Are we killing folks' stroke ???

stikapos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yesterday, after weeks of hitting with a Deano and a smart shaft fitted cue, I took out an old, stiff hitting 5/16x14 ebony cue. Had to work like a dog to get the cue to do what I wanted it to do, nevermind the deflection. But with a few minutes, I adjusted and began hitting the cue well. Then I started thinking. With the new super shafts, you really never get any negative feedback regarding your stroke. With an older cue, say a TS or a SW, if you hit badly, the cue would practically stop what it was doing and beat you upside the head. So, by relying on "super shafts", are we really killing stroke ? I'm starting to wonder. Practice using something stiff and then use a super shaft ???

tim
 
I wouldn't want to switch back and forth. I think I would lose some confidence, particularly cutting thin with spin.
 
The opposite, the new shafts enhance your stroke, but if you have a poor stroke, even with the most advanced shaft on the market your stroke is still poor. The Tiger "X" Shaft, I myself use to be very perticular to cues, and tapers, weight etc.. After switching to a FURY RP-9 with the "X" Shaft all Im concerned with is my next rack. I have always thought that I had a good stroke, and I do, its just that much better with my new shaft, and Im not switching back.

SPINDOKTOR
 
Last edited:
There is no way that a shaft can do anything to your stroke. It's YOUR stroke, and only YOU can change it. If you have a good stroke, you can make any shaft work for you. If you don't, don't change shafts, change your stroke.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
There is no way that a shaft can do anything to your stroke. It's YOUR stroke, and only YOU can change it. If you have a good stroke, you can make any shaft work for you. If you don't, don't change shafts, change your stroke.
Steve


Right, but having a low deflection shaft can improve your game. I know it helps me, when your playing, you shouldnt need to think about compensating when your using side spin, this is how the "X" shaft enhances my stroke, by allowing me to use more extreme english to get out of tough situations otherwise I would have had trouble with or flat out missed the ball. If thats not an improvement I dont know what is....

SPINDOKTOR
 
pooltchr said:
There is no way that a shaft can do anything to your stroke. It's YOUR stroke, and only YOU can change it. If you have a good stroke, you can make any shaft work for you. If you don't, don't change shafts, change your stroke.
Steve

TAP, TAP, TAP!!!
 
I have certainly noticed differences,i have played with all types of cues and many over a $1000,i was and still am a big fan of the big pin cues and know that it is easier to move the ball around with them.I went from a Helmstetter that had a dead hit to it,i mean my friend who has an awesome big stroke couldnt move the ball well with it,then i got a radial pin custom with a predator shaft and it was a world of difference.After playing with the big pin cues for awhile i am back to SS jointed cues,currently playing with a cheap Stealth cue with 5/16-18 piloted and am hitting the balls great and am moving the ball around just fine,so maybe i bought into the hype about big pin cues or maybe at the time i had a crap stroke.I had my buddy who is an A+ player hit with my cue,he said it hits great and he plays with a Schon,i guess it just had a similar feel to him,i guess you dont need to spend alot of money to get a great hitter. ;)
 
You may well see improvement with a different shaft...but it is due to you adjusting to the shaft, not due to the shaft changing your stroke. Maybe your stroke is more suited to a particular shaft.
The original question was are the new shafts causing players to lose their stroke. My answer was absolutely not. Without the stroke, I don't care what shaft you use, you will still struggle.
Great players will adjust to any shaft. Poor players will not get better just by changing shafts.
Improvement comes through hard work and persistance. There is no magic wand.
What was Efrin shooting with when he first burst onto the professional pool scene?
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
You may well see improvement with a different shaft...but it is due to you adjusting to the shaft, not due to the shaft changing your stroke. Maybe your stroke is more suited to a particular shaft.
The original question was are the new shafts causing players to lose their stroke. My answer was absolutely not. Without the stroke, I don't care what shaft you use, you will still struggle.
Great players will adjust to any shaft. Poor players will not get better just by changing shafts.
Improvement comes through hard work and persistance. There is no magic wand.
What was Efrin shooting with when he first burst onto the professional pool scene?
Steve

I agree nothing beats good mechanics and a stroke but these new shafts do seem to put more action on the cueball.
 
