Are there any cuemakers who don't use ivory?

[cueman]

Mariposa and Jim Wau are a couple of cuemakers that won't use Ivory. I have started using some camel bone in cues. It took a while to get the guys over seas to get the bleaching formula just right to give the right color. It makes great inlays, but not joints and ferrules. I still use a lot of Elephant Ivory myself also. I would say most of the non carved tusks here in the states were taken legally, even before 1989. Who knows about the carved ones. The carved ones were most likely killed by natives and sold in shops. The non-carved pairs that we find in estate sales were usually taken by the deceased on a Safari. Back in 1988 the main cue ivory supplier here in the states told me, he witnessed a public hanging of poachers in Africa and that once the ban went in effect the next year, that he would quit importing it. So poaching has been looked down on in Africa long before the ban took effect.
I have seen and read documentaries that culling the elephant population in Africa is essential, to keep them from starving and doing too much damage to the environment, property, wild life and human populations. CITES has approved the export sale of Ivory by a few African countries that have proven to have taken the whole situation into account, and have brought poaching under reasonable control, while culling the elephant population to healthy levels. But the USA has still not approved the import from those countries.
We have deer hunting permits here in the USA issued during the famous deer hunting season. Some countries there issue the same permits for elephants. If we stop deer hunting here the deer will over populate, cause a huge amount of enviromental and property damage and in the end, it will be disease that will bring their population back to reasonable levels. Same thing with elephants. So if they must be culled, why waste the ivory?
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[Cuebacca]

Thanks for trolling through.

Man.. all this talk about animals is making me hungry...

But really, can we please find a use for cats, I would really appreciate someone using them for something other than house pets.

Personally, I think they would be a good substitue for clay pigeons.

JV

I think the way someone treats animals can be a clue into how they may treat people. Sometimes animals have to be killed for various reasons, but to get your jollies out of it? Please.

 

[Rasta]

In my opinion, legal doesn't necessarily equate to right, [nor] illegal to wrong.

Praise Jah!

Good Rolls,
Rasta

 

[JoeyInCali]

That's one I haven't figured out...why India banned the export of Stag material. Stag handles & scales on knifes was a popular use. You see, no deer were killed for this stag, it was a picking up of antlers that the deer shed annually....here in my part of the country it's rare to find shed antlers though. Porcupines & other rodents eat them rather quickly.

Because the sambars were being shot for their antlers.
Sambars are protected. Shooting them is punishable by death ON THE SPOT in India.

 

[Cuebacca]

Praise Jah!

Good Rolls,
Rasta

LOL!!!

 

[Cuebacca]

Mariposa and Jim Wau are a couple of cuemakers that won't use Ivory. I have started using some camel bone in cues. It took a while to get the guys over seas to get the bleaching formula just right to give the right color. It makes great inlays, but not joints and ferrules. I still use a lot of Elephant Ivory myself also. I would say most of the non carved tusks here in the states were taken legally, even before 1989. Who knows about the carved ones. The carved ones were most likely killed by natives and sold in shops. The non-carved pairs that we find in estate sales were usually taken by the deceased on a Safari. Back in 1988 the main cue ivory supplier here in the states told me, he witnessed a public hanging of poachers in Africa and that once the ban went in effect the next year, that he would quit importing it. So poaching has been looked down on in Africa long before the ban took effect.
I have seen and read documentaries that culling the elephant population in Africa is essential, to keep them from starving and doing too much damage to the environment, property, wild life and human populations. CITES has approved the export sale of Ivory by a few African countries that have proven to have taken the whole situation into account, and have brought poaching under reasonable control, while culling the elephant population to healthy levels. But the USA has still not approved the import from those countries.
We have deer hunting permits here in the USA issued during the famous deer hunting season. Some countries there issue the same permits for elephants. If we stop deer hunting here the deer will over populate, cause a huge amount of enviromental and property damage and in the end, it will be disease that will bring their population back to reasonable levels. Same thing with elephants. So if they must be culled, why waste the ivory?
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

Good post. Thanks for the info, Cueman. I agree, if an animal must die, using their parts to the fullest extent possible is a good thing.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Good post. Thanks for the info, Cueman. I agree, if an animal must die, using their parts to the fullest extent possible is a good thing.

Kinda sad though that the stockpile of rhino ivory in Zimbabwe is so valuable, the govt is poised to make a ton of money if they became extinct.

 

[Cuebacca]

Kinda sad though that the stockpile of rhino ivory in Zimbabwe is so valuable, the govt is poised to make a ton of money if they became extinct.

Wow, thanks for another good, insightful, post. That does sound like the tricky part. In an ideal situation, it should be someone unbiased that decides that the animal "must" die, instead of someone that might have a hidden agenda.

