APA vs TAP

mongoose-

mongoose-

Banned
I'm looking on some opinions of anyone out there who is playing the TAP league or has played it before. I've played BCAPL & APA. I've seen the TAP stuff around the internet a lot but am not familiar with it. I assume it's set up pretty much the same as the APA but don't know. Like to hear from anyone with input. Thanks.
 
Tap

There was a Tap team tournament yesterday where I was playing(practice on 9's and a small weekly tourney on BB).The level of play was not real high from what did see.There was some hootin and hollerin but not like with the big APA tourneys.The alcohol consumption was less then the APA also.Curiously few of the tappers joined in the weekly and most didn't seem to be aware there was an open tournament going on.1 fella came out and leaned a hand on my match table while talking on his cell.Another came out of the tap match room and started rolling balls around on the table I was playing 1 pocket on!

I did see some higher skill level players on 1 of the tap teams.

I watched some of the matches and a guy I know and respect told me TAP is not just about sandbagging.
 
Well Tap is much smaller, also seems to be a lot more driven by the local operator. I think I had a lot of fun playing in the APA but at least around here the TAP league is more geared for the pool player than the socialite. If I was just a player on the team and was serious about playing I would pick Tap hands down. As a captain the score keeping is tough though. I think the size of the APA gives it the ability to give players more added money and benefits during the year. The APA being geared for bar play brings a lot of other disadvantages. This is just my opinion and I'm sure is somewhat bias to this area. If your L/O stinks I'm sure they could ruin either one.
 
One of our APA SL 6's has been a TAP 3 for years and just recently went up to a TAP 4. It's possible that one can't really compare the handicap ratings between leagues.

Rufus
 
In Washington it's a well known fact that the TAP players are stronger and the rating are different. APA teams will join the TAP league and get slaughtered. Also in Tap you have to call the pocket. Apa it's if one of your balls falls in any pocket you keep shooting.
 
dr9ball said:
One of our APA SL 6's has been a TAP 3 for years and just recently went up to a TAP 4. It's possible that one can't really compare the handicap ratings between leagues.

Rufus
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I've heard the skill levels are abit skewed from each other. What do you think that is attributed to? The higher level of score keeping, i.e. dead balls, miss count vs safeties, etc.? Or is handicap system set up that way so the league becomes more player oriented?
 
Around here (Atlanta), TAP tends to be a) much smaller than APA overall, but b) draws a more 'serious' average level player. TAP will likely be smaller wherever you go, considering how much newer on the scene it is, and the LOs having to compete with established APA leagues in most places, for venues to play and for warm bodies.

The two are nearly identical as far as how they work, with a few exceptions:
1) Rule differences (TAP is more like BCA than APA is, rule-wise)
2) Scoring (much more granular - you really have to pay attention!)
3) Same basic five-matches-a-night, handicap range is the same (at least for 8-ball), but you can play 25 pts. instead of 23.
4) The handicap ranges tend to be one or two different, like others have said. I was an APA 6 when I stopped playing APA last year. Joined TAP as a 4 (which is what you start as), and I thought I'd jump up to a five pretty quick, but that hasn't happened. I'm 5-3 for the session, and two of those losses were to TAP 5s who were damn good shots - folks I figure would have been at least high 6s, if not low-middling 7s, in my old APA league.
 
I play both TAP and APA (CPA up here in Canada). TAP is big in my city and it has overtaken CPA as the dominant league.

The players in TAP are definitely stronger. As a rule of thumb, you are one handicap level lower in TAP than in APA/CPA but there can be large differences. Most of the SL7s are TAP 5s or 6s. There scoring as others have mentioned is also more granular. For each match you mark the completes, misses, balls made on the break, defensives, and dead balls. It also allows for a more accurate handicapping system I find since It's not just an "innings are everything" approach. I also find it to be cumbersome at times though as a lot of the stats don't mean anything.

The MVP system is also better than CPA I find since it takes into account your winning percentages as well as the sum of handicaps you've beaten.
 
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All of the above (below). ;)

Really think about this, which handicap system would be more precise, one that counts innings played and safes with wins/losses; or one that counts balls made, missed, dead balls, balls made on break, and safes.

In addition, the handicaps in APA established in the league operators domain. In my area, MD and Northern Virginia, our skills levels are based upon the player performances here. If you are in a strong area, your individual handicaps may be lower than if you played in an area that does not have a lot of strong players. No matter what, the players that win the most, in fewer innings, WILL be bumped up to higher skill levels in APA.

