APA Rankings

[Cue of Fury]

Well, I found that in the APA there is no bouncing because that would indicate going down AND up. My experiences were that the main point was to keep your sl as low as possible so you can win and go to Vegas. That doesn't work for me. I like to strive to play up to my newly raised level. Unfortunately most of the other players were like, "Shit, this sucks not being able to win as much.....back down I go."

 

[FLICKit]

Well, I found that in the APA there is no bouncing because that would indicate going down AND up. My experiences were that the main point was to keep your sl as low as possible so you can win and go to Vegas. That doesn't work for me. I like to strive to play up to my newly raised level. Unfortunately most of the other players were like, "Shit, this sucks not being able to win as much.....back down I go."

Then you haven't even come close to seeing the whole experience.

No wonder why you're so anti....

If that's all you saw, then I'd expect you to be negative.

 

[Cue of Fury]

What else is there to the "whole experience"? What wonderful aspects have I missed?

 

[FLICKit]

Him being a 3 or a 2 doesn't make a whole lot of difference really.

Oh.... and for the record there is a quite a difference between a 2 or a 3. With a 2, you're talking about a very beginner or entry level player. People who have had absolutely no experience with pool at all, would be considered a 2. A higher end 2 would be a bit more advanced than that, but not much.

A 3 on the other hand, could be someone who has had lotsa experience playing pool. A 3 may be able to pocket balls, and even string a number together, but a 3 struggles with consistency. But, with a little training in the right direction, even from a good coach or teammate, this player can develop and progress.

That's why you've seen some posts, where the whole team has progressed, developed and increased in abilities & skill level. Those teams usually go on to be successful (as was posted 3rd place in Nationals).

If you catch this 3 on an upward trend in abilities, then you may not be happy with the whoopin that will be given. This is where most players that lose, will automatically assume the sandbagging clause. But, you have to look at that players history to have any idea. That's one of the reasons that there are many more claims of sandbagging, than actually exist.

As was discussed in an earlier thread real sandbagging, usually requires having an extra level or two behind ya. And having the confidence to know, that when the chips are down, you can draw on that level to pull you through.

That would be deemed intentional cheating. Intentional cheating can be done against any system at any time. Nothing can be done to prevent it. That's why every system should use some method of monitoring in order to minimize its effects. There is plenty of monitoring going on at the National Level & others in order to prevent intentional cheating.

 

[cuesmith]

The handicap system in the APA holds absolutely no credibility! It's tainted by all of the sandbagging caused by the 23 rule. The 23 rule is only to produce more teams and more money for the owners of the APA! They'll try to convince you that it's to keep teams from being stacked up with the better players, when it's obvious that if they had a handicap system that worked, this would be moot point! Face it, it's all about money. The system was devised by a couple of the best hustlers of our time! I feel that the APA is detrimental to the sport. Instead of rewarding players for improving, it penalizes them! What kind of a system is that?

Just more hot air!

Sherm

 

[Cue of Fury]

The handicap system in the APA holds absolutely no credibility! It's tainted by all of the sandbagging caused by the 23 rule. The 23 rule is only to produce more teams and more money for the owners of the APA! They'll try to convince you that it's to keep teams from being stacked up with the better players, when it's obvious that if they had a handicap system that worked, this would be moot point! Face it, it's all about money. The system was devised by a couple of the best hustlers of our time! I feel that the APA is detrimental to the sport. Instead of rewarding players for improving, it penalizes them! What kind of a system is that?

Just more hot air!

Sherm

 

[frankncali]

The handicap system in the APA holds absolutely no credibility! It's tainted by all of the sandbagging caused by the 23 rule. The 23 rule is only to produce more teams and more money for the owners of the APA! They'll try to convince you that it's to keep teams from being stacked up with the better players, when it's obvious that if they had a handicap system that worked, this would be moot point! Face it, it's all about money. The system was devised by a couple of the best hustlers of our time! I feel that the APA is detrimental to the sport. Instead of rewarding players for improving, it penalizes them! What kind of a system is that?

Just more hot air!

Sherm

I dont believe that the APA is penalizing players for getting better but rather the player dont look at pool like a "pool player". Even though I dont know you I know that YOU are a pool player. Most players in the APA are not.
Its a huge difference. If you and I played even and then I started getting
better then you would work harder and try to get back to even or ahead.
APA players play short races which makes handicapping almost impossible and
most are not "pool players".
While the system does force higher rated players to change teams it does not force them out. Its the the players that do the sandbagging and the
worrying about going up. APA players that are pool players are the ones that
are going up and are the ones you see at local and regional events. The rest
just play pool.
Another thought is that most APA players are not overly competitive. Being
a team member and coming out socailly is what they are looking for. If they
are a losing team member then they feel they are a liability. Many become afraid to play for fear of losing and being ousted from the team.

