Are raffles legal in the US?

E

ersatzplayer

Registered
[please delete]

[edit: I got the point - I'm happy to have the thread deleted]

Sorry about the basic question. I am new to this forum and just discovered the raffle section. Aren't raffles illegal in the United States? I'm not an expert in this area, but here's what I think the law says:

A lottery is:
"A gambling scheme in which consideration is taken in return for the offering of a prize that will be given on the basis of chance and not merit. 212 F. 662. The use of interstate commerce, the U.S. Mail, or radio or television to distribute or advertise a lottery constitutes a federal crime. 18 U.S.C. ??1301 et seq. However, these laws do not apply to any lottery conducted by a state, 18 U.S.C. ?1307, nor to a sweepstakes (for which no consideration is required) conducted by a business entity."

To me that means raffling a cue (prize) for money (consideration) using a powerball or whatever (chance not merit) is illegal. Using the internet for it (interstate commerce) makes this a federal crime.

Am I missing something? Is there an exception I don't know of? I thought this was the reason ebay doesn't allow raffles...

Maybe one of the experienced rafflers can clear this up for me, cause some of these cues sure look great! :D

Thanks!
 
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This has been hashed over no end before & I'm sure those trying to raffle cues would appreciate not suffering another ad infinitum string bumping them down the page.
(I'm sure your intentions may be good, but...)
 
ersatzplayer said:
Sorry about the basic question. I am new to this forum and just discovered the raffle section. Aren't raffles illegal in the United States? I'm not an expert in this area, but here's what I think the law says:

A lottery is:
"A gambling scheme in which consideration is taken in return for the offering of a prize that will be given on the basis of chance and not merit. 212 F. 662. The use of interstate commerce, the U.S. Mail, or radio or television to distribute or advertise a lottery constitutes a federal crime. 18 U.S.C. ??1301 et seq. However, these laws do not apply to any lottery conducted by a state, 18 U.S.C. ?1307, nor to a sweepstakes (for which no consideration is required) conducted by a business entity."

To me that means raffling a cue (prize) for money (consideration) using a powerball or whatever (chance not merit) is illegal. Using the internet for it (interstate commerce) makes this a federal crime.

Am I missing something? Is there an exception I don't know of? I thought this was the reason ebay doesn't allow raffles...

Maybe one of the experienced rafflers can clear this up for me, cause some of these cues sure look great! :D

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I thought these raffles fell under the "social gambling" category described here but would like to hear some legal input on this question. There are several AZers who appear to have a legal knowledge or training. What say you?
 
tommie1351 said:
If you think there is something wrong with then just don't participate.
Click to expand...


It goes beyond this...

When the cat comes out of the bag (and it eventually will), there is the possibility that AzB will be hit with a large fine and potentially be shut down. Those who love AzB have the right.....nay....the obligation to speak out. To say nothing.....well.....then, as members, you bear part of the burden of why this great forum may eventually fall.

I'm sure there's a Fed somewhere with a calculator in hand....aggregating the values of all the raffles that have been held here..... waiting for the result to exceed a magic number ($100K?) before taking action.

Anyways, personally, I don't mind too much these raffles.....especially now that there's a separate section established. If, in the remote chance that AzB get's shut down, well...for me....life moves on....and another forum will eventually take it's place in the world. Of course it would suck.... but the sun will still rise in the morning.
 
Good imagination! :thumbup:

I'm sure there isn't a fed somewhere. You are wayyyyyy too paranoid. There are kiddie porn forums and forums about counterfeit ipods and counterfeit watches and terrorist forums.

This raffle forum falls WAY below the radar my friend.

How do you sleep at night being that paranoid. The forum's not going anywhere.

Somtimes I rip the tag off my mattress. Im in serious trouble.

8-Baller said:
It goes beyond this...

When the cat comes out of the bag (and it eventually will), there is the possibility that AzB will be hit with a large fine and potentially be shut down. Those who love AzB have the right.....nay....the obligation to speak out. To say nothing.....well.....then, as members, you bear part of the burden of why this great forum may eventually fall.

I'm sure there's a Fed somewhere with a calculator in hand....aggregating the values of all the raffles that have been held here..... waiting for the result to exceed a magic number ($100K?) before taking action.

Anyways, personally, I don't mind too much these raffles.....especially now that there's a separate section established. If, in the remote chance that AzB get's shut down, well...for me....life moves on....and another forum will eventually take it's place in the world. Of course it would suck.... but the sun will still rise in the morning.
Click to expand...
 
Not paranoid bro. It has happened before and forums have been shut down. You think authorities focus on one topic at a time? That's just plain naive.

My little Fed example was just a visual... and was not meant to be literal. But you can be assured that Internet crimes are on the rise and that topics like online kiddie porn, Internet fraud and illegal online gambling is getting more and more scrutiny as the years go by.

But if being naive helps you sleep at night, then I suggest you continue to live life believing that the guy that came into your property last night was just the tooth fairy who needed to borrow your car for a while.
 
8-Baller said:
Not paranoid bro. It has happened before and forums have been shut down. You think authorities focus on one topic at a time? That's just plain naive.

My little Fed example was just a visual... and was not meant to be literal. But you can be assured that Internet crimes are on the rise and that topics like online kiddie porn, Internet fraud and illegal online gambling is getting more and more scrutiny as the years go by.

But if being naive helps you sleep at night, then I suggest you continue to live life believing that the guy that came into your property last night was just the tooth fairy who needed to borrow your car for a while.
Click to expand...