IMO the popularity and subsequente proliferation of "fast" cloth obviated stroke...
 
Patrick Johnson said:
They don't.

pj
chgo
I have had the same stroke for about 6 years now and i get a lot more action with my OB1 then any other shaft i have played with. It must be something in the shaft. JMO, Doug
 
I agree with what your saying, I played for 14 years with nothing but a standard maple shaft, I never had any problem with any english, never, I did have trouble pocketing balls with extreme spin, I also lacked consistancy pocketing when I used anything but center ball.. Thus this is why you use Natural angles..

I havent changed my game or stroke, My Shaft has allowed me to stay within the pocket in those situations where I need English.. But not only that, Less force is required to move the cue ball, further enhancing my game, less speed is friendly to the pocket.. you know?


SPINDOKTOR


pooltchr said:
You may well see improvement with a different shaft...but it is due to you adjusting to the shaft, not due to the shaft changing your stroke. Maybe your stroke is more suited to a particular shaft.
The original question was are the new shafts causing players to lose their stroke. My answer was absolutely not. Without the stroke, I don't care what shaft you use, you will still struggle.
Great players will adjust to any shaft. Poor players will not get better just by changing shafts.
Improvement comes through hard work and persistance. There is no magic wand.
What was Efrin shooting with when he first burst onto the professional pool scene?
Steve
 
the new shafts aren't killing people's strokes. in actual fact they punish an off centre hit more than a standard shaft - the whole idea that they are more forgiving is a myth.

and fast lenny the whole idea behind them is to severely reduce the squirt on the cue ball when applying sidespin. not to apply more english. 'more english' will always be part and parcel of the marketing behind them it's inevitable but it's not true. you hit a ball with maximum sidespin with a 314 and a standard shaft with the same speed and there will be no discernable difference in the amount of spin.
 
Last edited:
stikapos said:
Yesterday, after weeks of hitting with a Deano and a smart shaft fitted cue, I took out an old, stiff hitting 5/16x14 ebony cue. Had to work like a dog to get the cue to do what I wanted it to do, nevermind the deflection. But with a few minutes, I adjusted and began hitting the cue well. Then I started thinking. With the new super shafts, you really never get any negative feedback regarding your stroke. With an older cue, say a TS or a SW, if you hit badly, the cue would practically stop what it was doing and beat you upside the head. So, by relying on "super shafts", are we really killing stroke ? I'm starting to wonder. Practice using something stiff and then use a super shaft ???

tim

This is quite an interesting thread. You ask a good question.
I was a soft finesse follow-through-stroke shooter for quite a while, and when I tried the Predator 314....I could not draw or follow with it, like I could with a regular McDermott shaft. And I can draw a ton. Most times the CB would just stop dead when using the 314. Now, I tend to hit the CB real hard because I like to use 3 or more rails to get shape on the next OB. I switched back to the 314, and I can get just as much CB action as I did in the past using a regular shaft. FYI: I have never been criticized about my stroke in a bad way.....except for the frequent....you stroked that too good. Which in context means, I missed the shot because I used too much stroke.

Just recently, I had a short business trip to Austin. I didn't take any of my cues, and I met up with a couple of buddies at Fast Eddies. They were showing me their new break/jump cues with phenolic tips. They let me shoot with their cues, and I opted to play with the break cue with phenolic tip because I wasn't getting any CB action on the slow cloth. I was shooting table length draw shots with it, and they were pissed that I was beating up on them with that type of cue. I had a very short shot (CB to OB distance) and I wanted to draw the CB. So, I jacked up on the CB like I would normally do, but I forgot I was playing with a B & J cue. I jumped over the OB, and I just about crapped my pants. I can't jump to save my life. I can masse like a champ, but jumps have always been my worst stroke. I think there was about 3 millimeters between the CB and OB, and for me, to jump over the OB....just blew me away. I am definitely going to get me a Break/Jump cue with the phenolic tip.