Any player can strive to make themselves better. The system does not force them down its just the mentality of the players.

As for the 23 point rule....raise it to 25 and see how many low rated players the league gets. No one wants to go 1-10 every session. It would be great for 5-7s but it would really be bad for the low rated players.
In any level of competition the cream will always rise to the top and win. Why should the APA be any different? The higher skill levels win more.
By raising the SL the APA would be lowering the win % of the lower rated players.
The APA has flaws but its not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
I would guessimate that theres only about 10-15% of the sandbagging going on compared to whats talked about.

 

[catscradle]

I dont believe that the APA is penalizing players for getting better but rather the player dont look at pool like a "pool player". Even though I dont know you I know that YOU are a pool player. Most players in the APA are not.

Very true which is ok.

...
Another thought is that most APA players are not overly competitive. Being
a team member and coming out socailly is what they are looking for. If they
are a losing team member then they feel they are a liability. Many become afraid to play for fear of losing and being ousted from the team.
Any player can strive to make themselves better. The system does not force them down its just the mentality of the players.

Again, dead on.

As for the 23 point rule....raise it to 25 and see how many low rated players the league gets. No one wants to go 1-10 every session. It would be great for 5-7s but it would really be bad for the low rated players.
In any level of competition the cream will always rise to the top and win. Why should the APA be any different? The higher skill levels win more.
By raising the SL the APA would be lowering the win % of the lower rated players.

That's what I've always said. Even if the motivation of the APA is actually to generate more money, the net effect is it gives new players a place to get started. Maybe they'll never rise above a low rank, or maybe they'll go on to be a good player, but they may not have started if somebody wasn't in need of a low-ranked player.

The APA has flaws but its not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
I would guessimate that theres only about 10-15% of the sandbagging going on compared to whats talked about.

I said this in an earlier post and agree with it whole heartedly. There is the appearence of much more sandbagging because of the normal ups and downs of a players game. The weaker the player the more extreme the ups and downs, and the greater the appearance of sandbagging.

 

[Snapshot9]

How do you know ...

How do you know the APA is not that bad unless you have also
played BCA and Valley?

I have thought about handicapping a lot, and how to equate it fairly
between the APA, BCA, Valley, and money skill level to where each
and every player is rated fairly when he goes to play in a handicapped
tournament. It works for 8 ball and 9 ball.

It involves using a standard to determine overall skill level, and then
equate it to a proper BCA, Valley, And APA skill level for league.
To explain it fully would be rather lengthy, lets just say I use
10 ball as the barometer standard with monetary incentives to
shoot your best and not sandbag your skill. Players have to pay
to get rated, and the better they shoot the more money they get
back, and can even make money if they shoot well enough.

Since 10 ball is scored like bowling, 300 is the best, so dividing
your 10 ball score by 4 would give you a 5 man BCA rating for
8 ball less the x complexity percentage given for the complexity of 8
ball compared to 10 ball.

Say someone scored 220 on 10 ball, that would be a 55 BCA 5 man
rating less, say 12% because 8 ball is more complex than 10 ball.
That would bring the person down to 48 with rounding.

You would do the same conversion for Valley, and for APA. That
way your skill level can be determined for all major leagues (get
rated at a tournament might depend on a league rating or equivalent).

Most players that play for money already have a money skill level that
other people assign to them, most of them are 9 ball ratings. They are
a 5 or 7, maybe a 10 (9 ball ratings go from 2-12 normally).

Then billiard rooms in a city could share the master listing, so all
billiard rooms in a city would know how to rate players that play
in their tournaments.

Something like this can work.

 

[FLICKit]

How do you know the APA is not that bad unless you have also
played BCA and Valley?

I have thought about handicapping a lot, and how to equate it fairly
between the APA, BCA, Valley, and money skill level to where each
and every player is rated fairly when he goes to play in a handicapped
tournament. It works for 8 ball and 9 ball.

It involves using a standard to determine overall skill level, and then
equate it to a proper BCA, Valley, And APA skill level for league.
To explain it fully would be rather lengthy, lets just say I use
10 ball as the barometer standard with monetary incentives to
shoot your best and not sandbag your skill. Players have to pay
to get rated, and the better they shoot the more money they get
back, and can even make money if they shoot well enough.

