Argument/Forfeit at Predator World 14.1 Championship

[Barbara]

Well I do know Bob. I will credit him to be an honest person in matches. I can see him asking, "What did I do?", or "How did I foul?". And honestly asking this question to his opponent for an honest response.

Bob is a formidable player in 14.1. He is a yearly threat in Pete Sinkler's invitational 14.1 tournament. They don't have a table ref for each match at that tounament and I've never heard of any scuffles about fouls there. Everybody's on their own.

Barbara

 

[SUPERSTAR]

the fact that Bob (whom I do not know) did not remain in the game and just threw his hands up in the air is the part that I do not agree with. if you are playing at that level (much less paying $500 to play plus expenses), even as heart breaking as it may be, you should conduct yourself accordingly (this from an emotional player). if he was unfairly sharked, that stinks something terrible, but he should have sat down and waited it out - he could have had a chance to finish it out and beat him anyway which would have been the best justice of it all - if it was a sharking technique, it worked.

9balllvr

Well, i have known him for 18 years, and this is the first time i have ever heard of an incident like this with him, so i would imagine that the whole situation must have pissed him off immensely for it to happen.

I can't see him getting mad unless there was some sarcasm and choice words thrown into the mix after the foul was called, and words were exchanged.

It reminds me of an incident a while ago at the superbilliardsexpo.
Allen Hopkins was having one of, if not, the very first skins game challenge which Bob Maidhof was a part of.
Well, during that event, someone else committed a blatantly obvious foul which EVERYONE saw.

Once the player was told they had fouled, they didn't concede the fact that they had fouled, and clung to the rack that they had won, and the money that came with that.

So then GINKY, who was also participating in the event and who is someone who i feel is one of the few EPITOMEs of what good sportsmanship is all about, was visibly disgusted as he was one of the guys who saw the foul when it happened. (It was a double hit cueball and BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that the guy knew)
GINKY quit the challenge, and forfeited his prize money and walked out saying something to the effect that they were all invited out there to have a good time and take shot at the title, and then this guy had to go do THAT.

He quit the challenge disgusted at the fact that this guy went and tarnished the whole integrity of the event by doing what he did, and GINKY didn't want to be a part of it any further if that was the case.

I had to hand it to him. It took a lot of balls to do what he did and be true to himself and his ideals.
My hats off to him as that day, he became top shelf in my book.

So in regards to the integrity of someone quitting, it can happen to anyone if they feel it is warranted.

 

[9balllvr]

So in regards to the integrity of someone quitting, it can happen to anyone if they feel it is warranted.

I do agree with you on this - I suppose I have the attitude in that if someone was in the wrong (or attempting to shark another), it would come back to bite him in the long run (and Bob could have had a chance to salvage the match).

9balllvr

 

[jay helfert]

I wrote an article full of suggestions last year. There were lots of comments last year. I'm very glad to see the event taking place, and I'm spending something like $1800 to see the last two days, but it really would be nice if some of the suggestions here and elsewhere were implemented next year.

I've got a great suggestion. Let Bob Jewett train a staff of volunter referees, and act as the Head Referee.

You don't have to thank me Bob. Anything for a friend.

Since it was my idea, I will chip in to pay for Bob's expenses if Randy hires him. Anybody got change for a five?

 

[Barbara]

I've got a great suggestion. Let Bob Jewett train a staff of volunter referees, and act as the Head Referee.

You don't have to thank me Bob. Anything for a friend.

Since it was my idea, I will chip in to pay for Bob's expenses if Randy hires him. Anybody got change for a five?

Jay,

I've never met you, but let me relate to you that I have been on the SBE staff for over a decade.

You can't pay the staff enough for what they do. They do this out of love for the sport.

Barbara

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,

I've never met you, but let me relate to you that I have been on the SBE staff for over a decade.

You can't pay the staff enough for what they do. They do this out of love for the sport.

Barbara

And maybe that's my point. It seems like they should be able to get a competent group of referees to work a prestigious event like this in the hotbed of Straight Pool.

 

[Russ Chewning]

I do agree with you on this - I suppose I have the attitude in that if someone was in the wrong (or attempting to shark another), it would come back to bite him in the long run (and Bob could have had a chance to salvage the match).

9balllvr

Hmm.. I see a lot of people who talk about people getting what they deserve. But, most of us realize that does not always happen. Sometimes, bad people get filthy rich, make lots of dirty with college coeds until they are 80, and die with a smile on their face.

Since there is no real Heaven or Hell, this person got one short life, and rode the crap out of that life and had a ball, while the rest of us smily smugly about how "What goes around comes around..."

Not know that this truth is more like "not necessarily".

Russ

 

[Flex]

I do agree with you on this - I suppose I have the attitude in that if someone was in the wrong (or attempting to shark another), it would come back to bite him in the long run (and Bob could have had a chance to salvage the match).

9balllvr

We've all heard the saying that crime doesn't pay, but criminals obviously don't agree with that statement.

Some time ago I read that less than 3% of those charged with a crime actually are convicted and serve time. With numbers like those, it's no surprise that criminal activity is as rampant as it is.

As for sharking, I know some sharks who pull all sorts of stuff, and do so frequently. I know players who don't hesitate to intentionally make bad calls, and also blatantly cheat.

For some people, integrity simply isn't a factor.

Flex

 

[BANKONIT]

No Ref. No Foul.

 

[allprobilliards]

I think more realistically you need more than 10-14 refs/scorekeepers.

