Arizona Tournament Ideas?!?!?

stuckart

stuckart

Paint Dry Watching Champ
Silver Member
First off, I'd like to state that this is not the thread to get into a Pro vs. Con argument about the AZ Rating's and/or Committee.

I would like to know from the Higher Rated players, or the ones that are against the Arizona Ratings, there opinion on what one establishment could put together as a weekly/biweekly tourney that would satisfy everyone. When I say everyone I mean, The 10's, The Bar, The 6's and 7's and everyone in between. Also, which night(s) of the week could we maximize the draw of persons every week.

To Satisfy the 10's, I imagine larger payouts and harder ways for 6's and 7's to get lucky on them would work. Anything else?

To Satisfy the 6's and 7's, the trade off of cheaper entry to play better players.

For the Bar, Get 20-30 players in every tourney, make some money through either quarters or food/beverage.

The bar would add some money depending on how we do it.

FYI, this would be for "The Sets" in Tempe on Southern and Mill Ave. They have 14 bar boxes and 4 gold crowns. I run the pool operations over there now and want to see what we can do to make more people happy.

I have a few ideas, but I want to see what you guys come up with first. Remember let's make it fun and fair for EVERYONE!
 
stuckart said:
First off, I'd like to state that this is not the thread to get into a Pro vs. Con argument about the AZ Rating's and/or Committee.

I would like to know from the Higher Rated players, or the ones that are against the Arizona Ratings, there opinion on what one establishment could put together as a weekly/biweekly tourney that would satisfy everyone. When I say everyone I mean, The 10's, The Bar, The 6's and 7's and everyone in between. Also, which night(s) of the week could we maximize the draw of persons every week.

To Satisfy the 10's, I imagine larger payouts and harder ways for 6's and 7's to get lucky on them would work. Anything else?

To Satisfy the 6's and 7's, the trade off of cheaper entry to play better players.

For the Bar, Get 20-30 players in every tourney, make some money through either quarters or food/beverage.

The bar would add some money depending on how we do it.

FYI, this would be for "The Sets" in Tempe on Southern and Mill Ave. They have 14 bar boxes and 4 gold crowns. I run the pool operations over there now and want to see what we can do to make more people happy.

I have a few ideas, but I want to see what you guys come up with first. Remember let's make it fun and fair for EVERYONE!
Click to expand...


A: Get rid of the rating system all together.
B: Hold regional Tour Events for both Open and Amateur Players.
C: JUST DO IT !

Mj
 
I have an idea

In Sacramento CA they offset the entry fee




5's and 6's pay 5.00 entry fee
7's and 8's pay 6.00
9's pays 7.00
10's pay 10.00
10-1's pay 12.00
10-2's pay 15.00




Something like that
It was always a race to 4 single elm because they had some many players

Thanks
 
I think you know my thoughts on this...I think you said they used to do something similar in WI.

Since you already have a laptop...(liquid proof from what I hear)...You could easily track the prior event results and do a adjustable A B C graduated entry fee. I talked to Kristi about doing this at Alexanders before they announced the closure...

Basically you pay a higher or lower entry fee based on your prior entry performance... If you win you get bumped up to the A level (do not pass go do not collect $200)...If you cash you get bumped 1 level...If you continually don't cash...you drop a level.....I think we evern discussed in the event of the bar adding a set amount per player that if you have certain players that NEVER cash...eventually they will be able to play in the event for free...(but the house still adds the added money per player)...The tournament "players" win due to more added money...The house wins because the complete bangers that have no chance of cashing can enter a FREE tournament...(until they cash they get a free learning experience)

No ratings to worry about.
No loss of players to worry about (due to getting raised)
No worry if a road player wants to come in and take a crack at stealing the money.

I think everyone I spoke with about this thought the system was fair and Kristi and I discussed doing a double column weekly spreadsheet that shows the prior entry paid and prior finish results...A player could techically not play for 3 months and you could do a quick "find" in excel and see when they last played what they paid and how they finished.

I even asked other "A" level players (or players that I expect would cash) if they had a problem paying a $15 entry against a C rated player that only has to pay a $5 entry...(but both players race to 4)...no one seemed to have a problem with that.

I did not ask any players that (I thought) would have NO chance of cashing if they would be willing to play in a FREE entry tournament if they new they were going to have to possibly play Scott Frost straight up in a race to 4

I would ask CocoBoy...but I suspect he would have some excuse like too much Go Go juice to get there....or some other goofy response....I would suggest descretly taking a poll from some of the people you thing would have little to no chance of cashing if they would attend...