Since 10 ball is scored like bowling, 300 is the best, so dividing
your 10 ball score by 4 would give you a 5 man BCA rating for
8 ball less the x complexity percentage given for the complexity of 8
ball compared to 10 ball.

Say someone scored 220 on 10 ball, that would be a 55 BCA 5 man
rating less, say 12% because 8 ball is more complex than 10 ball.
That would bring the person down to 48 with rounding.

You would do the same conversion for Valley, and for APA. That
way your skill level can be determined for all major leagues (get
rated at a tournament might depend on a league rating or equivalent).

Most players that play for money already have a money skill level that
other people assign to them, most of them are 9 ball ratings. They are
a 5 or 7, maybe a 10 (9 ball ratings go from 2-12 normally).

Then billiard rooms in a city could share the master listing, so all
billiard rooms in a city would know how to rate players that play
in their tournaments.

Something like this can work.

The APA system has proven to be very successful over other systems. That not only involves rating, but organizational, and monetary awards (i.e. over $1 million in cash awarded at the National Tournament). That's one of the big reasons why their national tournaments are so big, likely even the bigggest of all other. They've been groundbreakers regarding their success at bringing in new pool players and developing such a large pool market, that now others are able to seek benefit from. Instead of giving them their accolades for what APA has achieved, many others seek solely to bash and tear down at every opportunity they get. If you can't give any credit for what they've achieved, then obviously there are ulterior motives at play.

As far as further discussions on this matter there is a new thread that is better suited for you to discuss matters of various other rating and league systems.

 

[Loun]

I was up tol 4am reading this entire thread last night and I finally finished just now... The entire time I was thinking there is one thing that noone has touched on... then at the very end someone hit it on the head in my opinion. I am a sales and marketing guy and the one thing that most of you failed to mention is how the league is also a business.

The 23 rule forces people to start new teams when players start to get good. New teams = more money coming in. I realize that more money coming in also means more prize money, more trips, and so on BUT I really feel a lot of what happens in the APA is more about the money rather than the advancement of the sport. Im not saying that is a huge problem because as a business its better if its making money than if it wasnt... however its gotta walk a fine line between not helping the andvancement of the sport and straight out hurting it.

Ive been playing pool for less than a year now (more like 10 months or so) This spring session was my first session in the APA, I started as a 4 then went to a 3 for 1 week, then back up to a 4, then 3 weeks ago i went up to a 5, I won my first game against a stronger five, then last week I lost to a 5 that was more like a 6. Im not making excuses as to me being a 5 challenges me more and im getting more fun out of it. However on that same note it would be fun to play well in the playoffs and move on and go to vegas. That gets harder to do when I consider myself a borderline 5 (4.5) and im playing strong 5's (6 - 6.5 in reality) who have been in the league for a while. One of our new people was going back and forth between a 4 and a 5 for 4 weeks in a row, if he won he went up if he lost he went down... he went up to a 5 then got beaten 2 weeks in a row by 4's (all 5 or 6+ inning games) and is still a 5. Its just does not seem to be consistant enough.

There is also one thing some of you have also hit on... 6 out of 8 people on my team were brand new to the APA and all started out playing as SL4's, and 1 SL3 even though a couple of the older guys could compete with 6's and 7's if they were having a good day. Everyone for the most part has slowly gone up, and they will go up furhter as more games are played.

We put the team together to have fun, give the older guys something to do, and see how far we can get while doing it. So I guess with all of that said, I dont think the APA is a bad league I just think it is extremely difficult to successfully compete in it because almost everyone and their brother are not correctly rated for one reason or another. Also I know it would be better if i could come up with an idea how to make it more accurate but i havent been involved long enough to even know where to begin.

I dont know much about what other leagues are available but I think im taking the summer off from all leagues just to practice and develop my skill and I think we are reforming the team in the fall.

 

[Loun]

One other thing and im unsure how this works as I havent called the LO on it and probably should have... one of our better older players went into the hospital 5 weeks ago and had half his jaw removed and will obviously not be playing any longer. We have missed him the last 5 weeks but were able to squeeze into the playoffs. Mind you I care more about him recovering than playing in the playoffs but is there anything in the APA that would allow for a substitute player if it was necessary? Maybe someone with a known APA ranking from another team in the division that didnt make it. Theres at least 2 players on the team that no longer play with us so it gets tough on game night.