Compound that with the skill level caps that are put on the APA teams, and you have a great format for causing teams to split-up and being forced to find new players to continue to play. It is a nice money making system that the APA has put together.

This IMHO becomes a problem when you play in national events in APA, as it is not really a national level handicap. This becomes at least some of the basis for statements like 'jeez I cannot believe that person is a 4 he would be at least a 6 in our league'

TAP handicaps on the other hand are all done by the league central office, and is based upon all of the players perfomance, not just those in your region as APA.


cycopath said:
I've heard the skill levels are abit skewed from each other. What do you think that is attributed to? The higher level of score keeping, i.e. dead balls, miss count vs safeties, etc.? Or is handicap system set up that way so the league becomes more player oriented?
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TAP has a lot more prize winning money involved. After each session the top 3 teams would advance to the titleholders but it was played in 1 weekend instead of spreading it out over 3 weeks like APA does. Top prize was over $5000 for 1st place finishing TAP teams compared to $1000 for APA. The APA is very well organized which is where TAP collpases. We went weeks without any updated paperwork which is 1 reason why the league folded in my area. Combine the TAP rules with the APA organization and you've got the best league ever!!
 
Played both APA and TAP for significant time.

Rules differences: break with cue ball fully behind the line in TAP, where APA can be center ball.

Choice of category of balls off break in TAP

Safeties must be called for TAP

Call pocket for TAP

"Safe ball down" can be called in TAP where you call a safe, and then proceed to pocket you own ball, after this turning over the table to your opponent. Comes up a lot more frequently than one would imagine for defensive minded shots.

Skill levels: Our LO from TAP used our SLs from APA and then dropped them by one. APA SL5 became SL4 as they entered the league. I found that most TAP players were about one and a half SLs below their APA ratings, and as was stated above, I've seen APA SL6s shoot as SL4s in TAP.

In addition to players being a level or below in TAP from APA, the team points are also raised to 25 as opposed to APAs 23, so it was rare that any teams would be anywhere close to going over, even with a group of skilled shooters. Really helped keep teams together, and allowed every who showed an opportunity to play every league night.

That said, in our local league area, I found the overall skill level to be higher, shooter for shooter, in TAP. YOUR AREA MAY VARY.

Payouts at money tournaments were much greater for TAP, but I really don't care about that stuff.

Team and individual qualifiers seemed to be an easier track to get to their national tournament.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
Really think about this, which handicap system would be more precise, one that counts innings played and safes with wins/losses; or one that counts balls made, missed, dead balls, balls made on break, and safes.
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This is a big fallacy regarding the TAP system. People ASSUME, that all that information collected means it has to be better. It's easy to make that assumption, I understand. The next logical step is to see whether that assumption holds true. If not, then that's a lot of additional scoring work. Not worth the headache.

For example, ...
Gregg said:
Skill levels: Our LO from TAP used our SLs from APA and then dropped them by one. APA SL5 became SL4 as they entered the league. I found that most TAP players were about one and a half SLs below their APA ratings, and as was stated above, I've seen APA SL6s shoot as SL4s in TAP.
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That's because almost everyone is a 4 or 5 in TAP. No matter how good you really are. There have been 10 level players in our area that have stayed a SL 4 or 5.

Don't just automatically assume they sandbagged to do that.

More can be said when there is more time.
 
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I am a current member of APA and BCA. Used to play TAP and what morphed from that into VIP which I think is just local. What I noticed was the caliber of players. Wasn't just the rankings were different but the true skill level wasn't there in TAP. I'm not sure if it was due to the operators of the league or what but found APA to have better players. Of course...locally....the BCA has the best players.
Ultimately it comes down to the league operators although I'm quite surprised that anyone plays APA(including myself) considering the guy who runs it here.
 
FLICKit said:
This is a big fallacy regarding the TAP system. People ASSUME, that all that information collected means it has to be better. It's easy to make that assumption, I understand. The next logical step is to see whether that assumption holds true. If not, then that's a lot of additional scoring work. Not worth the headache.

For example, ...

That's because almost everyone is a 4 or 5 in TAP. No matter how good you really are. There have been 10 level players in our area that have stayed a SL 4 or 5.

Don't just automatically assume they sandbagged to do that.

More can be said when there is more time.
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Yup, I'm with you on that. TAP skill levels in our area were flat out all over the place. Known local players who simply outclassed an opponent were giving one game. They needed five to make it 50/50 as the handicap is intended.

This is one extreme example highlighted, but this would occur quite a bit.

APA in contrast would have two SL4s, one strong, one weak, who could at least match up, more or less. From what I've seen long term, the APA does a better overall job of leveling the playing field.
 
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