8 tables= 8 refs
plus they can only do one session, which is about 6 hours.

so you need 16 different refs per day.
8 refs x $10 an hour= $80 x 12 hours = $960
x 5 days= almost $5000

From what I was told, the promoters of the event lost money last year and to ask them to spend another $5k would be hard.

I think the people here who say then don't do the event are really foolish for saying that, and the real people who love straight pool understand that this event is a great thing to have and vital in keeping 14.1 alive

I for one, am very appreciative of being able to see this event come to life.

I hope Dragon Promotions, Randy Goldwater and Joel Schapiro and all the sponsors keep this event alive!

 

[hippiepool]

in amateur pool , a.p.a. , v.n.e.a. , and as far as I know b.c.a. , when a ref is not watching a hit , it goes to the shooter ..how in the freak can they not have rules in the " world 14.1 championships "...???

 

[NYC cue dude]

I think more realistically you need more than 10-14 refs/scorekeepers.

8 tables= 8 refs
plus they can only do one session, which is about 6 hours.



I hope Dragon Promotions, Randy Goldwater and Joel Schapiro and all the sponsors keep this event alive!

With the money lost last year, and the money that will surely be lost this year, despite a lot more money donated, I wouldn't bet on it. The round robin phase has no refs. We asked around for volunteers, and the response was so pathetic, we didn't pursue it. I didn't see what happened, but I'll ask both stevie and bob what happened tommorow morning.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[chilli66]

With the money lost last year, and the money that will surely be lost this year, despite a lot more money donated, I wouldn't bet on it. The round robin phase has no refs. We asked around for volunteers, and the response was so pathetic, we didn't pursue it. I didn't see what happened, but I'll ask both stevie and bob what happened tommorow morning.

It's sad that when it comes to events like this there are never enough people who would be willing to just help out & get involved. They'd rather sit on their behinds & watch, then have their say when it's all over. I'll be honest, I hate reffing but I've done it so many times just to help things go smoothly in the past. Besides, you get the best view of the game!

I hope this one incident doesn't overshadow the event too much. I've never played 14.1 but it's a game I intend to get into & I'm enjoying reading all I can this week!

NYC Cue Dude, I'm very sorry to hear of your loss & wish you all the best. I've been in a similar situation myself (twice) & can sympathise. I hope tomorrow brings some good results your way.

 

[John Barton]

They are not playing by BCA rules. and BCA rules are not internationally recognized or used.

Actually, if I remember correctly from my ref training (which I had to do in order to even play in the German leagues) the all ball foul rule IS only in effect WHEN a referee is present at the table. The opponent cannot call a foul for touching a ball when there is not a ref presiding over the game under WPA rules. The WPA rules are based on the BCA rules by the way.

I haven't read all the responses so this may have been covered and I can stand to be corrected if I am in error.

What I really CANNOT understand is HOW you can have a tournament billed as a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and NOT have a ref at EVERY SINGLE match watching over EVERY SINGLE SHOT.

Sorry but we had that at regional championships in Germany and all of America with all it's power can't muster up enough qualified people to ref these matches???????

I have seen the exact same crap happen at the US Open where there is often not a ref anywhere on the floor and the tournament director is out of the arena booking matches.

How is it that these "prestigious" tournaments end up with no refs? Can anyone imagine Wimbledon or the Masters with no refs.How about any serious sporting competition? It's no wonder that people don't take pool seriously as a sport in the USA.

 

[9balllvr]

Hmm.. I see a lot of people who talk about people getting what they deserve. But, most of us realize that does not always happen. Sometimes, bad people get filthy rich, make lots of dirty with college coeds until they are 80, and die with a smile on their face.

Since there is no real Heaven or Hell, this person got one short life, and rode the crap out of that life and had a ball, while the rest of us smily smugly about how "What goes around comes around..."

Not know that this truth is more like "not necessarily".

Russ

Russ,
point taken, but you do not have to see someone "getting theirs" to know their life is not all it appears to be.

9balllvr

 

[9balllvr]

For some people, integrity simply isn't a factor. Flex

sad, but true.

 

[9balllvr]

Your'e probably referring to me. Don't get me wrong. I'm VERY glad that 14.1 is making a comeback, and very appreciative of the guys doing it. I guess my feeling is, if you are going to hold a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, do it right. Get what you need for it. I just kind of find it hard to believe that with all the multi-millionair backers out there, that they can't find a way to come up with $5,000 for refs.

I have no part in this event, but I would suggest that your idea of "doing it right" may not be someone elses idea of the same. The people that put these special events together put their own money into it and more than that, back breaking time with little or no return other than for the love of the game (just like Barbara mentioned about the SBE time spent previously). The fact that they put it together at all gives them the right to say what is right for the tournament.

With that said, I think my lack of sleep is catching up to me and I should sign off for the evening

9balllvr

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I was talking to some people in the pool room, and found out, that it wasn't a shirt touching ball foul that Stevie called.

Apparently, Stevie said that Bob hit a ball with his cue.

 

[bizboy313]

I talked to Bob right after the match on the phone and he told me that Stevie was calling him a cheater and telling Bob that he needed to cheat to win. All this after a gentleman spectator that was watching the match told both parties that Bob had not fouled. I've had this verified by someone who was actually at the tournament abd caught the end of the argument. Bob forfeited his match as if to say,"If this match win means so much to you that you have to shark and try to steal the match then fine you win." Bob was upset that his integrity was challenged. He said to me that in the over 40 years he has played pool, he has never been accused of cheating or being dishonest at the table. Its an unfortunate incident but I can see why he would forfeit and stand up for his morals.