APA.........You Do the Math.

jrt30004 said:
hasn't this horse been kicked enough? yep. they take your money. yep they don't pay out a lot. yep the sandbaggers are rampant. so what? don't like it? don't play. get screwed in your area? don't play. you don't have to play apa, play another league. don't have others in your area? play tournaments. don't have 'em? start one. but good god give it up already. here in atlanta i can't stand the sandbagging. but we get taken care of pretty well. especially north of the city. a lot of decent tables in ok rooms. tables are free from one hour before start, usually until the places close. we pay something like $30 a year dues, and anywhere from $7 to $9 a week dues per team. until the end of the current session i will be on four teams. i play on almost every team, every week. so i pay $36 a week in fees. i play roughly 20 hours of pool. if i paid table time that would be about $200, i pay $36. i also have a few ridiculous sl 7/9's in my area who i've befriended and i get to hang and shoot with them and they teach me when ever they can. so i also get some free lessons. i like my apa just fine. our LO makes money. how much? don't know. don't care. know why? guy works for it, five days a week and when we have the big singles tournaments or team tournaments he can be there 12 - 13 hours a day all weekend. and he pays out a lot for expenses. office, electricity, phone and fax lines, web site, it people, computers, two employees, his gas to drive around to all the tournaments, and sometimes to some of the locations, are just some of his expenses. i have my own family bsuiness and i know what that stuff costs and it's alot. plus the apa is like the mob. you're not just earning for you. no way, you gotta kick back upstairs or you got problems. the boys in st. louis want their cut. so i've done my math, i save about $164 a week on table time, i get free lessons ($100 an hour when i've had to pay) and to date i've won close to a grand in apa single and team tournaments. i'm good. if your not, quit.
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Very well put....
 
markpatrick said:
Yes the APA is based in St Louis, Lake St Louis. A gated high security community.
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" A gated high security community"????:confused: All I know is that when you want to visit the APA National Office, you pull of the highway, park and walk in...... there isn't a gate at their office, to keep you out.......

Oooppps...sorry Scott.....didn't see your above post! Ah well...just reconfirming!
 
Apa

Yeah, I have played many leagues, but the APA was an eye opener. So I put together a team with some family and neighbors and chose APA because it was in the area. And then we made the mistake of winning the league. Because when we showed up for playoffs, the meaty hooks were waiting for us,,, "um, you owed $40 for the playoffs"

So the four teams that made the playoffs still had pay the weekly fees to play in a tourney that had no table time??? WOW. Give me a break already. Yeah, make a profit, but geez !!

Going back to BCA/ACS combo league with real payouts, and nice parties at end of each session. How the heck wants to keep score of every single freakin game every league night?????
 
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lo can't play

Worst_7_ever said:
Funny
overtaker...I personally know 5 out of 6 league operators in the chicagoland area, and none of them can really play that well. Whats next, are you now gonna tell me I don't really know them? As I said, "In general" they cannot play well. I am sure there are plenty that can. I am sure you know some that can, and am really sure, I know some that cannot. Now go back into replying to posts without really thinking about what was writen to begin with, and leave me alone.:wink:
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There is no doubt that you are the worst 7 ever, lol. Wow, you know 5 league operators and that's what your making your claim on based on 5 out of over 265 league operators. You don't know what you are talking about.
And so what if the 5 you know can't play very well, that has no bearing on them running a great league or not. A league operator with the Largest Pool League in the World actually has numerous divisions to manage on a daily basis vs. someone that has a BCA league, usually one division primarily made up of a bunch of whiners and a lot of bad players added in there, has a lot of spare time to play pool since they don't have much of a league to handle. I know more that a few that would make you look like the worst 3 ever, lol.
 
playoffs

ChicagoRJ said:
Yeah, I have played many leagues, but the APA was an eye opener. So I put together a team with some family and neighbors and chose APA because it was in the area. And then we made the mistake of winning the league. Because when we showed up for playoffs, the meaty hooks were waiting for us,,, "um, you owed $40 for the playoffs"

So the four teams that made the playoffs still had pay the weekly fees to play in a tourney that had no table time??? WOW. Give me a break already. Yeah, make a profit, but geez !!

Going back to BCA/ACS combo league with real payouts, and nice parties at end of each session. How the heck wants to keep score of every single freakin game every league night?????
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Did you ever bother to read the rule book. It states that dues are due during playoffs but I am sure that would have been too much trouble. It is a lot easier to blame someone else. whaaaaaaa
 
overtaker said:
Did you ever bother to read the rule book. It states that dues are due during playoffs but I am sure that would have been too much trouble. It is a lot easier to blame someone else. whaaaaaaa
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............................
 
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Worst_7_ever said:
Ok, your the best Julian...your the best.

I am done having a "conversation" with some donk who is afraid to use there real account, and has to create one just defend the skill levels of APA LO's...

Funny, looks like Overtaker, APA LO, and APA Operator all are using new accounts, how funny. They wouldnt all be the same person would they???:thumbup:
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I signed up for AZBilliards in April of '07. Do you really consider that a new account? I can assure you I only have one account here.

