Are all linen wraps the same?

ddadams

Absolutely love this cue.
Silver Member
I've only ever had one linen wrapped cue and it was a newer production cue. After having a wrapless cue I really started to dislike the feeling on the wrap a LOT. Now when I see linen wrapped cues for sale from higher end makers I'm kind of upset. If its something I like I feel like I'm SOL or I'd have to get it rewrapped.


But now I'm wondering if there's any type of quality difference in these wraps or are they so standard all around that there's no real difference?
 
Not only are there different brands of Irish linen wraps, but the way it is finished makes a difference. Some sand, some use a type of sealer or starch. Some using nothing and leave it raw after pressing it.
 
I've only ever had one linen wrapped cue and it was a newer production cue. After having a wrapless cue I really started to dislike the feeling on the wrap a LOT. Now when I see linen wrapped cues for sale from higher end makers I'm kind of upset. If its something I like I feel like I'm SOL or I'd have to get it rewrapped.


But now I'm wondering if there's any type of quality difference in these wraps or are they so standard all around that there's no real difference?

Most linen wraps are basically the same after installation. How tightly it is wrapped is about the only difference. Now once installed, the builder/mechanic has great latitude in what the final "feel" will be. There are many ways to press and seal a linen wrap. It can be pressed, double pressed, burnished, sanded, sealed with sealer or finish, wax, starch, nothing and who all knows what other techniques mechanics have come up with to get their signature "feel".

Dick
 
Old and New

The "Older" Linen was a lot better then the newer linen we are getting these days. The new almost has a glaze over it and feels like plastic. JMO... Glad I have lots of the old stuff in Black with White :D
 
The "Older" Linen was a lot better then the newer linen we are getting these days. The new almost has a glaze over it and feels like plastic. JMO... Glad I have lots of the old stuff in Black with White :D

This is like the only way I can describe the feeling on my McDermott. It feels like they used plastic coating over it and I hate it now pretty much..
 
Just want to add this as I also only like to play with cues with certain preps on linen wraps but don't know what created that feel.

Is it the chemicals used? Delrin pressing, wood pressing, double pressing with either? I know there are a lot of methods used but only a few preps that I enjoy playing with.

I've seen wraps prepared in all sorts of ways but only liked the ones below and I wanted more info on them if possible. I think the OP might like them too if he likes the feel closer to a wrap-less cue. They both feel to me, close but not exactly like a stacked leather wrap which I now really like as well.

Which is the method that makes the linen wrap the most polished/i.e. has a smooth but tacky feel to it? Don't mean like a Meucci with finish on it.

Which is the method that makes the linen wrap feel like a soft suede which is also fairly tacky?

Pretty much I'd like to know what to advise a cue maker/repair person so that I don't end up with a smooth but slick feeling linen wrap to prevent me from using wax paper on it to get the grip/feel I like.

Thanks!

Kevin
 
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Did either of you actually read Dick's post?

Linen is linen. Linen for wraps has always been 'unwaxed' linen. Waxed linen is used for sewing leather.

Linen is made from flax plants. Unless you are saying that we have seen a mutation in flax plants which cause it's fibers to be substantially different, then it is the same except for the dyeing (unlikely to affect feel) and the finish (highly likely to affect feel).

If you want to experiment, get some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and lightly sand your wrap. This will expose more of the unmolested fibers of the wrap.

dld


Sure did read it.

Read this part pretty well and decided that maybe they feel different.

" Now once installed, the builder/mechanic has great latitude in what the final "feel" will be."
 
Interesting topic.

I prefer linen wrapped cues.

Leather wraps were always kinda squishy to me, producing a numb/vague feedback when playing.

Recently I sent a cue out to have a custom shaft matched up to it. When it came back with the new shaft, the builder cleaned and repressed the wrap. Slick as baby snot, it felt like a new cue. I didn't realize how worn and uneven it was.

I never liked wrapless or house cues. I used to own a pair of Meucci's, and because they sealed their wraps I'll make this comparison. Part of my "old" Pre-Shot Routine was to stroke the cue while standing upright, to gauge the shot before getting down on the table, my last step in that PSR was to wring the moisture off the butt of the cue with my hand, and wipe it off on my pants. Also, Have you ever walked in a bar & grill or a pool hall that doubled as a pizza restaurant and picked up a cue that was just greasy all over?