I would think the the site owners looked into before they made a raffle section. If they don't have a problem with it why do you?
 
oneballeddie said:
I thought these raffles fell under the "social gambling" category described here but would like to hear some legal input on this question. There are several AZers who appear to have a legal knowledge or training. What say you?
Click to expand...

just to reply to your question: the social gambling exception will not apply, as point 3 of the section your link references reads:

"Gambling is conducted 'as a business' when it is engaged in with the object of gain, benefit or advantage, either direct or indirect, realized or unrealized, but not when incidental to a bona fide social relationship."

Gambling as a business (here to get money for a cue instead of selling it outright) is specifically excluded from the social gambling exception.

Hope this answers your question! :)
 
Well

it sure is a gamble when a cue is raffled off for more than the cue is worth.

or the raffler raffles off for $1,200 retail, when they could only get $800 if they tried to sell it. Seen cues on here where the owner is making $50 to $200 above what the cue could sell for outright, and that is not right for a raffle.
 
Snapshot9 said:
it sure is a gamble when a cue is raffled off for more than the cue is worth.

or the raffler raffles off for $1,200 retail, when they could only get $800 if they tried to sell it. Seen cues on here where the owner is making $50 to $200 above what the cue could sell for outright, and that is not right for a raffle.
Click to expand...

Did you consider paypel fees , shipping and insurance. Also how do you know no one would have bought it for that price sooner or later?

I don't know why this is a issue with anybody. The site allows it and I'm sure they aren't stupid, they even went so far as to make a special section for it.
Let it drop it is a non issue for the site it should be a non issue for users of the site.
 
Snapshot9 said:
it sure is a gamble when a cue is raffled off for more than the cue is worth.

or the raffler raffles off for $1,200 retail, when they could only get $800 if they tried to sell it. Seen cues on here where the owner is making $50 to $200 above what the cue could sell for outright, and that is not right for a raffle.
Click to expand...

See...I just don't agree with this. There's nothing in the world that mankind sells, where he doesn't try to profit to the maximum extent possible. The only number anyone here should be concerned with is how much it costs you per opportunity, for the chance to win a great cue. I have a Sugartree in my avatar that I could probably raffle off for $75-$100 a ticket on a 42-ball drawing. Some of the Ginacue's and SW's that have been raffled off have made very nice returns too...and I guarantee you that no one even flinched at a chance to win one of those cues for that kinda cost. Besides...for the time and effort it takes to conduct a raffle, collect all the funds via Paypal...etc...I really don't see any problem with the conductor capitalizing on their efforts to give a ton of people a chance to win wonderful cue at a miniscule fraction of its actual worth.

Mind you....I've never run a raffle, or participated in one. Maybe one day....
 
worth every nickel

Anyone who thinks you just build a thread and kick back and collect should try it sometime. A person earns every nickel they make,as long as they don't get carried away. I agree that a cue or whatever should fall somewhere around what it is worth. People on this site are intelligent and know what they are doing. They are not going to go for being taken advantage of.
 
if someone makes a couple hundred extra, but it takes them a few hours of work to run the raffle then it is reasonable. if i was raffling off a cue i would charge as much as i thought i could get and i think most others would to.
 
Retail1LO said:
See...I just don't agree with this. There's nothing in the world that mankind sells, where he doesn't try to profit to the maximum extent possible. The only number anyone here should be concerned with is how much it costs you per opportunity, for the chance to win a great cue. I have a Sugartree in my avatar that I could probably raffle off for $75-$100 a ticket on a 42-ball drawing. Some of the Ginacue's and SW's that have been raffled off have made very nice returns too...and I guarantee you that no one even flinched at a chance to win one of those cues for that kinda cost. Besides...for the time and effort it takes to conduct a raffle, collect all the funds via Paypal...etc...I really don't see any problem with the conductor capitalizing on their efforts to give a ton of people a chance to win wonderful cue at a miniscule fraction of its actual worth.

Mind you....I've never run a raffle, or participated in one. Maybe one day....
Click to expand...

Well said...
I've sold several cues via the raffle, and I've participated in several as well.
Hell, I even won a SouthWest via the raffle. You don't have to convince me that raffles are a worthwhile endevour...
It also shouldn't matter how much profit the raffler makes, as long as you
think the price per spot is worth it, then it shouldn't matter what the profit margin is...
 
ersatzplayer said:
Sorry about the basic question. I am new to this forum and just discovered the raffle section. Aren't raffles illegal in the United States? I'm not an expert in this area, but here's what I think the law says:

A lottery is:
"A gambling scheme in which consideration is taken in return for the offering of a prize that will be given on the basis of chance and not merit. 212 F. 662. The use of interstate commerce, the U.S. Mail, or radio or television to distribute or advertise a lottery constitutes a federal crime. 18 U.S.C. ??1301 et seq. However, these laws do not apply to any lottery conducted by a state, 18 U.S.C. ?1307, nor to a sweepstakes (for which no consideration is required) conducted by a business entity."

To me that means raffling a cue (prize) for money (consideration) using a powerball or whatever (chance not merit) is illegal. Using the internet for it (interstate commerce) makes this a federal crime.

Am I missing something? Is there an exception I don't know of? I thought this was the reason ebay doesn't allow raffles...

Maybe one of the experienced rafflers can clear this up for me, cause some of these cues sure look great! :D

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I wasn't going to say anything but...I'm having trouble understanding why someone would start this thread, especially, someone who joined just a month ago. Why would you go on a "raffle" forum, where people have been and are curently raffling cues, and ask if it were legal.. If you want information about cues and how to use them etc., this is the best place in the world,IMHO. If you want legal advise, talk to an attorney or, go to an attorney forum and ask. It is obvious what the AZ site owners believe, ( they have a raffle section). There are alot of members that don't care for raffles, now that raffles have a seperate section, they don't ever have to see the raffle threads. If you don't like, believe in , or disagree with raffles, don't visit this section.
 
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