APA rating question

This is straight from the APA team manual regarding defensive shots:

A Defensive Shot is a shot where the shooter deliberately misses so as to pass his turn at the table to his opponent. Simply stated, it is a shot where there is no intent on the part of the shooter to legally pocket a ball of his category.

If the above applies to the shot in question, mark a defensive shot for that player.
 
hang-the-9 said:
I have seen people call a shot to a pocket blocked by 2 other balls instead of calling a safe, then move the cueball to the other side of the table behind another ball after this "miss". I mark is as a safe anyway. I don't deal well with cheats.
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I ageee completely In the scenario you describe . Just curious here.....how would you mark a 2 way shot ?
 
I believe that defensive shots are objective. Many people don't tell you they are going to play a defensive shot,
personally I don't. If I think you shot a safe, I will mark as such and I'll tell the opposing score keeper to do the
same for me if I'm asked.

So many people don't have any clue what a defensive shot is and it's reasonably pointless to try and tell them.
In higher level tournaments, where it seem to matter the most I've seen score keepers mark every miss as a safe
and some not mark obvious safes.

I don't think you can really argue about it. I wouldn't be forced into changing my score sheet,
I can't think of anyone else that would either. You'd like them to match but they don't always and they don't have to
 
lorider said:
I ageee completely In the scenario you describe . Just curious here.....how would you mark a 2 way shot ?
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If there was more than a 50/50 shot of making the ball in my opinion and they were actually close to the pocket, I'd call it a shot not a safe. But I see people shoot a shot, call the pocket, but miss by half a foot and move the cueball in a bad place for the opponent. Sorry, nice try buddy, you played a safe LOL Even if he at least tried to carom of a ball or something. The specific example he shot straight into the blocking ball head one, and the ball was at least a foot from the pocket.
 
Celophanewrap said:
I believe that defensive shots are objective. Many people don't tell you they are going to play a defensive shot,
personally I don't. If I think you shot a safe, I will mark as such and I'll tell the opposing score keeper to do the
same for me if I'm asked.
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If you are in a league where they need defense for scoring, you should call a safe when playing one. Sure a good experienced player would see it as a safe, but not all league scorekeepers are experienced players.
 
hang-the-9 said:
If you are in a league where they need defense for scoring, you should call a safe when playing one. Sure a good experienced player would see it as a safe, but not all league scorekeepers are experienced players.
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It's been my experience that calling one or not makes little difference, at least here, I suspect it's like that in many places.
The onus is on the score keeper. Whether or not it's a defensive shot is at their discretion.

If you assume that the shooter will say that they are playing a defensive shot, then you'd have to assume if they don't say so it's not.
So what if the shooter doesn't say anything but you as the score keeper believe it is a safety?

Logic would dictate that you don't mark a defensive shot. If you take it upon yourself to mark one anyway what difference does it make
if I do or don't indicate my intention?

This is why I believe that as/to the score keeper, all safety play is objective
 
4 to a 7 after the first week.They cried to the LO they probably had on speed dial.
 
lorider said:
I ageee completely In the scenario you describe . Just curious here.....how would you mark a 2 way shot ?
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A 2 way shot is a 2 way shot. His INTENT is to make the ball but if not he leaves the other bad. However, you have to look at the leave. If the player made it did he even put the cue ball where he could make another, or at least attempt to? If not, he was probably playing safe the entire time and I would mark it.

Choosing a shot that you can't make, like putting in the ball blocking your pocket, is a safe all day. They couldn't possibly make the ball so it is clear their INTENT was to free up the pocket for when they return.
 
As far as the OP goes.

You did beat him pretty good and it is your winning games, not matches, that matter. So say for instance you may have a total if 12 innings, yet in the 3 matches you beat him you did it in 6 innings and 3 safes. That is much different then 12 innings in 5 games with 8 safes by both of you.

As a 6, I have bad days and will lose to 4's that I would probably beat 19 out of 20 matches. Things happen. But I will never lose to them in that few of innings over 5 games unless they were playing well above normal as I would be playin more safe and locking stuff up, as that is what a 6 does when they are having an off night.
 
Also let's be realistic here. You were shooting a 6 for a reason. Either they saw you practicing and knew you to be a good shoot so they put the 6 on you or your captain knew it and put you on them.

One way or another, it was anticipated that you would be a good match up.

One last thing we had a new player come in and everyone knew he would be a good 6 or a 7. We made the other team play them as a 6. That player is a 7 and has been since the 3 week after that 2 years ago.
 
