APA player went up, how to approach LTC finals

boyersj

boyersj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
League question that I would like honest opinions because tonight we have match to qualify for NTC.

I have a SL6 who went up during the last match of tri-annuals to get into our LTC. We also had a SL4 who went up to a SL5. Our team make-up was 7-5-5-5-5-4-3-3 and now it is 7-6-5-5-5-5-3-3. The SL6 had let his new skill level affect his confidence. The SL5 who just moved up isn't worried about playing but I feel the SL6 feels left out because he used to be our lead-off guy and now both he and I cannot play because the SL4 that just went up as well.

How do I properly approach the situation? We became each other's option and I am favored in any match more so than he. I offered to sit tonight (team we will play will play 7-6-4-3-3 and I am favored against all of their players while our SL6 is probably a slight underdog to both their SL7 and SL6.

Any insight or advise would be very much appreciated!
 
First post but I'll take a stab at this one. APA is a team sport, you do what is best for the team. If your 7 is a team player he'll sit back and relax. He can still help the team, if he is a SL7 he should be able to handle any timeouts that come up which is a help to the team. Play the players you think can win while staying under the 23 rule. Any hurt feelings can quickly be healed by a nice vacation in Las Vegas. Good Luck!
 
Eye on the Goal

If the goal is to get to the NTC, you play the guys with the best shot of winning. The new 6 sits and the new 5 sits (unless they have always had the other guy's number). I've never been to Vegas (we've got our tournament starting tomorrow morning), and the team knows we are going into the City Cup with the goal of getting to Vegas. As captain, it's my job to figure out 1) our best posting options to ensure a win and 2) a reasonable way to give everyone a shot at helping us win.

In weekly play, #2 takes priority, whereas with the goal of getting to Vegas, #1 is going to take priority this weekend.

Good luck.
 
huntergate said:
First post but I'll take a stab at this one. APA is a team sport, you do what is best for the team. If your 7 is a team player he'll sit back and relax. He can still help the team, if he is a SL7 he should be able to handle any timeouts that come up which is a help to the team. Play the players you think can win while staying under the 23 rule. Any hurt feelings can quickly be healed by a nice vacation in Las Vegas. Good Luck!
Click to expand...

If it were me..I'm playing four fives an a three all the way through..its tough to sweat
playing two three's..to play a six/seven..to me it's giving games away..then trying to out
run the nut. To much like gambling...don't do it.

yep..I agree with your post..I aways try an do whats best for the team..some of
the people on my team in the past thought I wasn't being fair..because not everyone
played the same amount of games..so I asked him..do you want to win..or do you want
to play..then we asked the team as a whole..they wanted to win..but felt everyone should be able to play as well..so we voted on a new captain..I left the team a season later..they still run last..an complain about it..I went back toward the end of last sesson because their short handed..at the end of the day not everyone is going to be happy even if you win..but its better then loosing..
 
He'll have plenty of time to play next season. If he's off because he's tense about the SL change, then you play instead. as was said its about the TEAM getting to Vegas, not about who plays in the LTC.
 
Are your 5's all strong 5's? The obvious thing is play the 4 5's and your better 3. Remember that these are the S/L's you will play in Las Vegas with. The good thing is that all of your players can still play, you can lead off with anyone and still have options. If you lead off with your 7 they know what your going to do, but if you guys are cocky you may not care, it's the "Try to stop us" attitude. What I have done in past similar situations is no matter what, win the toss, lose the toss doesn't matter, lead off with your strongest 3 or any of your 5's. Maybe you win, maybe you lose that first match, but you control the match ups after that and you still haven't given up anything in the way of who's gonna play. Chances are they go after that first win so they put up a higher S/L player and now you pretty much know who they play for the rest of the match and you know they will likely have to sacrifice a match later with one of their lower S/L players. Remember, this isn't league night and you only have to win 3 (if you're still using the older scoring system). I would never count on a 2 or a 3 to have to win, so if they do it's a bonus but the hard part is that your better players have to play their best. After that first match up, win or lose, take inventory and match up smart. At this point you're playing to win, not to make sure that everybody plays. If someone is mad because they didn't play then they can be mad at you all the way to Las Vegas and you all can have a drink and work it out at the out door bar at the Flamingo. I have a sneaking suspicion once you all are there they'll get over it.
But read your team, if everyone is playing well and is loose, you may want to smack the other team with your 6 or 7. Look at it this way - if you know you're gonna win, what difference does it make? Sometimes you just know, you know?
 