I can't speak for the other two as I do not know who they are. Just from reading their posts, they do not appear to be the same person.
 
APA LO said:
I signed up for AZBilliards in April of '07. Do you really consider that a new account? I can assure you I only have one account here.

I can't speak for the other two as I do not know who they are. Just from reading their posts, they do not appear to be the same person.
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you're not new but you don't post much and you have alot of posts in this one thread so from the outside it can look a little off. and it happens waaaayyyy toooo much on here where someone will have multiple accounts laying in wait for the day one of them gets banned. it's pretty clear you post mostly in regards to matters regarding the apa. btw i commend you for the belief you hold in the apa and your defense of it. i have lost a lot of interest and respect for the league and i my self now limit how much i will help defend it, but someone has to because i believe the league is a good starting place for new players.
 
APA LO said:
.

I haven't responded to you before, mainly because it seems rather obvious to me that you seem pretty convinced in our opinion. It would be a complete waste of my time to attempt it. But, for your loyal readers, I will go ahead and do it anyway. I operate a very big league. Not once in probably the last 5 years has a team split in two due to handicaps in my league. A team split in two because there was a ton of infighting going on amongst them, but not once has a team split in two for handicap reasons. Thus, the "pyramid scheme" thought process is quite skewed.
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I've been trying to avoid posting anymore in this thread, I've already stated my point clearly and no one has yet to really address any of the issues truthfully. You and the other LO's are defending your businesses and I respect that! I've been a small businessman for over 40 years and if you think that's easy you haven't a clue! I've owned pool bars and pool rooms with APA teams. One of the selling points in the LO's pitch was how the "23 rule" was designed to work. I have to admit that from a bar owners prospective the concept sounded good, until the ramifications gradually became clear. I tried doing things the way you should in respect to handicaps and found out how screwed up the system is. We played the numbers game for a while just to keep together but it just wasn't worth it. I don't care how much the LO's make, I know they earn every penny and have a lot of expenses. I'd have to be guaranteed a 7 figure income to consider doing the job (again. was a LO in a different league) and I doubt any of them are making that much! My complaint is still the use of the "23 rule" to populate more teams, which is the primary cause of the sandbagging situation and numbers games.
I won't take the position that you're lying about not having any teams in your league that have split up due to handicaps in the past 5 years, BUT if this is true you have probably the worse case of sandbagging in the country for the players to keep their handicaps where NO teams have had to split!!!!! That is probably the most rediculous statement I've ever heard from anyone in regards to the APA league! You have to understand, I'm not new to the APA, I started in it when it was in it's infancy as the Busch Pool League. I even have one of the OLD fake neon "Busch Pool League" sign's on my basement wall. I've captained many teams and played on others. Got as attic full of trophys from 6" to 3' tall from them. Been there done that! From the beginning, I was in the bar business and was aware of the situation. I didn't like the "23 rule" from the get go and have never been shy about voicing my opinion about it. Like any bad rule, if no one complains, nothing will change. At this point, I wouldn't play in the APA if they let _ME_ write the rules and it was free! I have no interest in being in a bar with drunks. Spent too much time in the bar business to enjoy that! But I'll still try to let the people who still enjoy this activity, know why they're in the situation they're in. Not many understand the system and most just go with the flow. If you league operators really believe that a majority of the people in the leagues are happy with the "23 rule" , the handicap system, the sandbagging, and yes the payouts (which meant nothing to me, I know it's a recreational activity, not a business for the players and don't really care as much about the money aspect as the unfair rules just to make more for "St. Louis"! ) then you're either in denial, very naive or aren't listening!
I'm going to try to refrain from posting in this thread anymore. I hope we can all just let it drop. You're not going to change the league, my mind or yours apparently so we'll just have to agree to disagree!
 
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Our league OP had the balls to try and tell me she makes about "$5 an hour after all the traveling and paper work that needs to be done"



Get the F*CK out with the lies... good god.
 
How much did you win????

ChicagoRJ said:
Yeah, I have played many leagues, but the APA was an eye opener. So I put together a team with some family and neighbors and chose APA because it was in the area. And then we made the mistake of winning the league. Because when we showed up for playoffs, the meaty hooks were waiting for us,,, "um, you owed $40 for the playoffs"

So the four teams that made the playoffs still had pay the weekly fees to play in a tourney that had no table time??? WOW. Give me a break already. Yeah, make a profit, but geez !!

Going back to BCA/ACS combo league with real payouts, and nice parties at end of each session. How the heck wants to keep score of every single freakin game every league night?????
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Did you win any money? For winning your division.

I guess you did not continue playing for 2 more sessions?
 
towel

I am sure that towel came in handy as much crying as you do, lol

I love the missouri 8 ball league, i love the missouri 8 ball league
what, are you and the guy that runs it coco buddies or what.
 
gated

markpatrick said:
That is where Larry and Terry live. The gated community. Do charge an entry fee for a tour?:eek::eek::eek:
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They do not live in a gated community. It is nice but now gated.

sounds like you are just a little jealous. Maybe you can win enough playing in that MO ate a ball league to move on up to a DEElux apt. in the sky
 
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