Figured id ask to see if any of you knew, we can play with what we have as long as noone gets sick, has to work, or cant take time off to play in the playoffs or vegas if it got to that point.

 

[FLICKit]

I was up tol 4am reading this entire thread last night and I finally finished just now... The entire time I was thinking there is one thing that noone has touched on... then at the very end someone hit it on the head in my opinion. I am a sales and marketing guy and the one thing that most of you failed to mention is how the league is also a business.

The 23 rule forces people to start new teams when players start to get good. New teams = more money coming in. I realize that more money coming in also means more prize money, more trips, and so on BUT I really feel a lot of what happens in the APA is more about the money rather than the advancement of the sport. Im not saying that is a huge problem because as a business its better if its making money than if it wasnt... however its gotta walk a fine line between not helping the andvancement of the sport and straight out hurting it.

Let me start by saying, it's interesting how without enough full knowledge, it's human nature to automatically assume the worst. Agreed, the 23 rule does help to grow teams and thus grow leagues. Note, that's not the only reason it's that way. I'd likely presume that it's not even the primary reason it was created. Most people without the full knowledge would probably automatically disagree....... (will elaborate more after they do)

One major reason for the 23-rule, is that if you encounter a typical group of players around a pool table (note typical, not focusing on those few groups of very experienced players) who have had very little to no league experience. There will essentially be a group of average players, some below average players, and some better/advanced players. If this whole group joined, when their handicaps were accurately determined, they'd be at or near 23. Thus, they'd have a reasonable opportunity to compete against the other teams, and have a legitimate chance to win. This fulfills the APA motto, "everyone can play, anyone can win". This is unlike other leagues, whereby you essentially have to stack your team, in order to have a chance, and, you'd have to have advanced knowledge of exactly how to stack the team. In those, you can often tell at least 2 of the top teams before the season even begins. Now, going back to the typical group... this also encourages the whole group of friends to participate and play together. The lower rated players are most reluctanct to join any formal competition, because they aren't good enough. But, in the APA, there is a place and need for those players as well. So, it actually allows for those friends to stay together, play, and have fun.

Ive been playing pool for less than a year now (more like 10 months or so) This spring session was my first session in the APA, I started as a 4 then went to a 3 for 1 week, then back up to a 4, then 3 weeks ago i went up to a 5, I won my first game against a stronger five, then last week I lost to a 5 that was more like a 6. Im not making excuses as to me being a 5 challenges me more and im getting more fun out of it. However on that same note it would be fun to play well in the playoffs and move on and go to vegas. That gets harder to do when I consider myself a borderline 5 (4.5) and im playing strong 5's (6 - 6.5 in reality) who have been in the league for a while. One of our new people was going back and forth between a 4 and a 5 for 4 weeks in a row, if he won he went up if he lost he went down... he went up to a 5 then got beaten 2 weeks in a row by 4's (all 5 or 6+ inning games) and is still a 5. Its just does not seem to be consistant enough.

As has already been stated, the APA allows players to bounce a bit at the beginning, in order to better assess the player's true rating. In other words, finish the season, and then see how accurately most of the players are rated.

Another human nature, is that you frequently believe that you are overrated, while your opponents are under-rated. This idea gets confirmed and locked in, even with very little supporting information. For example, you always notice someone else's great games, and often notice your own bad games. Rarely do you focus on everyone else's bad games, and your own great ones.

There is also one thing some of you have also hit on... 6 out of 8 people on my team were brand new to the APA and all started out playing as SL4's, and 1 SL3 even though a couple of the older guys could compete with 6's and 7's if they were having a good day. Everyone for the most part has slowly gone up, and they will go up furhter as more games are played.

This is one of the prime reasons, why APA bounces players around a bit at the beginning. If they don't, then your 4's, who can compete with 6's and 7's, would remain underrated throughout much of the season. By adjusting their handicaps, it'll be more likely to accurately rate them within a shorter period of time.

We put the team together to have fun, give the older guys something to do, and see how far we can get while doing it. So I guess with all of that said, I dont think the APA is a bad league I just think it is extremely difficult to successfully compete in it because almost everyone and their brother are not correctly rated for one reason or another. Also I know it would be better if i could come up with an idea how to make it more accurate but i havent been involved long enough to even know where to begin.