I can give you this bangers reply of yes I would play......but I might be just above qualifying level of a banger....:rolleyes: ;)

The only real challenge that was brought up was the "how do you advertise it"
 
BRKNRUN said:
I think you know my thoughts on this...I think you said they used to do something similar in WI.

Since you already have a laptop...(liquid proof from what I hear)...You could easily track the prior event results and do a adjustable A B C graduated entry fee. I talked to Kristi about doing this at Alexanders before they announced the closure...

Basically you pay a higher or lower entry fee based on your prior entry performance... If you win you get bumped up to the A level (do not pass go do not collect $200)...If you cash you get bumped 1 level...If you continually don't cash...you drop a level.....I think we evern discussed in the event of the bar adding a set amount per player that if you have certain players that NEVER cash...eventually they will be able to play in the event for free...(but the house still adds the added money per player)...The tournament "players" win due to more added money...The house wins because the complete bangers that have no chance of cashing can enter a FREE tournament...(until they cash they get a free learning experience)

No ratings to worry about.
No loss of players to worry about (due to getting raised)
No worry if a road player wants to come in and take a crack at stealing the money.

I think everyone I spoke with about this thought the system was fair and Kristi and I discussed doing a double column weekly spreadsheet that shows the prior entry paid and prior finish results...A player could techically not play for 3 months and you could do a quick "find" in excel and see when they last played what they paid and how they finished.

I even asked other "A" level players (or players that I expect would cash) if they had a problem paying a $15 entry against a C rated player that only has to pay a $5 entry...(but both players race to 4)...no one seemed to have a problem with that.

I did not ask any players that (I thought) would have NO chance of cashing if they would be willing to play in a FREE entry tournament if they new they were going to have to possibly play Scott Frost straight up in a race to 4

I would ask CocoBoy...but I suspect he would have some excuse like too much Go Go juice to get there....or some other goofy response....I would suggest descretly taking a poll from some of the people you thing would have little to no chance of cashing if they would attend...

I can give you this bangers reply of yes I would play......but I might be just above qualifying level of a banger....:rolleyes: ;)

The only real challenge that was brought up was the "how do you advertise it"
Click to expand...
Yes I would attend and more experiments need to be done on the laptop. So far all we know is that it is diet coke proof. Other liquids need to be tested :).

BVal<------Not likely to cash
 
Would you have an objection for the Higher rated players giving up a game or 2. Just not 4.

ie.

6's and 7's race to 4
8's and 9's race to 5
10's + race to 6

And have the stepped entry fees?
 
The best way to draw people to a tourney is added prize money.If your going to use the AZ handicapping then thats fine but i would make it a called handicapped ball instead of wild and make the races longer to help out the better player.I like the system in NY,the most you can get spotted is the 5 ball and of course games on the wire,no spots like the 5 or 6 out,its still competitive and fair.Lets say for instance if someone is rated a 10-2 and the other guy is a 7,that mean he would get the 5 ball and a game spot,if he is a 6 he would get the 5 and 2 games.I think the system that i have seen at the room i played at in NY is the best and fairest i have seen where any player there has a shot to win.This is thanks to Dave Pinkston who as a player understands handicapping to make things fair. :)
 
What do you think of this scenario (Scenario #1)

6's and 7's pay $5
8's pay $10
9's pay $15
10's + pay $20

6's and 7's race to 4
8's and 9's race to 5
10's race to 6

Scenario #1:
5 players - 10's sign-up at $20 each 5 * 20 = 100
5 players - 9's sign-up at $15 each 5 * 15 = 75
5 players - 8's sign-up at $10 each 5 * 10 = 50
5 players - 7's sign-up at $5 each 5 * 5 = 25
5 players - 6's sign-up at $5 each 5 * 5 = 25

Total Money from players $275 for 25 person tourney. Bar puts in $5/person = $125.

Total purse $400
if payout 4 places
1st) $200
2nd) $120
3rd) $60
4th) $20

if 6 places
1st) $160
2nd) $100
3rd) $60
4th) $40
5th) $20
6th) $20
 
vs Scenario #2

Scenario #2:
5 - 10's sign-up at $15 each
5 - 9's sign-up at $10 each
5 - 8's sign-up at $10 each
5 - 7's sign-up at $5 each
5 - 6's sign-up at $5 each

Total Money from players $225 for 25 person tourney. Bar puts in $5/person = $125.