I agree with the comments about playing 5-5-5-5-3 against the other team's roster. I would also try to match up your 3 against their 7. Would be pretty tough to lose the finals unless everybody on your team played terrible.

Sometimes the best lineup doesn't include the best player which in this case is you since you have to make some sacrifices if you do play. As far as the 6 who moved up, just tell him he moved up for a reason and the extra game really doesn't make that much of a difference. If you play well you will win and if you don't you will lose. If I were you at the beginning of next season I would sit out more and let him get more comfortable at the higher skill level. It is just a mental hurdles that needs to be overcome. Good luck tonight.
 
We just finished a end of session tournament in USAPL. I put my 125 up against a 78 by choice and it turned out to be the decision that won the match. I also put him up in another match to bait the other captain into playing his (imo) best point earner who was a 35. He put her up and my 125 smoked her 130ish to 20! I also used my 40 to my advantage and she did a good job. I always put up first and I always put up a player they had no idea who would be best against....mid range handicap player with a lot of heart. It was great...if I lost the coin toss they had me put up first and if I won I put up first. One captain spouted off his first player once I had won the toss. I had to correct him by letting him know he would be putting up second. :cool:

My point...

Every match is different. Take inventory of all your options, learn all you can about the other team and how they like to match up then come up with a solution which allows you your best chance to win.

Simply looking at your handicap numbers is not enough in my opinion. Study your opponent and exploit their weaknesses.

Lastly, as a 125 myself I chose to sit all weekend since the other 125 was playing damn near perfect that weekend. I coached, kept score, and cheer led. We fell short but 2nd wasn't bad for a team who's main goal is entertainment.

Good luck tonight!

Ken
 
I didn't notice in the OP, is this 8-ball or 9-ball?

It's not a huge difference, but the four 5's and a 3 option is probly the better option in9-ball, whereas with 8-ball you only need three wins. A strong 7 and a strong 5 often gives you a good shot in 8-ball, under the old one-win, one-point system.

My 9-ball team is facing a similar dilemma, as we have had six of our eight players go up this session....sigh. we will likely have to go the four 5's and one 3 route.
 
All comments are consistent with what we have done. I told my team captain (he is the new SL5). That I like our 5-5-5-5-3 lineup but since he is the newest member of that club and our better SL5 (just went up) isn't - he doesn't have as much faith.

Anyhow we always lead with 5-3-5 or 5-5-3. This way we still have option of 5-5 or 7-3 at the end. if the closing match is against a 5 or higher, I play. If they only have 4s and lower, we play 2 5s. If we need both wins, we play both 5s. Our team is 9-0 in playoffs/tricups/LTC since fall session and no one is now really on the brink of going up so we are all just really solid within our current skill level (except the two newly advanced).

As far as sitting out, I actually let the new SL6 play most matches - he played the other teams best players and dropped from a new sl6 at the end of the fall tri-cup to a sl5 during spring session and then just went back up to SL6 during the spring tri-cup. Yes we are fortunate that everyone can play - in fact we have pretty good room for movement it just would affect our flexibility at the end of a match which puts so much pressure on other teams to win 2/3 against 2 good 5s and a good 3.

As far as suggestions on next session - I told the team I should be the one leaving and let the team continue to develop based on what I taught them this year (5 of them had been together for a few years, me and my "student" SL5 joined along with the captains dad this year). They are afraid I will go to another team and teach them how to beat the though *lol*
 
justadub said:
I didn't notice in the OP, is this 8-ball or 9-ball?