As has been stated, you don't have enough league experience yet. I wouldn't recommend you believing that you understand all the problems and all the solutions, just yet. Once again, for some, that's human nature, you want to be involved. I suggest that you give it more time, and allow the system to work on its own, as it has for so many years now. You may even be surprised to discover that many things you once thought were wrong, actually work out better than you had originally thought. But that all comes with understanding.

I dont know much about what other leagues are available but I think im taking the summer off from all leagues just to practice and develop my skill and I think we are reforming the team in the fall.

Feel free to take a season off. But, you may discover that you'll get more practice and skill development by continuing through the summer, even if you have to join a different team for one season. Those seasoned veterans could very well wind up providing you with much valuable information that would serve useful for when your team returns in the Fall. Of course, you'll have to decide what works best for you.

 

[FLICKit]

One other thing and im unsure how this works as I havent called the LO on it and probably should have... one of our better older players went into the hospital 5 weeks ago and had half his jaw removed and will obviously not be playing any longer. We have missed him the last 5 weeks but were able to squeeze into the playoffs. Mind you I care more about him recovering than playing in the playoffs but is there anything in the APA that would allow for a substitute player if it was necessary? Maybe someone with a known APA ranking from another team in the division that didnt make it. Theres at least 2 players on the team that no longer play with us so it gets tough on game night.

Figured id ask to see if any of you knew, we can play with what we have as long as noone gets sick, has to work, or cant take time off to play in the playoffs or vegas if it got to that point.

No substitutes.

That's why you're allowed to have 5 to 8 players on a team. These additional players are your substitutes. Some teams try to streamline their rosters, but that puts them in the unfortunate situation of being more susceptible to mishaps. The team and the captain have some leeway to account for contingencies when creating their teams. It's always wise to have an additional mid to lower range player on the team, just in case.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

No substitutes.

That's why you're allowed to have 5 to 8 players on a team. These additional players are your substitutes. Some teams try to streamline their rosters, but that puts them in the unfortunate situation of being more susceptible to mishaps. The team and the captain have some leeway to account for contingencies when creating their teams. It's always wise to have an additional mid to lower range player on the team, just in case.

Actually, under some circumstances, LO's are allowed to grant teams the right to make a roster change but only in the event that matches will surely be forfeited. This is meant to be done in rare exceptions and I believe this is a rule that should be exercised during the regular season. For additional information, you can refer to your Rule Book regarding "Closing Team Rosters" or speak with your LO. If this team made the play-offs, you may not have a substantial argument for such an exception.

 

[Loun]

ok... as i said im the first to admit that I have only 1 session in the league and have limited experience in that respect, I was the first to mention that and I understand that. HOWEVER I am essentially my team captain so I have dealt with a lot more than most beginner first session players. I also believe that in some respects we (me and you) may have similar personalities in the respect that I wont get involved in something unless I understand all aspects of it. If I dont understand an aspect of it I dont sleep until I do. Hence I have been reading all night trying to get as much of a handle on the rating system before making too many judgements on it.

What I can tell you without a doubt is that within my 1 session of experience there are a NUMBER of players who are severely underrated and they have been playing in the APA for years not sessions... I've heard stories of people playing in an extra sessions and losing almost the entire season so they can get back to a 3 or 4 or 5. Ive heard of people playing 2 nights a week and losing 1 night so they can try to keep their rank while winning the other night. (im sure a llot of you have heard these stories as well) I have seen the APA system not seem to update player rankings when there should be no reason that player did not go up. Ive seen players on the bubble go up and stay up even though they legitimately have gotten beaten by lower ranked players in longer inning games, in consecutive weeks. And I definitely have been on the recieving end (pun intended) of a strong lack of communication and or responses to my messages left at the league office.

I have photocopies of all scoresheets from this session, I have notes on almost all of the players and teams we have played, i have notes on all the tables and bars we have played. I am not the "average APA'er" thats there just for a social night out, I overanalyze everything and in some sick twisted way I enjoy doing it. My club has 2 teams two nights of the week and on both nights we are 1 and 2 in the division (my team is the oddball as we actually tied for second on our night, if our best player didnt miss the last 5 weeks it would have been different ). I play pool almost every day and or night of the week, with guys from all different local teams we play... I am striving to understand the game and at the same time improve mine.

So the one thing I ask is that you don't patronize me continuely referring back to, well you are new so how would you know, or give it some time so you can really see how it works, and so on. Its not like that...

