trains JET Pilots, they make a lot of noise, fly over my home daily, but have never crashed into my home.

Do I worry about a Jet falling from the sky, killing me, destroying my home, hell no. Better chance of cutting myself shaving.

 

[NINEBALLART]

well here is the simple deal, if you are afraid of covid - 19, afraid it will kill you, never leave your home. Order your food from amazon, and everything else you need.

Some people want to live life, and do not worry about the sky fall on them, and killing them.

U.s.a.f. Base down the road from my trains jet pilots, they make a lot of noise, fly over my home daily, but have never crashed into my home.

Do i worry about a jet falling from the sky, killing me, destroying my home, hell no. Better chance of cutting myself shaving.

huh???????

 

[ideologist]

Well here is the simple deal, if you are afraid of Covid - 19, afraid it will kill you, never leave your home. Order your food from Amazon, and everything else you need.

Some people want to live life, and do not worry about the sky fall on them, and killing them.

U.S.A.F. Base down the road from my trains JET Pilots, they make a lot of noise, fly over my home daily, but have never crashed into my home.

Do I worry about a Jet falling from the sky, killing me, destroying my home, hell no. Better chance of cutting myself shaving.

https://imgur.com/gallery/xR1eUJ8

I'm not afraid of it killing me, I'm afraid of a lifetime of issues afterward.

Unfortunately, trash like you doesn't care

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

https://imgur.com/gallery/xR1eUJ8

I'm not afraid of it killing me, I'm afraid of a lifetime of issues afterward.

Unfortunately, trash like you doesn't care

There you go name calling again, I am so sure your parent are so proud of you.

How do you know so much about people you have never met?

Is it like your opinion of a Jackpot Cue, that you never saw in person, touched in person, or hit a ball with in person. But you pretent to be some expert.

 

[ideologist]

There you go name calling again, I am so sure your parent are so proud of you.

How do you know so much about people you have never met?

Is it like your opinion of a Jackpot Cue, that you never saw in person, touched in person, or hit a ball with in person. But you pretent to be some expert.

I owned a Jackpot cue, want to see the photos again? Absolute garbage quality which flew in the face of Dean's grandstanding and marketing.

I described you as trash, I didn't call you a name. Cocobolo Cowboy is insulting enough. If I called someone your name they would be insulted with me for making such an offensive comparison.

 

[MattPoland]

Time for me to turn off notifications on this thread. Participants turned it into ad hominem dumpster fire.


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[Black-Balled]

There you go name calling again, I am so sure your parent are so proud of you.

How do you know so much about people you have never met?

Is it like your opinion of a Jackpot Cue, that you never saw in person, touched in person, or hit a ball with in person. But you pretent to be some expert.

We learned about you from your consistently idiotic positions on damn near everything you post about.

You are definitely ignorant and potentially dangerous.

You continue to state your life of leisure is more important than the lives that might be impacted by your selfish choices.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

As far as requirements to disclose a name, I personally have never been through the process but because of privacy issues I would imagine there's no such requirement.

The requirement is this: valuing other peoples safety over a business "requirement" should not require any thought at all IMO. While I am at it , this particular couple I am speaking of are obviously very shallow and selfish people to not announce that they had it themselves and shame on the APA for not disclose it to the people who played with them. I am sure it could be "deduced" who they are, but, the adult thing to do for all parties is to disclose. Just my opinion and it feels right to me.

TFT

 

[APA Operator]

And 'when we learn of', is entirely dependent upon the infected person's self disclosure to you?

Why does 'how' matter? It only depends on that person's self disclosure to SOMEONE, so contact tracing can begin. We may learn of a case with or without knowing a name, the procedure is the same for us either way. Who was there at the time, inform them all, take whatever steps you need to prevent spread.

What's dependent on self-exposure is the person's participation in the first level of contact tracing (if you find out you're positive either trace it yourself or contact a tracer and tell them where YOU have been in the past X days). After that all we need to know is someone who has tested positive was at league in location A on this date, and we can propagate contact tracing without that name. We may or may not know the name, but I'm pretty sure we aren't required by law to disclose it. Our part doesn't depend on that.

 

[APA Operator]

The requirement is this: valuing other peoples safety over a business "requirement" should not require any thought at all IMO. While I am at it , this particular couple I am speaking of are obviously very shallow and selfish people to not announce that they had it themselves and shame on the APA for not disclose it to the people who played with them. I am sure it could be "deduced" who they are, but, the adult thing to do for all parties is to disclose. Just my opinion and it feels right to me.

TFT

You seem to have an issue with what you need to know (you may have been exposed to someone at location A if you were there on such-and-such date) and what you don't need to know (who it was so you can tear them down, even though they might not have known themselves at the time and did exactly what you did, and by the way did the adult thing by notifying SOMEONE that they have tested positive so contact tracing can begin). There's a difference, but it doesn't seem to matter to you. Can you tell me why you knowing a person's name says anything at all about my value for your (or anyone else's) safety? It doesn't even matter to me which bathroom they used, the fact that they were present in an indoor environment for a certain period of time is enough to expose everyone there. Are you really going to do anything different if you didn't use the restroom at all that night? The experts say everyone there should probably be tested. That seems to be maximum value for personal safety. Any discriminating info (like a name or gender) couldn't possibly imply more value.

There is a fine balance here between responsibility and privacy, and unfortunately there's no single well-defined tipping point. You can be sued over either. I still respect privacy as much as the law allows. Perhaps that's the difference between us.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Ever hear of heard immunity. In mylife time we have had Polio, Flu, Winter Cold Season, Ebola, and numerous other battles with sickness bugs.

There is no vaccine even for the common cold, and the one for the flu is not 100% perfect. But when was the last time people in the USA went nuts wearing masks, some even doing the mask face shield thing, plus rubber gloves.

I see people in their personal vehicles on the road by themselves, wearing a mask & gloves driving along not a care in the world. Car must be full of germs, maybe they need a car wash.

Some people are taking the Covid - 19 thing too seriously, two thing are going to happen to every living person, birth, then sooner or later death. No one can predict the date of each 100%, if you could, you must be GOD. IMHO

 

[maha]

anytime a business owner has information about something that is a danger to its customers they have a duty to fix it or at least disclose it. civil liability could be great.
having an infected person on the premises that you let stay and dont inform others can fall into that category.

an analogy that may be close, is you have a restaurant and found some food that can make customers sick or perhaps kill them but you dont know which food exactly it is. yet you continue to serve food that might be dangerous to eat and dont inform the customers of the danger..

the apa is walking on thin ice here.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

anytime a business owner has information about something that is a danger to its customers they have a duty to fix it or at least disclose it. civil liability could be great.
having an infected person on the premises that you let stay and dont inform others can fall into that category.

an analogy that may be close, is you have a restaurant and found some food that can make customers sick or perhaps kill them but you dont know which food exactly it is. yet you continue to serve food that might be dangerous to eat and dont inform the customers of the danger..

the apa is walking on thin ice here.

Remember when Chipote the Mexican Resturant has a problem with some contimnated produce, about kill the company off. Yes they are still in business, but they did not ever fully recover.

I use to eat there maybe once ever six week, have never been back. You might say big deal, they only lost a infrequent customer. But if I was one of 100,000 chain wide, that is a lot of dollar & cents.