It's not a huge difference, but the four 5's and a 3 option is probly the better option in9-ball, whereas with 8-ball you only need three wins. A strong 7 and a strong 5 often gives you a good shot in 8-ball, under the old one-win, one-point system.

My 9-ball team is facing a similar dilemma, as we have had six of our eight players go up this session....sigh. we will likely have to go the four 5's and one 3 route.
Click to expand...

Sorry dub - its 8 ball.
 
I think your strategy for LTCs is sound.

As for going forward, if you haven't converted to the new match scoring system yet, you will be soon, and it may make a difference as far as who you might play.

Having a couple very strong players, ones who are capable of shut outs, will be very valuable. Perhaps that will factor into your roster decisions...
 
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I entered your tracking number and got this response in Indonesian language:
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How long ago was this shipped? Maybe it got caught up in German customs?
 
Agree with the 5-5-5-5-3
Depending on how strong my 3 is. I may attempt to stick my 3 against the 7. Otherwise I put my strongest 5 against their 7, a 2 game drop for a 5 is good "IF" they are strong! But you can't afford to lose your best 5 to their 7. If their 7 is guaranteed to beat any of my players I dump my weakest in their skill level, and put my best 5 against their 6. 5's are great to use because you have a lot of control over each match.
 
depends mostly on your players.....how strong is your 7? how strong are your 3's? because you are going to have to play both of your 3's to play the 7 which may not be the best bet. I am going to Vegas in August again for my 6th time in 12 years and I captained all of my teams. I am a very strong 7 myself and I probably wouldn't sit myself, but I would sit towards the end of the matchups if a better option presented itself. The main thing to do is don't show your hand early. You are probably going to play 2-5's and 1-3 no matter what, so make sure to play those as your 1st three matches and try to match up well if you know the other team. If it comes down to where you are up 2-1 after 3 matches and you have control of your putups in the final 2 and you feel very much confident in matching your 7 up as an almost sure win, then go that route. Just remember though you don't necessarily have to throw a 7 on a 7 or your strongest 5 on their 7. If your 5's are strong though, 4-5's and 1 3 is tough to matchup against if your 5's can spot lower ranks easily.
 
Based strictly on your numbers, since I obviously don't know any of your players:

Ignore anyone who says 5-5-5-5-3 is your line up; 5-5-5-5-3 is one of your options.
The other option, as you've stated is 7-5-5-3-3. Your 6 doesn't play. Sorry that's the breaks.
And barring some monster 3 or 5, or if your 6 is decidedly stronger than your 7, there isn't any reason to play under 23.

You do exactly what you mentioned a few posts back, lead with 5s hoping for a chance to throw your weaker 3 off on one of their big numbers.
You take a shot at beating the other big number, but your goal is to beat their 4-3-3.
It's generally pretty easy to keep both options available until one of the two becomes the clear choice. Winning the toss would be a huge help. But, it seems you know all of this.

Good luck.
 
It might be too late, but here goes. The 6 rides pine if the team needs it, period. We're playing 55733 all the way, which makes our 6 a cheerleader. That said, the question isn't you vs. him; it's (6 and 4) against (7 and 3). So if the 4 is better than the 3 by a wider margin than you are better than the 6, then 6 and 4 could be right. Also, it matters if you're up 2-1 (lean towards the 7 and 3) or down 2-1 (lean towards the 6 and 4) and whether you think the other team can and will duck you with a low handicap player.

For all those who think 55553 is strong, 5s tend to match up pretty badly against 6s, so I would avoid that line up against a roster with a few 6s. Back in the day, my 66623 team played a 55553 team in a match that barely took an hour for something like a 15-2 overall win for the 6s.

Good luck
 
This is what I would do, and I have many times, though obviously not with the same numbers you have. Put up your strongest 3 first and if he/she wins, play the other 3, the 7, and your 2 strongest 5s. If the 3 loses the first match, play four 5s.
 
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