Total purse $350
if payout 4 places
1st) $175
2nd) $120
3rd) $50
4th) $20

if 6 places
1st) $160
2nd) $100
3rd) $60
4th) $40
5th) $20
6th) $20
 
tourney

What do you think of this scenario (Scenario #1)

6's and 7's pay $5
8's pay $10
9's pay $15
10's + pay $20

6's and 7's race to 4
8's and 9's race to 5
10's race to 6

Scenario #1:
5 players - 10's sign-up at $20 each 5 * 20 = 100
5 players - 9's sign-up at $15 each 5 * 15 = 75
5 players - 8's sign-up at $10 each 5 * 10 = 50
5 players - 7's sign-up at $5 each 5 * 5 = 25
5 players - 6's sign-up at $5 each 5 * 5 = 25

Total Money from players $275 for 25 person tourney. Bar puts in $5/person = $125.

Total purse $400
if payout 4 places
1st) $200
2nd) $120
3rd) $60
4th) $20

if 6 places
1st) $160
2nd) $100
3rd) $60
4th) $40
5th) $20
6th) $20

great idea I am a 7 and I would love to play
 
Last edited:
I don't think the higher rated players will want to pay more & give up weight......(I won't like it for very long)

The whole concept I proposed is so that novice players will learn how to win by "playing better"rather than by firing the 9 every chance they get in hopes to win 3 games before the other player wins the required additional amount.

That type of stuff sends me toward boiling point.....Like what happend Monday...I make a mistake and get out of line on the very first game...(very easy to do on those lighting fast tables)...and miss a semi difficult shot...My opponent craps in a 4 ball out...(two of the shots going multiple rails)...proceeds to break makes a ball and then misses but hooks me....I make the hit but it leaves the OB in position to be fired toward the end of the table the 9-ball is.. My opponent (of course) fires the OB toward the 9 sending the 9-ball three rail into a side pocket....

He then proceeded to look at me land gave me a look like..."I ment to do that"...like he had accomplished some great shot...Now I am faced with haiving to win 6 games before he wins 1....(on tables that make you feel like you are playing on a countertop)


The problem with Phoenix is that it seems like everyone wants to protect the bangers from actually learning how to play pool...I think they would be better served to be forced to learn how to play better...I think everyong will be better off in the long run..

Under the system I propose....If they really truely suck so bad that they NEVER get better and cash...they will be playing on a FREE entry anyway...How much more protection do they need.

I would be first in line to enter a $5.00 or FREE tournament to get my ars handed to me by Efren Reyes.
 
Under the system I propose....If they really truely suck so bad that they NEVER get better and cash...they will be playing on a FREE entry anyway...How much more protection do they need.

I would be first in line to enter a $5.00 or FREE tournament to get my ars handed to me by Efren Reyes.

YOU HAVE A GOOD IDEA WHAT IF YOU HAD A CHOICE LIKE SIDE POTS YOU JUST CHOOSE NOT TO PAY SO NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU DO YOU DON`T GET ANY MONEY
 
MikeJanis said:
A: Get rid of the rating system all together.
Click to expand...

I think that will not happen.
nailbiting.gif
 
Would the higher rated players pay more and give (half) the weight they usually would if it was call 9 ball. Meaning you'd have to call the 9 in the certain pocket to count, otherwise it gets spotted.

A race to 4 games for a 6 or 7 would be pretty balanced from getting lucky a few times.

9 on the break would still count though.

Any 10's want to chime in?
 
BRKNRUN said:
I don't think the higher rated players will want to pay more & give up weight......(I won't like it for very long)

The whole concept I proposed is so that novice players will learn how to win by "playing better"rather than by firing the 9 every chance they get in hopes to win 3 games before the other player wins the required additional amount.

That type of stuff sends me toward boiling point.....Like what happend Monday...I make a mistake and get out of line on the very first game...(very easy to do on those lighting fast tables)...and miss a semi difficult shot...My opponent craps in a 4 ball out...(two of the shots going multiple rails)...proceeds to break makes a ball and then misses but hooks me....I make the hit but it leaves the OB in position to be fired toward the end of the table the 9-ball is.. My opponent (of course) fires the OB toward the 9 sending the 9-ball three rail into a side pocket....

He then proceeded to look at me land gave me a look like..."I ment to do that"...like he had accomplished some great shot...Now I am faced with haiving to win 6 games before he wins 1....(on tables that make you feel like you are playing on a countertop)
Click to expand...

The only way to find out if something work is to test it.
nailbiting.gif


Scenario #1, and Scenario #2 both have merit, but the players will tell you what they like by the number who show up at your events.


The problem with Phoenix is that it seems like everyone wants to protect the bangers from actually learning how to play pool...I think they would be better served to be forced to learn how to play better...I think everyong will be better off in the long run..
Click to expand...