I think there are a lot of conditions that will determine the CB action using either a regular shaft or Low Deflection shaft.
Here are some of my thoughts about reasons for differing results:
Type of stroke
Stroke Power/Speed
Type of English (Back Hand English, or other types)
CB and OB cleanliness
Cloth (Humidity/Dryness in the air effects cloth)

But I can definitely tell you that the low deflection shaft does, in fact, reduce (practically eliminates) CB deflection. The reason I know this, is because when I first started using the 314, I missed almost every shot. That is when I realized that I had instinctively adjusted my aim on shots to account for the CB deflection. When I stop making that adjustment, I would pocket balls all day long.....especially since I couldn't use any english on the 314...at that time. Using dead center CB is very accurate.

I can play just as well with the low deflection or a regular shaft. The only determining factor seems to be with making the CB deflection adjustment.

I don't know about the in depth analysis stuff like the Mad Scientists that crunch numbers about shots and what not. Maybe they can create a science project and figure out if the factors I mentioned would have a significant effect.....and quantify how much of an effect.
 
Last edited:
mr8ball said:
I have had the same stroke for about 6 years now and i get a lot more action with my OB1 then any other shaft i have played with. It must be something in the shaft. JMO, Doug

If you want more action than an OB-1 gives, try this: have any regular shaft retapered to an 11 mm tip, with a 16 inch pro taper. Then put on an Elkmaster tip, play with it for 6 hours or so, including plenty of power stroke shots.

Get used to the action from this combo. Now, put that OB-1 on your cue and see if the action is the same, or more or less.

Give the 11 mm shaft a chance... you may be surprised at the difference between it and an OB-1.

Flex
 
okinawa77 said:
Just recently, I had a short business trip to Austin. I didn't take any of my cues, and I met up with a couple of buddies at Fast Eddies. They were showing me their new break/jump cues with phenolic tips. They let me shoot with their cues, and I opted to play with the break cue with phenolic tip because I wasn't getting any CB action on the slow cloth. I was shooting table length draw shots with it, and they were pissed that I was beating up on them with that type of cue. I had a very short shot (CB to OB distance) and I wanted to draw the CB. So, I jacked up on the CB like I would normally do, but I forgot I was playing with a B & J cue. I jumped over the OB, and I just about crapped my pants. I can't jump to save my life. I can masse like a champ, but jumps have always been my worst stroke. I think there was about 3 millimeters between the CB and OB, and for me, to jump over the OB....just blew me away. I am definitely going to get me a Break/Jump cue with the phenolic tip.
The one piece phenolic ferrule and tips on the J/Bs make it easy to jump,i just bought another one as im playing more tournaments and i seem to always make the hit when i jump,even a full ball jump thats close.I learned how to jump in like 5 minutes using the dart method first and then the other method,when i used J/Bs with a regular tip it was harder for me though.I think if you can masse the cue ball then you can jump also,its all about the pop i guess. :D
 
Stroke

I agree completely with Ribdoner. Fast cloth gives everybody a good stroke. The old cloth required a great stroke to go 3 rails around the table but today with the new fast cloth EVERYBODY has got a good stroke and its at least 50% easier to get around the table. Fast cloth made the game much easier more so than the low deflection shafts.
 
First, let me thank everyone for weighing in on this topic. I guess where I was going with it was, with a new super shaft, off center hits are not punished as much as with an older shaft. Which is why everyone tries to find the bottom of the cueball prior to shooting.....the cueball reacts much more true when striking it level and directly through the ball. Newer supershafts call for you to hit closer to the center of a ball, which on its own gets less deflection. But you can get away with murder there relating to how straight through the shot you are. I guess I was going down the road of practicing with a Hondo guitar, then going out on stage with a Paul Reed Smith. Same instrument, just stronger fingers.

Be well and have a good day,
tim
 
Back
Top