With all of that said, Im the first to admit that I have a lot to learn, which is why some of us are actually here... to learn from the experience of others. But please do not tell me that time is going to equalize the field as that simply is not true, time allows the system to be manipulated. I dont know how the field can be equalized under a handicapping method as handicapping in general allows opportunities for those who want to cheat.

One thing that I do agree with you on is, as far as people thinking they are overrated, and that their opponents are underrated, while this might be human nature... sometimes its actually true. I definitely do not give myself enough credit on the table as I think im an average 4 yet I can at least be in the game as a 5... BUT id actually prefer to be a 5 as it challenges me to play harder/smarter and I get better but sometimes thats tough when you are playing a very conservatively rated 5.

Again with everything said above... my experience so far in the APA hasnt been a horrible one, its something to do that everyone can play in, its fairly cheap entertainment if you are just looking for a night out or a way to get your group to do something. It also brings money into the local bars and businesses... I understand that avenue of things. I guess if one is looking for a competitive league they should look into some other league but if they are looking for just fun then the APA is a good league for that.

I guess another thing we have in common is that we are both extremely long winded and probably annoy the hell out of other members here

 

[Loun]

"If this team made the play-offs, you may not have a substantial argument for such an exception."

The arguement would be more for if we made it through the playoffs and were unable to get everyone out to vegas. 1 guy has been in the hospital for the past 5 weeks or so (god bless him), another guy has recently purchased the house from hell and has been working on it trying to make it livable every night for hte past 4 weeks, we have 1 player who is 68 and falling apart lol so who knows if he would make the plane trip with us. That leaves 5 players who potentially could make that trip. If 1 of them arent able to take a full week off from work to make the trip (we arent professional players so work has to take priority since families are involved) we could (if we won here of course) consievably be in a predicament where we would be going to vegas with a 4 person team... This is both best and worst case scenarios working together but I like to plan ahead so its at least a little less stress if and when it happens.

I will contact the LO at some point and ask. Thank you for your input.

 

[Cue of Fury]

Unless you've played in at least one other system, you cannot make any sort of meaningful comparison/contrast. You can talk about the one system that you're in, but don't make assumptions about any other system when you have not even played in it.

 

[Loun]

Unless you've played in at least one other system, you cannot make any sort of meaningful comparison/contrast. You can talk about the one system that you're in, but don't make assumptions about any other system when you have not even played in it.

Cue of Fury.. please let me know where I have specically mentioned how another league works. Im pretty sure the only thing i mentioned even close to talking about another league was "I guess if one is looking for a competitive league they should look into some other league" and I dont think i was specifically comparing anything to anything.. so again lets get away from ... "well your knew so how can you talk" responses. Because I dont think im talking over my head or about things in which I dont know anything about. I wouldnt put myself in that situation.

 

[FLICKit]

Again with everything said above... my experience so far in the APA hasnt been a horrible one, its something to do that everyone can play in, its fairly cheap entertainment if you are just looking for a night out or a way to get your group to do something. It also brings money into the local bars and businesses... I understand that avenue of things.

I guess another thing we have in common is that we are both extremely long winded and probably annoy the hell out of other members here

Nice to hear you have positive statements as well to say about your league experience.

My intention was not to patronize you, and hearing that you believe I came across that way, then please accept my apologies.

You are quite an analyzer and I am impressed. Your zealousness is clearly noted. My only suggestion is patience, my friend.

Agreed it doesn't mean that they aren't underrated. My point has been that people are often quick to assume that someone else is misrated (usually underrated when an opponent), and that people on your own team are overrated. I know you understand that, and there is no reason to further repeat that. No need beating a dead horse. If the ratings are accurate within 1 skill level, then that's pretty good, and if they are within 1/2 a skill level, then that's really good. If they are not, then often times they will be caught and handled accordingly.

You have expressed some areas of intentional cheating, and as has been stated, that is an unfortunate aspect of human nature. As a result, handling those situations require additional measures. Surprisingly enough the APA system already accounts for this to a large degree. Since the best 10 of your last 20 matches are used for your rating, then sandbagging on an additional night will have very minimal effects on your rating. Your best matches will still be the determining factor.

Many of the other issues you've raised is also already addressed in the system.

As with any handicapping system, more knowledge of it, increases the ability to cheat it. As a result, no player knows all the specifics of the system. There are many extraneous checks in the system, so for many who believe they are overrated, this can often be the reason why.


This conversation calls for a reference to the Serenity prayer

Lord please grant me
the courage to change the things that I can
the intelligence to know the things I can not change
and the wisdom to know the difference