Anyway, there is a difference between how tightly linen is wrapped and if/how it was pressed.

Cheers.
 
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I appreciate the things people said in this thread.

Now I actually know WHY I prefer older cues.

It really IS the linen wrap. I like the old, semi-cotton, feel of old wraps.
The newer wraps feel sterile, almost impotent. No life to them at all.

An older wrap feels sexy. It's like the difference between sliding your hand along the leg of a "girl next door" and a cheap hooker.

(Not that I have ever rubbed a cheap hookers leg) :grin-square:
 
Linen Wraps

I've tried every type of wrap cue makers use on their cues and some I liked and others I didn't care for. Like what's been mentioned in some of the other posts in this thread there are a number of different brands of linen that are available to wrap cues. My favorite (which is no longer made) is Blue Mountain brand linen and I like the way it looks and feels on a cue. I don't care for starched linen and i've tried it on a number of cues and lately on the last couple that i've done i've left them unsealed and not double pressed to a real smooth finish. I don't care for the super slick linen that you find on some cues after they've been pressed and re-pressed. I like to press the linen as light as I can to make them smooth, but still be able to feel the threads and while the cue is spinning on the lathe after it's dry I rub a little candle wax on it to give it a slight tacky feel. This method and type of linen is my favorite.

James
 
This is like the only way I can describe the feeling on my McDermott. It feels like they used plastic coating over it and I hate it now pretty much..

Well, you've lost me.

Am I correct in assuming the wrapless cues you like so much are
finished?

If so they effectively have a plastic coating over them.

As to linen wraps, they can vary anywhere from felling like a well worn
towel, to slick as glass, and just about anything in between.

Dale
 
Did either of you actually read Dick's post?

Linen is linen. Linen for wraps has always been 'unwaxed' linen. Waxed linen is used for sewing leather.

Linen is made from flax plants. Unless you are saying that we have seen a mutation in flax plants which cause it's fibers to be substantially different, then it is the same except for the dyeing (unlikely to affect feel) and the finish (highly likely to affect feel).

If you want to experiment, get some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and lightly sand your wrap. This will expose more of the unmolested fibers of the wrap.

dld

True enough, to a point. I pursued this matter last year and found out that different regions do in fact produce different flax. Saying that flax is flax is sort of like saying maple is maple if you get what I mean.

Then there is the matter of how the linen cord is produced. What we use on cues is a linen cord as opposed to a braid or a twine. How exactly it is wound/twisted etc does have something to do with how the texture of the material will be and how well it takes to things like polishing etc. As with many things the higher grade materials take more time and effort to produce and are hence more expensive. In addition, as with many things, the more expensive to produce varieties tend to fall off in favor of faster and easier to produce varieties in these modern times.

In the end, there is more to it than flax is flax, and it does seem that the no longer produced linens, especially the Cortland variety, have properties that are in general superior for use in wrapping pool cues.

Lastly, as we have heard, there are the great variety of ways that a cue maker can finish the linen.

Different people will prefer different feel/finish and there are many ways to finish the wrap apparently. Most often we the consumers do not know how it is done we just know whether or not we like the results.

I have numerous linen wrapped cues. The best that I have are my 70's JOSS with original wrap and my 1980 Huebler with original wrap. Of the modern cues I have and have tried my preference is for the JOSS finish, and I have no idea how they do it.

I did a lot of reading on this last year and basically got up to my ears in textiles and even textile industry economics. In the end what I came to understand is that the Cortland many of us love was indeed different and superior to what we have today and it will in all likelihood never be produced again. It's value will continue to increase.

It is in demand by both custom pool cue makers and model ship builders. Yes, that's right. They use it for "rope" rigging on high grade model ships. They use the exact same Cortland #9 27 pount test linen we love. I say we gather up all the model boat builders and have them shot. :wink:





.
 
Well, you've lost me.

Am I correct in assuming the wrapless cues you like so much are
finished?

If so they effectively have a plastic coating over them.

As to linen wraps, they can vary anywhere from felling like a well worn
towel, to slick as glass, and just about anything in between.