Who is the "everyone" that is protecting the lesser rated players, and please explain how they are protecting them.

Plus one last question for BRKNRUN what are you personally doing to help the "bangers" as you call them elevate their game.?

I know when Don Rose was the House Pro at Click's he gave FREE Clinics on wednesday night to do just that. Don Rose helped many of the lesser players get better.


thumbsup.gif
To Don for his efforts.
 
You're handicapping it twice with that particular scenario. You're handicapping the money and you're handicapping the race. One or the other might go over alright, but double-handicapping will surely draw moans from some participants.


stuckart said:
What do you think of this scenario (Scenario #1)

6's and 7's pay $5
8's pay $10
9's pay $15
10's + pay $20

6's and 7's race to 4
8's and 9's race to 5
10's race to 6

Scenario #1:
5 players - 10's sign-up at $20 each 5 * 20 = 100
5 players - 9's sign-up at $15 each 5 * 15 = 75
5 players - 8's sign-up at $10 each 5 * 10 = 50
5 players - 7's sign-up at $5 each 5 * 5 = 25
5 players - 6's sign-up at $5 each 5 * 5 = 25

Total Money from players $275 for 25 person tourney. Bar puts in $5/person = $125.

Total purse $400
if payout 4 places
1st) $200
2nd) $120
3rd) $60
4th) $20

if 6 places
1st) $160
2nd) $100
3rd) $60
4th) $40
5th) $20
6th) $20
Click to expand...
 
Jimmy M. said:
You're handicapping it twice with that particular scenario. You're handicapping the money and you're handicapping the race. One or the other might go over alright, but double-handicapping will surely draw moans from some participants.
Click to expand...
Personally I would rather pay a little less and straight race. That way I can get a better guage of my game and see if I am getting better or not. I played in lots of the all-arounds last year and never once did I get to play one of the AZ big guns (Jimmy, Mitch, Dennis, Mike, Scott) I was willing and was paying $50 for a chance to get run over then racing even and would be more than willing to pay $15 to their $25 or however it would work. imo.

BVal
 
BRKNRUN said:
I don't think the higher rated players will want to pay more & give up weight
Click to expand...

So you're saying that you made a mistake and lost? Who'd have thought?

I'm still trying to figure why this whole city has to use these ratings. I would personally like to see more open tournaments. In fact, how about just one open tournament. I think we need open tournaments with capped ratings. 6 and under, 9 and under, open. No handicaps.

I think you need to fix the tables at the sets before trying to get anything serious going. You ran that last tournament well (though it lasted awhile) so you have my support. We just need to start getting away from these handicaps. They don't help the lower player's game.

And for you 10's out there, don't complain when you miss a shot and lose the set. Now you know how the rest of us feel when we play you.
 
Drew said:
So you're saying that you made a mistake and lost? Who'd have thought?

I'm still trying to figure why this whole city has to use these ratings. I would personally like to see more open tournaments. In fact, how about just one open tournament. I think we need open tournaments with capped ratings. 6 and under, 9 and under, open. No handicaps.

I think you need to fix the tables at the sets before trying to get anything serious going. You ran that last tournament well (though it lasted awhile) so you have my support. We just need to start getting away from these handicaps. They don't help the lower player's game.

And for you 10's out there, don't complain when you miss a shot and lose the set. Now you know how the rest of us feel when we play you.
Click to expand...


On the contrary...I don't mind getting beat one bit...If someone runs me over...they run me over.....Frankly...I have never claimed to be Efren Reyes...I am going to make a mistake......But it becomes a little rediculous when 1 mistake puts the other guy on the hill and you have to then win 6 games in a row...(of 9-ball no less....You know they are going to saddle up the rest of the set)

What drives me nuts is the player the craps in 3 9-balls during a set and wins by a score of them 3 and me 5.......and they look at me like they just drilled my nuts with some kind of skill.

A majority of the time I will shake thier hand and say good luck and they will never know the difference......... inside I am asking myself why I am subjecting myself to this type of tournament......

I would much rather take my shot at playing Scott or Jimmy striaght up than subjecting myself to a loss where I end up winning more games than my opponent...

I still can't understand how people think they actually won....When I was an up and comming player...If I won by a handicapped score and my opponent had more games won than I did....I NEVER acted like I just drilled their nuts......(And yes...I have actually overheard someone go over and tell his friends "I just drilled that 9s nuts")

I don't mind getting beat...and I don't mind losing to a spot...But the above kind of stuff does not make make any sense to me...
 
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