APA Vegas is a joke

Seriosly

why aren't all the nationals being played on diamond tables?

I know a lot of places don't have them but they play a lot more fair.
 
APA Nationals can't be taken too seriously. I've played in 8-ball nationals once and Masters nationals twice (placed 9th the 2nd time, so a decent showing), and had fun doing it every time.

Playing on bar boxes that may or may not be set up well does close the gap between skill levels and add a bit more luck to an already short race, but there is also an art to playing on crappy bar boxes. I prefer playing on 9-footers that are well-kept and feel like I'm playing on a toy when I play on a bar box, but I can still respect those that have specialized in the small table game.

Of the complaints mentioned so far, the only one I really agree with is charging for the tables during the Masters tournament. They don't charge for the other team tournaments, so why charge the Masters players? Time and time again, I am reminded that the APA's target market is low to mid S/L players. I understand why that works with their business model, but charging the Masters players by the game (which naturally go by faster with better players) is a slap in the face.

In any case, I've always been able to take it all in stride and enjoy the experience. I've never gone out to Vegas, APA Nationals or otherwise, expecting to come back with more money than I took, so I just carry that mentality over to the tournament. If you can't do that, APA is probably not for you.
 
I'm usually a big defender of APA play, but Vegas is where they seem to get sloppy or lazy. Pay for tables? Not use Diamond tables where they're used at nearly every other big event, including non-Vegas APA events? I don't mind the Valleys, but the quality of what they bring seems a little low for this big of an event.
 
bla bla bla

APA sucks, APA sucks, bla bla bla! But yet, they all go back and keep playing in the horrible league which pissed them off so bad. So for all you codependent APA members out there, believe it or not, there is life after APA.
 
ive been to vegas a number of times for apa and always have enjoyed playing their minis and higher level tournaments. I must be the minority I guess but I found that while the equipment varied alot and the tables often gave funky rolls, both players just have to adapt. it is what it is. Someone on my facebook said he watched Richard Schmeigel run six racks on the way to their team winning the Masters. Sounds like the tables were rolling good enough for some folks to run out and control their own destiny irregardless of bad rolls.
Those matches were held on the top floor of the monaco tower. I watched the 6 racks, would have been a 7 pack and done, if not for one dry break.

Anyway, those TWO tables used for the final matches rolled pretty straight from what I could tell (of course I wasnt playing on them, so...).

In the mini mania and masters room, I played several minis, and 5 team matches, each time on a different table and every single one of them was crooked and/or rolling down hill on one end. I've played on some really bad bar tables in the past, mostly in shithole bars, and these were right up there with them.

I'm not saying there wasnt straight tables there, out of 500 tables you're bound to get a few right, but I didnt have the privalige of playing on any of them.

As for the felt and the rails, I can deal with that. The rails did play funky, they were taking english wierd and stuff. Actually they were super springy like a diamond table.


Like I said, with the exception of these issues the event was pretty cool, IMO. Way too many people though. Of course its the first time to Vegas to play pool for me so I dont really have anything to compare it to.
 
APA sucks, APA sucks, bla bla bla! But yet, they all go back and keep playing in the horrible league which pissed them off so bad. So for all you codependent APA members out there, believe it or not, there is life after APA.

Nah, I'm fine with the rest of it.. I just think that half-assing their national tournament is kind of backwards. I started playing in 2005, so I think it's pretty cool that somebody kept stats for my lazy arse since I began playing, like it's nice to know that I've got a .65 avg defense in 8b when I always thought I was a defensive player. :p
 
I dont know what kind of tables the rest of the country plays on but our reginals are on diamonds and we dont pay fees or for tables there and I dont expect all the tables to be perfect however I do expect them to be set up properly with in reason,,

I play pro am events from NJ to VA and rarely are they perfect but mostly consitant , in this case consitanly bad would be what I call them,, lets remember there is a entry fee for the nationals it is not free you pay to play and in my case with over 400 matches and the first trip there I have payed plenty but thats besides the fact ,, The masters was formed to bring the better players in and give them a high level of play and you would expect with that good tables to play on, I guess that was asking to much,,

This is something Allen Hopkins understands better than anyone with the set up at the SBE with diamonds and 25cent tables for practice and free for the events

Back to table 35 no I did not play on it my friend pointed it out while shooting down the rail practicing I could see the rails where out from where I was standing plain as day ,,
I set my own tables up so I cant see how this can happen at this level , my guess is that they dont give themselves enough time to check the tables and make corrections as needed I saw at least 10 tables with this same condition

It is what it is

1
 
APA sucks, APA sucks, bla bla bla! But yet, they all go back and keep playing in the horrible league which pissed them off so bad. So for all you codependent APA members out there, believe it or not, there is life after APA.


Does that mean I should check myself in to league rehab?
Maybe you can help, and save me $15K for the 28-days.
Here's my APA problem

Last week our captain was in Las Vegas, we had too many higher ranked players, and we had to forfeit a match in 8 & 9.
Due to the fact that she wasn't there, I did all the put-ups, and we won, squeaking us in to the playoffs.
Didn't want to make the playoffs because I'm not really sure if I even like playing APA.
I like the race better than BCA, but you have to deal with very weak players just to keep a team together.
The 23 SL limit takes the fun out of it for me, because I don't know any available 2's or 3's.