Dale

Yes they are finished but its slightly different feeling. And the feeling of a plasticy finish on linen isn't really the same as just a finish... There's still small grooves between the threading etc.


I just don't care for the way it feels on this cue. Maybe I just won't ever like linen. I'm weird I guess.
 
Yes they are finished but its slightly different feeling. And the feeling of a plasticy finish on linen isn't really the same as just a finish... There's still small grooves between the threading etc.


I just don't care for the way it feels on this cue. Maybe I just won't ever like linen. I'm weird I guess.

We may be getting somewhere.

It sounds as if the your wrap had finish sprayed over it
rather than being 'pressed and polished' Is your McD by any chance
one of their cheap made-in-Asia models?

Dale
 
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We may be getting somewhere.

It sounds as if the wrap you have has had finish sprayed over it
rather than being 'pressed and polished' Is your McD by any chance
one of their cheap made-in-Asia madels?

Dale

No idea but I'm going to assume so?

It's the M54A. It's zebrawood with geckos on it.
 
Linen, leather, cork, wrapless, type/brand/finish technique used, finished product...
This is all personal preference. If you don't like it - don't use it, don't sweat it.
There is nothing more "classic" than linen and soft, smooth leather wraps, hence you'll see them installed by cm's a lot. These things go in cycles, too, along with changes in availability (see EE leather, stingray, etc).
I play (almost) exclusively with linen wraps - prefer Blue Mountain & a smooth finish, and I prefer a roughish, tacky faux Teja wrap on my break cue. I have my reasons for both - that's me.
Best of luck to you!
 
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Linen, leather, cork, wrapless, type/brand/finish technique used, finished product...
This is all personal preference. If you don't like it - don't use it, don't sweat it.
There is nothing more "classic" than linen and soft, smooth leather wraps, hence you'll see them installed by cm's a lot. These things go in cycles, too, along with changes in availability (see EE leather, stingray, etc).
I play (almost) exclusively with linen wraps - prefer Blue Mountain & a smooth finish, and I prefer a roughish, tacky faux Teja wrap on my break cue. I have my reasons for both - that's me.
Best of luck to you!

I love the look! I just don't like the feeling on the only one I've had.

If I knew someone in the area with a nice custom with a linen wrap I would have just asked to see theirs and see if the finish felt different.


I was hoping to get a response similar to what I've read. Maybe there's some hope for linen and I to reconcile our differences if it changes its finish. lol
 
After all these years and many different cues and wraps nothing feels as good to me as the wrap on my 1972 National Tournament (Gandy) cue that is wrapped with white with green speck Cortland. It was made when Ricco Cervantes worked for them. I bought the cue new and still have it with the original wrap. None of the new linens feel the same. I can get it close by not over pressing, but still not the same.
 
Not only are there different brands of Irish linen wraps, but the way it is finished makes a difference. Some sand, some use a type of sealer or starch. Some using nothing and leave it raw after pressing it.

Yep, the way it's finished makes the most difference I think, Years ago I took a Meucci "oldie series" cue I had "with finished over wrap" to Tim Scruggs shop to get it re-wrapped, I guess he left it raw, it was rough, had no tack to it, no shine, I hated it....goes to show, finish def makes a difference, even with somebody like Tim doing it.... Here's what I do to my linen wrap on my Palmer, white candle wax rubbed long ways, just enough to get in the grooves, then rub a "shot glass" long ways too, heats up wax and pushes it into linen, end result is very smooth (but tacky), shiny, just nice feelin wrap....my 2 cents....
 
Did either of you actually read Dick's post?

Linen is linen. Linen for wraps has always been 'unwaxed' linen. Waxed linen is used for sewing leather.

Linen is made from flax plants. Unless you are saying that we have seen a mutation in flax plants which cause it's fibers to be substantially different, then it is the same except for the dyeing (unlikely to affect feel) and the finish (highly likely to affect feel).

If you want to experiment, get some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and lightly sand your wrap. This will expose more of the unmolested fibers of the wrap.

dld
Well everyone has opinions... The new linen is different and has changed over the years IMO...

Interesting -

"Atlas Billiards site" Hurlbert/Hartford Irish Linen provides bright, vibrant, consistent dye colors resulting from their special polishing operation. The special polish or glaze helps the linen thread stay knot free during installation.
 
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