 

[bandido]

yeah all cues in the US are probably preban, but I got a cue off of ebay (plays fantastic by the way) from the philippines and they covered it with a latex paint to cover up the ivory from customs. Pain in butt to take that stuff off too.

Time and energy in exchange for currency is a normally accepted form of commerce.

 

[bandido]

Mariposa and Jim Wau are a couple of cuemakers that won't use Ivory.

I may not recall correctly but didn't Mariposa at one time have a cue in the Blue Book that had butterflies scrimmed on ivory?

 

[JoeyInCali]

I may not recall correctly but didn't Mariposa at one time have a cue in the Blue Book that had butterflies scrimmed on ivory?

John Esch ( spelling ? ) wouldn't have done that.
He even used water based finish and wood joint threads.
I had a cocobolo Mariposa one time.
He no longer makes cues as far as I know. He was in the chicago area iirc.
Joey~Not an environmentalist. Just respectful of the environment and wondering what Ed is doing at 1 AM in Manila~

 

[classiccues]

I think the way someone treats animals can be a clue into how they may treat people. Sometimes animals have to be killed for various reasons, but to get your jollies out of it? Please.

Hey get a sense of humor will you...

JV

 

[classiccues]

I would say most if not all the ivory used in the US is pre-ban. There is nothing wrong with using it IMHO. If someone is going to cry to PETA you need to realize that every tree fallen, evicts some kind of animal out of it's home, and a possible early extermination. So you could take this all the way back to not making cues from wood.

JV

 

[ribdoner]

So you could take this all the way back to not making cues from wood.



MEUCCI's da MAN!!!

CUEBACCA, In all seriousness---only a tiny % of MEUCCI's use IVORY for embellishment.

 

[classiccues]

So you could take this all the way back to not making cues from wood.



MEUCCI's da MAN!!!

CUEBACCA, In all seriousness---only a tiny % of MEUCCI's use IVORY for embellishment.

Well you know Adam.. Meucci's use a polymer substance, polymer is a byproduct of petroleum, which is a by product of pre-ban dinosaurs. So them poor dinosaurs... SAVE THE DINOS.. may they rest in piece...

JV

 

[bigskyjake]

Kinda sad though that the stockpile of rhino ivory in Zimbabwe is so valuable, the govt is poised to make a ton of money if they became extinct.

Uhhhh, sorry to bust your bubble but rhino's don't have ivory their horn is actually composed of layers of a material that is almost the same as a fingernail

 

[BillPorter]

You got me!

Meucci. In fact, they try not to use wood either.

Chris

Had to let out a subdued chuckle over that one.

 

[bandido]

Just respectful of the environment and wondering what Ed is doing at 1 AM in Manila~

Being the cause for the ruin of the environment. They had to bulldoze mountains and drill a bunch of tunnels, thus killing a lot of life forms and destroying their habitat, just to supply me the raw materials that I'm using now. What am I doing at 1 am in Manila? Making the x-plate of your CNC to mount the Y-rails and ballscrew!

 

[bandido]

Uhhhh, sorry to bust your bubble but rhino's don't have ivory their horn is actually composed of layers of a material that is almost the same as a fingernail

Asians and nailbiters need to be told about Viagra.

Ed<<wants a pet rhino for X'mas.

 

[Cuebacca]

I would say most if not all the ivory used in the US is pre-ban. There is nothing wrong with using it IMHO. If someone is going to cry to PETA you need to realize that every tree fallen, evicts some kind of animal out of it's home, and a possible early extermination. So you could take this all the way back to not making cues from wood.

JV

I'm not crying to PETA, any more than you're crying to some elephant hunter's association. LOL. I was just trying to respectfully ask a simple question, which resulted in some folks trying to pick me apart.

Yes, using wood does evict animals from their homes. I already admitted that I'm not perfect, but I guess I haven't convinced the jury that I am aware of that. I appreciate your point, but it seems to suggest that I should not try to do anything because I cannot do everything.

If I'll likely never be a pro, should I quit practicing pool? If I can't afford to give $1000 at Christmas, should I be mocked for giving $100? Just because I use batteries, doesn't mean I have to throw them down the storm drain when I'm done with them.

Simply being a human alive today, I'm going to put some strain on the environment and some animals will die indirectly or directly as a result of my being here. It would be nearly impossible to go through life without using any wood. However, IMO, if there's something pretty easy I can do to help reduce suffering, or to extend the lifespan of our planet, I'm all for giving it a shot.

I wasn't here to chastise anyone, but it is clear to me which wise-guys were looking to pick a fight, and who was interested in having a respectful discussion, which I did actually learn something from. I do appreciate the education I've been given on this subject. Also, I do have a sense of humor, and enjoyed most of the jokes in this thread. Others, unfortunately, were just in poor taste, IMO.