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us820 said:
4 to a 7 after the first week.They cried to the LO they probably had on speed dial.
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You should have started as a 7 then to begin with if it was a known skill, or a 6. I'm sure you have have to automatically be a 4 no matter what.
 
jh3rron said:
I have never played in the APA. My first game was last week. I was started @ level 4 and first match was against a level 6. I won the match barely 3-2, there were 12 innings and running totAL was 4. So this week after just one game I'm a 5. My captain mentioned he has never seen anyone move up after just one match. Had a guy tell me it only takes one phone call to the league operator to get you screwed. By what I took from it I must've hurt the level 6s feelings prompting him to speak to LO. Then again dude may be full of it. I'M My question is should I have moved up rank's after just one game?
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You shot a score much higher than a 4. So yes, it is extremely common for a new player to go up and/or down a lot to start with. If you beat a 6 3-2 in 12 total innings (plus what did you have for safeties?), then you are closer to a 6.

If you want to enjoy the APA, then play to win and don't worry about your handicap. (Assuming you are an honest person that likes honest competition).

Good luck!

KMRUNOUT
 
lorider said:
I ageee completely In the scenario you describe . Just curious here.....how would you mark a 2 way shot ?
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Did the person try to pocket a ball? If so, not a safe. If not, it was a safe. That is how the APA does it.

KMRUNOUT
 
I played apa 9 ball last year, first time in a organized league. I was started as a 4, played 1 match, the complaining started. What aggravated me was they knew who I was, and how I played. I didn't ask to be a 4, they waited until after I played to start complaining trying to make it into a forfeit. Was moved to a 6, played a few games as that, and was moved to a 7 for a few matches, and then to an 8.

I stopped playing apa, because there was too much complaining about skill levels for me. Switched to napa, and have heard just 1 person complain, and that guy complains about the sky being blue.

My opinion about league is just go play, have some fun, and don't worry about your skill level. Let it be what it is, try your best to move up to the next level. My goal in napa is to be the highest rated player in the local league by next year. I don't care that it means I have to give up crazy weight (hell had a 9-3 race the other day).

And for the record, I'm a low b player in my own mind, just not that many actual pool players in my area.
 
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My friend has been a 5 for months and I can stay with him tied up. I never play 9 ball but when I do I can run 5-6 balls on average. As for 8 ball I usally average a 5 ball run. Sometimes I'll run off 6 or 7 and screw up shape on the 8. So I try not to clear all my balls unless I know I can pull shape on the 8 ball. As far as people marking safeties I doubt my team captain knocking back miller had a clue as to when I shot safe.
 
Skippy27 said:
As far as the OP goes.

You did beat him pretty good and it is your winning games, not matches, that matter. So say for instance you may have a total if 12 innings, yet in the 3 matches you beat him you did it in 6 innings and 3 safes. That is much different then 12 innings in 5 games with 8 safes by both of you.

As a 6, I have bad days and will lose to 4's that I would probably beat 19 out of 20 matches. Things happen. But I will never lose to them in that few of innings over 5 games unless they were playing well above normal as I would be playin more safe and locking stuff up, as that is what a 6 does when they are having an off night.
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Yes the opposing team watched me warm up and goof off. I play for fun but that game I tried. Honestly I made sure each shot I took i tried not to leave him an easy run as my captain told me he was the best in our division. I think the 6s nerves got the better of him as they where taking time outs and telling him to breathe.No doubt he was a much better shooter than me but I didn't give him an inch just to be safe. I think I made him frustrated.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Did the person try to pocket a ball? If so, not a safe. If not, it was a safe. That is how the APA does it.

KMRUNOUT
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While reading this thread I thought of a question kind of pertaining to the topic, in 9 ball if u call safe but pocket a ball legally you obviously get the point but can it be marked as a safe if a ball is pocketed? The two way shot was what made me think of it for instance there's a way to play the shot so you can stop the cue ball, be directly behind another ball if you don't make it and also have position for the next ball if you do(again like perfect 2 way shot scenario) but if you play it this way and have "position" on next ball and either make it or Come real close like hanging it or rattling it In The jaws can it be marked a safe still?

I played apa for 3-4 sessions n started obviously as a 4 n went up to an 8 within the first 4 weeks tops. I think there was a rule u could only go up 2 spots a week or two spots every other week but I forget. And I do play semi-serious pool and like to think of myself as a strong competitor and occasional good player, but I have to admit I was the WORST score keeper ever continually cost my team the bonus points for scoring wrong and ended up paying someone to keep score for me when it was supposed to be my turn lol smh
 
goombavskoopa said:
@jh3rron after winning your first match im not shocked that you went up. You only had 12 innings in 5 games. A SL4 would never beat a SL6 in only 12 innings. That's why the handicap went up. I was raised by a LO during the middle of states for Aloha because "your stance is not how a SL3 would stand"....try to figure that one out
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This is probably true. The LO you are talking about is an internationally known player in his day and has written a few books about pool. Its fairly easy for an advanced player to tell correct skill level for a player just by watching them shoot- regardless of if they make balls.
 
If you want to enjoy the APA, then play to win and don't worry about your handicap. (Assuming you are an honest person that likes honest competition).

Good luck!

KMRUNOUT
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solid advise!:thumbup:
 
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