What should I do, and how painful is recovery going to be.
 
Does that mean I should check myself in to league rehab?
Maybe you can help, and save me $15K for the 28-days.
Here's my APA problem

Last week our captain was in Las Vegas, we had too many higher ranked players, and we had to forfeit a match in 8 & 9.
Due to the fact that she wasn't there, I did all the put-ups, and we won, squeaking us in to the playoffs.
Didn't want to make the playoffs because I'm not really sure if I even like playing APA.
I like the race better than BCA, but you have to deal with very weak players just to keep a team together.
The 23 SL limit takes the fun out of it for me, because I don't know any available 2's or 3's.

What should I do, and how painful is recovery going to be.

I've been aware of my APA problem for a few years now. The problem is that every time I get ready to make a break for it, a team of 2s and 3s magically appears and make me feel like I'm wanted. Eventually, they all start going up, it gets more difficult to play, I vow to finish up in league and bam, another team comes along that says they want me to help out, even if it's only part-time(which always turns out more like f/t).

Maybe I just have a league problem, with BCA, APA and now straight pool in a month or so. If I tell the girlfriend I'm going to strip clubs three times a week, I think she'd take that better than knowing I'm out playing league. :eek:
 
I've been aware of my APA problem for a few years now. The problem is that every time I get ready to make a break for it, a team of 2s and 3s magically appears and make me feel like I'm wanted. Eventually, they all start going up, it gets more difficult to play, I vow to finish up in league and bam, another team comes along that says they want me to help out, even if it's only part-time(which always turns out more like f/t).

Maybe I just have a league problem, with BCA, APA and now straight pool in a month or so. If I tell the girlfriend I'm going to strip clubs three times a week, I think she'd take that better than knowing I'm out playing league. :eek:

Had the exact same problem, titty bars & all, but save it for the group sessions, and League Anonymous meetings.
I need to hear from the league-ologists out there, not another inmate...:smile:
 
When I started playing, coin-ops were a dime a game (1950s), then 2 dimes, then a quarter, two quarters, etc. The FIRST time I saw a dollar coin-up was twenty years ago. Many tournaments in the '90s were still on 50 cent coin-ops, and believe it or not, there are still lots of those around...

I personally believe that the $1 tables drove players back to playing on time on bigger tables, which is both a good and bad thing.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

Well, my home room, Stix here in Wichita, Ks, still has .50 Valley tables. It sure saves a lot with their 5 weekly tournaments. Plus, we have weekly Challenge (Grudge) Matches played every Saturday night for $500 minimum that are recorded, plus a commentator hooked up to Facebook, and a rack girl. Race to 7, 5 sets, for a $100 a man per set. The grudge matches are on a big table. Plus the owner, Joe, throws in a $100 to the winner.
 
all i can say is this. this was my first time out to vegas for apa. both tables i played on in the main tournament room were fine. they rolled fair enough and the cloth was new and decent. for all the b*tch*ng and moaning i have heard ove ther years about the racks, the ones used in the main tournamnet room and mini room were at least a solid plastic able to give an adequate rack. yes the doubles teams and masters team took in the rear having to pay for thier tables for the matches. that sucks. but the full team event tables were at least free.
in the minis i played in i was able to run a few racks and i saw more than a few run. i am a legitimate 6 in a 8 ball and 7 in 9 ball (meaning i don't sandbag and have az members to back me up on that). if i could run racks on those tables and so could others, all of the crying sounds suspicious to me. it sounds like people lost and are mad and are looking for things to blame.
could the apa use better tables, sure. could they be set up better, sure. but most tables in most rooms could be better. any one who tells me that every table they play on in every league is perfect, i feel more than comfortable calling bullshit. somewhere some night you play in a room where the table will have a roll or bad felt or the room is humid.
the practice rooms were a differnt story. that was like playing in thunderdome. you never knew what you were going to get. but that's the practice rooms and i'm not worried about that. the games that meant something i feel were played on more than adequate eqipment to play a good match on.
a table with poor conditions, imo, should not favor the weaker player. it should favor the stronger player who knows, or should know, how to adjust. if you tell me you lost to a wealer player who was actually hiding speed and sandbagging i can understand. tell me they got more and better rolls that particular match, i can understand. tell me the table beat you and i can't buy it. you should have played better. and i don't want to hear comparisons to shane losing to earl on the gaffe 10 footer. shane wasn't playing a weaker player and the table didn't beat him, the sharking did.
just my feelings on what i saw and experienced out there.
 
