Are safeties must be called at 10ball?

maestro de pool

Focus Concetration Nerves
Silver Member
Your oppononent call the 3ball at left corner pocket,missed the 3 and you end up hooked,snookered.Do you think that its in your decision if you play or pass the shot to him?or you must play although he leave you a lucky safe?
what is the WPA rules say about it?:embarrassed2:
 

Luther Blissett

on the clapham omnibus
Silver Member
You can only give the shot back to him if he pots a ball in an unintended pocket or pots an unintended ball in any pocket. If he doesn't pot anything, you can't give the shot back to him.
 

Chip Roberson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would for one, like to see every thing revert back to the old rules--2 shot foul--that way in an instance like this you could push out and then your opponent would have the option to take the shot or give it back to you. You would really see some increadable shot making taking place. The game was changed to make it shorter for TV years ago and now we have one shot foul and guess what--it's still not on TV in a big way that all thought it would be--it's there just on occasions--
 

Luther Blissett

on the clapham omnibus
Silver Member
that way in an instance like this you could push out and then your opponent would have the option to take the shot or give it back to you

Hold on, OP is talking about a game that's already in play. I don't think push-out would be an option here in any case.
 

curly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would for one, like to see every thing revert back to the old rules--2 shot foul--that way in an instance like this you could push out and then your opponent would have the option to take the shot or give it back to you. You would really see some increadable shot making taking place. The game was changed to make it shorter for TV years ago and now we have one shot foul and guess what--it's still not on TV in a big way that all thought it would be--it's there just on occasions--

I agree with you 100%! I really enjoyed playing the old rules..push-out anytime with the 2 shot foul rule. Also cue ball in hand in the kitchen on a foul rather than anywhere on the table. We would practice spot shots for hours cuz it was a crucial shot especially if someone scratched on the nine ball. I think the new 10 ball rules are much better than the one foul 9 ball rules.
Curly
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can only give the shot back to him if he pots a ball in an unintended pocket or pots an unintended ball in any pocket. If he doesn't pot anything, you can't give the shot back to him.

not true...at the pro ten ball tournament at valley forge you must call safe. I saw johny archer miss a shot and get a lucky leave. I looked a way to another table and when I looked back johny was setting up to shoot the shot he just left. i asked the guy next to me wth lol he told me they were playing by international rules which means if I get a lucky safe my opponent can give the shot back. one pool no rules are consistent lol they change and adjust the rules depending on what tournament your playing in.
 

Luther Blissett

on the clapham omnibus
Silver Member
not true...at the pro ten ball tournament at valley forge you must call safe. I saw johny archer miss a shot and get a lucky leave. I looked a way to another table and when I looked back johny was setting up to shoot the shot he just left. i asked the guy next to me wth lol he told me they were playing by international rules which means if I get a lucky safe my opponent can give the shot back. one pool no rules are consistent lol they change and adjust the rules depending on what tournament your playing in.

Good grief. :rolleyes:

When did they make that rule change?

When I learnt the rules of ten ball it was from someone with an official ref's qualification, so either he doesn't deserve his certificate or that change came in since he taught me.
 

StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
I'm pretty sure the rules haven't changed. I'm positive the BCA/WPA world standardized rules still say you can only give the shot back if a ball was made.
 

oldschool1478

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From WPA Rule book;

9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)

9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are a couple of different rule sets to 10 ball. Both are valid rule sets. You just have to know which set of rules you are playing by. One set takes all the luck of the game out and makes it pure skill, and being punished for lack of skill. Some don't like the tougher rules because it takes away "2 way shots".
 

Luther Blissett

on the clapham omnibus
Silver Member
From WPA Rule book;

9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)

9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.

I also googled the rules and came across these, although neither 9.6 nor 9.7 would seem to have any bearing on OP's question, as those rules concern what happens following a pot rather than what happens following an accidental snooker. Don't you agree?
 

oldschool1478

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As I understand it, there is an optional "no slop' set of rules (as Neil points out) under the WPA that would give the incoming player the option to give that shot back to the shooter.

The BCAPL rules are the same as the less strict version of WPA.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have played 10-ball with the old 'push-out' rules...
...and I have played 10-ball 'Texas express'....
...I liked both sets of rules.

The new rules (with or without the option) remind me of why I wouldn't
play 'bar rules' 8-ball in the 70's....I'm hearing kindergarten thinking here.

What's next?...having your thumbs broken for playing 2 and 3-way shots?

10-ball can carry on without me
 

JuicyGirl

Scroll Lock- Juicy Style
Silver Member
We have
Push is ok only right after the break.
Call a safety or call ball and pocket
If you foul or scratch its ball in hand.
So if you call a ball and pocket but go in the wrong pocket you lose your turn . If I don't like the shot you left I can pass it back.
If you call a safety I have to take it as is,
I like our rules

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
 

BelleBelle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe in order to make 10 ball or nineball a better game luck should be eliminated as much as possible. If I shot a shot and miss but hook my opponent he or she shouldn't be penalized because of my miss. They should have the option to pass the shot back.
 

Luther Blissett

on the clapham omnibus
Silver Member
I believe in order to make 10 ball or nineball a better game luck should be eliminated as much as possible. If I shot a shot and miss but hook my opponent he or she shouldn't be penalized because of my miss. They should have the option to pass the shot back.

One problem I can see with that rule is that when you're playing without a ref present, there could be situations where one player thinks that it's just possible to hit the edge of a legal ball but the other player disagrees.

I've been in that situation a few times in friendly games, though fortunately it's simply been an interesting discussion point, rather than something on which the option of passing the shot back depended.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One problem I can see with that rule is that when you're playing without a ref present, there could be situations where one player thinks that it's just possible to hit the edge of a legal ball but the other player disagrees.

I've been in that situation a few times in friendly games, though fortunately it's simply been an interesting discussion point, rather than something on which the option of passing the shot back depended.

You don't have to be hooked to pass it back, you just have to want your opponent to shoot it instead of you trying to shoot it. Any time your opponent misses, you can pass it back to him.
 

JuicyGirl

Scroll Lock- Juicy Style
Silver Member
You don't have to be hooked to pass it back, you just have to want your opponent to shoot it instead of you trying to shoot it. Any time your opponent misses, you can pass it back to him.
yup

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Luther Blissett

on the clapham omnibus
Silver Member
You don't have to be hooked to pass it back, you just have to want your opponent to shoot it instead of you trying to shoot it. Any time your opponent misses, you can pass it back to him.

Ah I see what you're saying.

Yeah, I've also seen nine ball matches where that rule has been applied. Don't think I'd enjoy the game as much though playing that way. ...I mean you're going to face every tough shot knowing that if you miss, there's absolutely no chance of finishing safe. OK it takes lucky leaves out the game, but it also takes a bit of excitement out too: As the other guy can always give the shot back, you know that the player at the table is in a weaker position the moment you see that he's missed, whereas normally you have to wait till all the material balls have stopped rolling before you know if he's got away with the miss or not. Those extra few seconds of uncertainty add a bit of drama and tension to the game which to me makes it more fun to play and watch.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
There are a couple of different rule sets to 10 ball. Both are valid rule sets. You just have to know which set of rules you are playing by. One set takes all the luck of the game out and makes it pure skill, and being punished for lack of skill. Some don't like the tougher rules because it takes away "2 way shots".
The WPA rules (making it a push when any ball is pocketed at the end of an inning) allow 2-way shots - just not with any balls pocketed.

pj
chgo
 
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