Are all the pool halls going out of business???
- Thread starter bigpocket
- Start date
PROG8R said:Where is that ban at?
Would someone please enforce it in Brevard county!! I am sick of playing for 1-2 hours and then having to go shower and change clothes before I can go anywhere else. And the smell of it when I hit the showers comming up out of my skin and hair is sickening. All the places around here you can see a cloud of it across the rooms. Eyes burning,
Shave your head and play naked!!
PROG8R said:Where is that ban at?
Would someone please enforce it in Brevard county!! I am sick of playing for 1-2 hours and then having to go shower and change clothes before I can go anywhere else. And the smell of it when I hit the showers comming up out of my skin and hair is sickening. All the places around here you can see a cloud of it across the rooms. Eyes burning,
Not just Brevard County... Dade and Broward too... I haven't seen any smoking ban down in South Florida at all. Maybe in restaurants, but certainly not in bars/clubs.
I figured out awhile ago that leagues are killing pool, they taught poeple that it is ok to play for fun. Who would watch horse races if they didn't have a bet etc.
The best players in my town play their 5 games a week and go home, these are the same people who wouldn't screw their cues together for less than $20 a game when they were growing up. Up and comming players never get to see the best play because you never know what scummy bar the will be at for their 5 games from week to week so they peak at a B player and stay in the same league and play the same guy's for the next twenty years.
League players also demand free pool time and the best equipment while having water or a pop from 7-9 during their match and then they go home until next week.
Bern
The best players in my town play their 5 games a week and go home, these are the same people who wouldn't screw their cues together for less than $20 a game when they were growing up. Up and comming players never get to see the best play because you never know what scummy bar the will be at for their 5 games from week to week so they peak at a B player and stay in the same league and play the same guy's for the next twenty years.
League players also demand free pool time and the best equipment while having water or a pop from 7-9 during their match and then they go home until next week.
Bern
Not this league player, "I'm like a chocoholic except for booze"Big Bad Bern said:
Not the first time
My room has been in business since 1964 (we purchased in 1966)
This is not the first time pool has gone in a cycle. At one point in the 1970s there were only two pool rooms in St. Louis. Ours and a room called Affton Billiards down on the southside of St. Louis in the county. There was NO smoking ban then. But I am sure lots of owners placed the blame on SOMETHING. There were at least 20 major rooms at its peak in the 90s. Not too mention a hundred bars with tables. That has changed.
Truth is this. It is very difficult to survive in ANY business.
Will the smoking ban put a room under? Yes.
Will a dishonest bartender put a room under? Yes.
Will Video games put a room under? Yes.
Will a change in liquor sales tax put a room under? Yes
Will a new casino put a room under? Yes.
Will a new curfew law put a room under? Yes.
Will poker games put a room under? Yes
Will a new handicap parking law put a room under? Yes.
Change is happening all the time in business. Laws change year to year. Having to deal with new insurance regulations or new legal requirements are part of the struggle. Being innovative and changing to comply with these laws are key to making it. Pool hasn't been a major source of my companies income since about 1969...Why? Theres no money in it!!!!!! Every pool player thinks that a $5 pool tab pays for rent, health insurance, workman's compensation insurance, employees salaries, pool table repairs, cleaning materials, toilet paper, cable tv....the list make me sick just thinking of it. The money is in quick sales. Selling a cue stick...selling a beer.. or a soda..selling bbq wings..selling a tip tapper. It all adds up. Smoking bans are just the current flavor of the month for blame. 21 states have smoking bans. Illinois goes Jan 1st. Does this mean 22 states will no longer have pool? 
It MUST be so if smoking bans kill pool...right? Too bad California doesnt have a single pool room anymore.
Room owners putting the blame on just one or two reasons for failure isn't being realistic by any means. Unless a city passes a ordinance making pool illegal and alcohol illlegal...there CAN be pool rooms. Maybe not the ficticious rooms guys see in movies. You know, the ones that haven't been a good business model since 1956? There WILL be a jukebox..There will be wings..There will be kids...There will be video games. There HAS to be. If you arent willing to pay $10.00/ hour all day every day...(and all your friends too) more cases than not...you arent spending enough to keep a room alive. Just an economic fact.
4 major pool rooms went under in St. Louis this year alone.
Pool has shown a decline in income for 3 years straight.
People do not drink as much due to DWI laws and checkpoints.
This means league play is down in a lot of places in St Louis.
All players alike..whether they are casual bangers or serious players are either part of the problem or part of the solution. If you went to a pool room that went under..ask yourself..what did YOU do to keep it afloat. Did you only play once a month? Did you bring in new friends to play pool? Did you just loiter, watch tv and complain about no "action". What will YOU do to keep a room in business? Will you con a bartender into sneaking you free drinks all night or sneak beers from your car? Or will you pay your bar tab, tip the waitress and buy a round for friends? Everyones actions...Owners AND patrons alike have a direct influence on whether a company stays afloat.