all i can say is this. this was my first time out to vegas for apa. both tables i played on in the main tournament room were fine. they rolled fair enough and the cloth was new and decent. for all the b*tch*ng and moaning i have heard ove ther years about the racks, the ones used in the main tournamnet room and mini room were at least a solid plastic able to give an adequate rack. yes the doubles teams and masters team took in the rear having to pay for thier tables for the matches. that sucks. but the full team event tables were at least free.
in the minis i played in i was able to run a few racks and i saw more than a few run. i am a legitimate 6 in a 8 ball and 7 in 9 ball (meaning i don't sandbag and have az members to back me up on that). if i could run racks on those tables and so could others, all of the crying sounds suspicious to me. it sounds like people lost and are mad and are looking for things to blame.
could the apa use better tables, sure. could they be set up better, sure. but most tables in most rooms could be better. any one who tells me that every table they play on in every league is perfect, i feel more than comfortable calling bullshit. somewhere some night you play in a room where the table will have a roll or bad felt or the room is humid.
the practice rooms were a differnt story. that was like playing in thunderdome. you never knew what you were going to get. but that's the practice rooms and i'm not worried about that. the games that meant something i feel were played on more than adequate eqipment to play a good match on.
a table with poor conditions, imo, should not favor the weaker player. it should favor the stronger player who knows, or should know, how to adjust. if you tell me you lost to a wealer player who was actually hiding speed and sandbagging i can understand. tell me they got more and better rolls that particular match, i can understand. tell me the table beat you and i can't buy it. you should have played better. and i don't want to hear comparisons to shane losing to earl on the gaffe 10 footer. shane wasn't playing a weaker player and the table didn't beat him, the sharking did.
just my feelings on what i saw and experienced out there.

Well you obviously dont get around much there sport , the fact is my team did fine for a bunch of old farts made it to 33 in the masters ,

I started this thread and you never heard me complain about our outcome
did we have bad rolls ya and now that were talking about my team we had several but I did not bring it up because it probaly did not affect the outcome in the end , but it could have ,,
We are not used to playing on shit equiptment and knew adjustments would have to be made mine started with sending a cue 2 1/2 ounces heavier because I was warned how slow the cheap cloth would be after playing I would have went up another ounce but I left that cue at home

I watched last yrs winners because they play in many pro am events that we do and saw them get bad roll after bad roll they survived most of those matches also but they knew the deal going in

I guess it was lessons learned go hit a bunch of shit hole bars and thier tables and get better prepaired

I had a good time never the less Im just calling it like I see it and I see pretty good,, and expected just a little more from the biggest amature sports leaque in the world ,,

sorry if some cant handle that


9
 
all i can say is this. this was my first time out to vegas for apa. both tables i played on in the main tournament room were fine. they rolled fair enough and the cloth was new and decent. for all the b*tch*ng and moaning i have heard ove ther years about the racks, the ones used in the main tournamnet room and mini room were at least a solid plastic able to give an adequate rack. yes the doubles teams and masters team took in the rear having to pay for thier tables for the matches. that sucks. but the full team event tables were at least free.
in the minis i played in i was able to run a few racks and i saw more than a few run. i am a legitimate 6 in a 8 ball and 7 in 9 ball (meaning i don't sandbag and have az members to back me up on that). if i could run racks on those tables and so could others, all of the crying sounds suspicious to me. it sounds like people lost and are mad and are looking for things to blame.
could the apa use better tables, sure. could they be set up better, sure. but most tables in most rooms could be better. any one who tells me that every table they play on in every league is perfect, i feel more than comfortable calling bullshit. somewhere some night you play in a room where the table will have a roll or bad felt or the room is humid.
the practice rooms were a differnt story. that was like playing in thunderdome. you never knew what you were going to get. but that's the practice rooms and i'm not worried about that. the games that meant something i feel were played on more than adequate eqipment to play a good match on.
a table with poor conditions, imo, should not favor the weaker player. it should favor the stronger player who knows, or should know, how to adjust. if you tell me you lost to a wealer player who was actually hiding speed and sandbagging i can understand. tell me they got more and better rolls that particular match, i can understand. tell me the table beat you and i can't buy it. you should have played better. and i don't want to hear comparisons to shane losing to earl on the gaffe 10 footer. shane wasn't playing a weaker player and the table didn't beat him, the sharking did.
just my feelings on what i saw and experienced out there.
The tables I played on were pathetic, plain and simple. I'm glad you brought up the practice room, because how the tables I played on in the tourny played. Great comparison, thanks for pointing that out.....lol. I did not play on the tables in the main room, so maybe they were set up better.

It was my first apa national, so maybe my expectations were too high, but in any other high dollar tourny, the equipment is at least somewhat straight.

The dollar per game didnt matter to me, that was chickenshit money compared to all the other money I blew in Vegas.
 
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ive been to vegas a number of times for apa and always have enjoyed playing their minis and higher level tournaments. I must be the minority I guess but I found that while the equipment varied alot and the tables often gave funky rolls, both players just have to adapt. it is what it is. Someone on my facebook said he watched Richard Schmeigel run six racks on the way to their team winning the Masters. Sounds like the tables were rolling good enough for some folks to run out and control their own destiny irregardless of bad rolls.

Rich is a beast. Nice to see he's back playing more.
 
Reading your post, I was wondering what part of the country you are from. And, do they still have 25 or 50 cent tables there? Honestly, I have not seen a 50 cent bar box in at least 20 years.

In Vegas, most all the bars that still have Valley tables charge from twenty five cents to seventy five cents. Diamonds are nearly always one dollar. A few places have them at seventy five cents.

Lyn
 
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