No owners want to put themselves out of business. But sometimes the day to day fight is overwhelming and you just give up. I have my good days and bad days dealing with accountants and salesmen and 50 Mickey mouse problems that come up. Dealing with complaints from regulars that spend $3 a day. But I know I want to keep my father's dream alive so I keep going back and just dealing with it. Pool will survive.
I'm doing my part in keeping a single pool room alive. Are you doing YOUR part?
My room has been in business since 1964 (we purchased in 1966)
This is not the first time pool has gone in a cycle. At one point in the 1970s there were only two pool rooms in St. Louis. Ours and a room called Affton Billiards down on the southside of St. Louis in the county. There was NO smoking ban then. But I am sure lots of owners placed the blame on SOMETHING. There were at least 20 major rooms at its peak in the 90s. Not too mention a hundred bars with tables. That has changed.
Truth is this. It is very difficult to survive in ANY business.
Will the smoking ban put a room under? Yes.
Will a dishonest bartender put a room under? Yes.
Will Video games put a room under? Yes.
Will a change in liquor sales tax put a room under? Yes
Will a new casino put a room under? Yes.
Will a new curfew law put a room under? Yes.
Will poker games put a room under? Yes
Will a new handicap parking law put a room under? Yes.
Change is happening all the time in business. Laws change year to year. Having to deal with new insurance regulations or new legal requirements are part of the struggle. Being innovative and changing to comply with these laws are key to making it. Pool hasn't been a major source of my companies income since about 1969...Why? Theres no money in it!!!!!! Every pool player thinks that a $5 pool tab pays for rent, health insurance, workman's compensation insurance, employees salaries, pool table repairs, cleaning materials, toilet paper, cable tv....the list make me sick just thinking of it.
The money is in quick sales. Selling a cue stick...selling a beer.. or a soda..selling bbq wings..selling a tip tapper. It all adds up. Smoking bans are just the current flavor of the month for blame. 21 states have smoking bans. Illinois goes Jan 1st. Does this mean 22 states will no longer have pool? It MUST be so if smoking bans kill pool...right? Too bad California doesnt have a single pool room anymore. Room owners putting the blame on just one or two reasons for failure isn't being realistic by any means. Unless a city passes a ordinance making pool illegal and alcohol illlegal...there CAN be pool rooms. Maybe not the ficticious rooms guys see in movies. You know, the ones that haven't been a good business model since 1956? There WILL be a jukebox..There will be wings..There will be kids...There will be video games. There HAS to be. If you arent willing to pay $10.00/ hour all day every day...(and all your friends too) more cases than not...you arent spending enough to keep a room alive. Just an economic fact.
4 major pool rooms went under in St. Louis this year alone.
Pool has shown a decline in income for 3 years straight.
People do not drink as much due to DWI laws and checkpoints.
This means league play is down in a lot of places in St Louis.
All players alike..whether they are casual bangers or serious players are either part of the problem or part of the solution. If you went to a pool room that went under..ask yourself..what did YOU do to keep it afloat. Did you only play once a month? Did you bring in new friends to play pool? Did you just loiter, watch tv and complain about no "action". What will YOU do to keep a room in business? Will you con a bartender into sneaking you free drinks all night or sneak beers from your car? Or will you pay your bar tab, tip the waitress and buy a round for friends? Everyones actions...Owners AND patrons alike have a direct influence on whether a company stays afloat.
No owners want to put themselves out of business. But sometimes the day to day fight is overwhelming and you just give up. I have my good days and bad days dealing with accountants and salesmen and 50 Mickey mouse problems that come up. Dealing with complaints from regulars that spend $3 a day. But I know I want to keep my father's dream alive so I keep going back and just dealing with it. Pool will survive.
I'm doing my part in keeping a single pool room alive. Are you doing YOUR part?
Retail Business
Pool halls are a retail business just like any of the millions of businesses in the USA. They all are have a product to sell and a customer base to sell it to.
Laws (smoking ban) don't just apply to pool halls, it also applies to any retail business that has employees that are subject to health problems (smoke) while at the work place.
Food, table time, beer and sprits are not much different than Bowling allys and you don't hear about the Bowling centers closing their doors do ya?
I am lucky to be part of a pool hall that is thriving and growning. Lots of steady retail customers and tournament player numbers just keep growing.
If I had the money, I would open my own retail store... Jay... got any tables for sale?
Pool halls are a retail business just like any of the millions of businesses in the USA. They all are have a product to sell and a customer base to sell it to.
Laws (smoking ban) don't just apply to pool halls, it also applies to any retail business that has employees that are subject to health problems (smoke) while at the work place.
Food, table time, beer and sprits are not much different than Bowling allys and you don't hear about the Bowling centers closing their doors do ya?
I am lucky to be part of a pool hall that is thriving and growning. Lots of steady retail customers and tournament player numbers just keep growing.
If I had the money, I would open my own retail store... Jay... got any tables for sale?
Johnnyt said:
Tap tap!!!
And don't forget the competition from all of the govt-backed event centers. Each time a civic center, casino, sports arena, ball park, ad nauseum, is forced down a city's throat and the money taken--by force!---from your amusement budget, the pool halls, bars, bowling alleys, etc. are left with less customers, less profits.
Governments are supposed to protect us, not entertain (some of) us. These venues never bring in the business dollars they promise but waste taxpayers' money. Many sit empty most of the time. Sad and destructive to us pool players, for sure.
Jeff Livingston
MikeM said:clean air to breath while playing pool...sounds nice. Unfortunately since I live in Virginia, where the state passed a preemptive law banning municipalities from passing a smoking ban, I'll never get to experience it.
MM
What? Because the govt won't do it, it can't be done?
Ridiculous. Here's an idea: Read CueandCushion's great post and do it yourself.
Jeff Livingston
GET OFF YOUR KNEES AND ON YOUR FEET LIKE MAN IS SUPPOSED TO LIVE!
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Interesting.
NOTE! He said that MUNICIPALITIES cannot pass the law. It just means the STATE will pass the law. That way the STATE gets the fines paid and maintains control over the issue. Workmans Compensation prices are skyrocketing for any business that allows smoking. Simple economic facts will mean NO BUSINESS will be able to AFFORD smoking if they want to stay afloat. State governments pay out Workmans comp. claims..and that includes second hand smoke claims. Lawsuits against employers are also ballooning for second hand smoke getting people sick. If I have the choice of paying $22,000 a year for a non smoking place or $100,000 a year to allow smoking. What do you think I will choose if I am only making 3% profit on my business? Would you pay 4 times your current pool time for a smoking place? Most people will not.
$4.00/hour for non smokers.......$16.00/hour for smokers to pay for liability insurance. Will people vote their right to choose..or vote their wallets?
Everyone can quote me...All 50 States will have non-smoking laws for businesses within 10 years. They cannot afford NOT to.
Virginia WILL have non-smoking ordinaces passed someday..and someday soon. Over/under....6 years.
Only this long because I believe Virginia has a huge tobacco farmer industry there. I added 2 more years.
Thank you for the kind words chefjeff...It is appreciated.
chefjeff said:
NOTE! He said that MUNICIPALITIES cannot pass the law. It just means the STATE will pass the law. That way the STATE gets the fines paid and maintains control over the issue. Workmans Compensation prices are skyrocketing for any business that allows smoking. Simple economic facts will mean NO BUSINESS will be able to AFFORD smoking if they want to stay afloat. State governments pay out Workmans comp. claims..and that includes second hand smoke claims. Lawsuits against employers are also ballooning for second hand smoke getting people sick. If I have the choice of paying $22,000 a year for a non smoking place or $100,000 a year to allow smoking. What do you think I will choose if I am only making 3% profit on my business? Would you pay 4 times your current pool time for a smoking place? Most people will not.
$4.00/hour for non smokers.......$16.00/hour for smokers to pay for liability insurance. Will people vote their right to choose..or vote their wallets?
Everyone can quote me...All 50 States will have non-smoking laws for businesses within 10 years. They cannot afford NOT to.
Virginia WILL have non-smoking ordinaces passed someday..and someday soon. Over/under....6 years.
Only this long because I believe Virginia has a huge tobacco farmer industry there. I added 2 more years.
Thank you for the kind words chefjeff...It is appreciated.
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cueandcushion said:My room has been in business since 1964 (we purchased in 1966)
Truth is this. It is very difficult to survive in ANY business.
Smoking bans are just the current flavor of the month for blame. 21 states have smoking bans. Illinois goes Jan 1st. Does this mean 22 states will no longer have pool?
Room owners putting the blame on just one or two reasons for failure isn't being realistic by any means.
I'm doing my part in keeping a single pool room alive. Are you doing YOUR part?
Tap, Tap, Tap!!! Rep for you!
cueandcushion said:
I was thinking along the lines the HE could open a non-smoking pool room...or deal with the smoke on his own as I do. It seems more are calling for the govt to "fix" problems that the govt has no business "fixing." sigh
Here in Des Moines, there are many non-smoking establishments and the law doesn't require it. Big Dogs has a good air system so I am not really bothered by the smoke there.
cueandcushion said:
I respect your posts so much as you are walking the talk. I almost always learn something valuable from your thoughts. May you profit beyond your dreams.
Jeff Livingston
Johnnyt said:
Not in "Sticks 'n Stones" in West Palm Beach as of 2 weeks ago when I was on vaca down there.
Smoking bans are NOT what is causing the decline of pool. Smokers deal with smoking bans to do other things that they WANT to do, they just don't want to do pool. I think the biggest culprits are lack of interest and current cost to rent space.
Whether or not smoking bans are legitimate and a good thing is a separate discussion for the NPR sub-forum.
Whether or not smoking bans are legitimate and a good thing is a separate discussion for the NPR sub-forum.
jimmy-leggs said:
Amen to that! That would mean more money for action, table time and league and tourney fees. Also we can redistribute the wealth going to the tobacco industry and the medical expenses for people that are and going to be afflicted with smoking-related diseases.