They do have carom balls with the measle spots.
The carom ball is bigger and heavier.
Artistic shots billiards.. this time violating the laws of physics
- Thread starter MartinvanRhee
- Start date
They do have carom balls with the measle spots.
The carom ball is bigger and heavier.
The desire to see the shot done with the measles ball is so that we can see what is going on with the spin at the end of the shots.
So, I noticed on the first and third shots, where the physics seems to be defied, that the cue ball hits the side rail first at close to the same distance from the end rail (between the first and second diamonds) which may(?) throw off the axis of rotation to reverse the spin when it finally hits the end rail?
As mentioned previously, the timing of where it hits the side rail would need to be adjusted to find the sweet spot where the axis of rotation would have time to switch 180 degrees.
Just a theory, without any proof to back it up.
As mentioned previously, the timing of where it hits the side rail would need to be adjusted to find the sweet spot where the axis of rotation would have time to switch 180 degrees.
Just a theory, without any proof to back it up.
OH Snap, I forgot about that. :speechless:
I think Bob has it figured out (per an e-mail he sent me). The "trick" would be clear if the CB had any marks on it at all (and/or if the video were higher resolution and more clear). I'll let Bob disclose the answer after others try to figure it out.
Regards,
Dave
Hint: If you witnessed the shot "setup" and execution in person, the "trick" would be perfectly clear.
Last edited:
Certainly not an expert on the physics here. As I looked at the shots in a lot of detail, the last three just seemed cool, but didn't seem to violate any physics. The first one is odd, however, and most simply and clearly demonstrates what this thread is exploring.
Clearly, the guy has to be hitting right hand English to make the ball take off to the right. As ball completes the initial curve, it is picking up natural roll. When it hits the first rail, you would think that in the extreme, it would come off that rail with crazy running english and spin off to the other side rail after it hits the second rail. At best, all english would be lost and it would be natural straight roll and just come off that second rail as normal (which would be toward the center of the table lets say).
But no, it comes off which such left hand spin that it jumps left. So the question boils down to how did that ball start with right hand english and end up with left hand english? Unless there is an explanation that starts with "the guy hit with left hand english from the get go", then something odd must be going on. If he started with left hand English, then I don't think there is any reasonable way that the ball took off so forcefully to the right.
It would be nice if the guy hitting the shots would chime in. He's become mysteriously silent after the initial "that's cool".
But I've been thinking about a whole new area of pool that I have never seen singled out purposefully, and that is "trick" shots. . . like in "magic" billiard shots. Magic is about deceiving the viewer with slight of hand or other techniques which fool the brain into thinking it is seeing something it really is not. Typically, trick shots in pool boil down to a really cool shot that does something extraordinary (like a masse for example, or pocketing multiple balls in one shot). But has there ever been someone who has tried to make trick shots that really are more like magic? The weighted cue ball would be one obvious example, but those are so obvious that people figure that out pretty quick.
For example let's just assume that the way shot 1 got pulled off is that the bottom rail is really not at a 90 degree angle to the side rail. The angle has been shortened to the point that the cue ball actually bounces back towards the side rail without needing spin or anything like that (maybe at 80 or 70 degrees).
People would call that cheating, but how cool to construct a shot where you look at it, you know it can't be true, someone clearly jiggered the equipment or something, but they did it so cleverly that you just can't figure out how.
This first shot seems to fit into that category. Unless you can explain how right hand english turns into left, then there must be something else going on. Because we all know there is no such thing as magic, right?!?!?
Clearly, the guy has to be hitting right hand English to make the ball take off to the right. As ball completes the initial curve, it is picking up natural roll. When it hits the first rail, you would think that in the extreme, it would come off that rail with crazy running english and spin off to the other side rail after it hits the second rail. At best, all english would be lost and it would be natural straight roll and just come off that second rail as normal (which would be toward the center of the table lets say).
But no, it comes off which such left hand spin that it jumps left. So the question boils down to how did that ball start with right hand english and end up with left hand english? Unless there is an explanation that starts with "the guy hit with left hand english from the get go", then something odd must be going on. If he started with left hand English, then I don't think there is any reasonable way that the ball took off so forcefully to the right.
It would be nice if the guy hitting the shots would chime in. He's become mysteriously silent after the initial "that's cool".
But I've been thinking about a whole new area of pool that I have never seen singled out purposefully, and that is "trick" shots. . . like in "magic" billiard shots. Magic is about deceiving the viewer with slight of hand or other techniques which fool the brain into thinking it is seeing something it really is not. Typically, trick shots in pool boil down to a really cool shot that does something extraordinary (like a masse for example, or pocketing multiple balls in one shot). But has there ever been someone who has tried to make trick shots that really are more like magic? The weighted cue ball would be one obvious example, but those are so obvious that people figure that out pretty quick.
For example let's just assume that the way shot 1 got pulled off is that the bottom rail is really not at a 90 degree angle to the side rail. The angle has been shortened to the point that the cue ball actually bounces back towards the side rail without needing spin or anything like that (maybe at 80 or 70 degrees).
People would call that cheating, but how cool to construct a shot where you look at it, you know it can't be true, someone clearly jiggered the equipment or something, but they did it so cleverly that you just can't figure out how.
This first shot seems to fit into that category. Unless you can explain how right hand english turns into left, then there must be something else going on. Because we all know there is no such thing as magic, right?!?!?
What a tease!
The only thing I don't like about that explanation is the cue ball initially travels straight along the short rail. If draw were the primary force at work, wouldn't the ball basically go straight backwards? If the cue ball initially went towards the far rail more (from the shooter), I could see that explanation more. That is, I think it would run into the blocks.
Can you at least let us know if there was some trickery involved, or we just weren't clever enough to figure out the shot? That is, was it executed in a normal fashion (including the normal slick balls, cloth, rails, etc. that go along with these shots).
If Bob is right (he wants to test it on his own first), everything about the equipment is legitimate. But there is still a "trick" at play.
That's all you'll get from me until Bob tests and discloses his idea,
Dave
Wax the ball?
I have only viewed it quickly on my phone.
I cannot say it Martin used trickery, I wasn't here.
....However the shot can be performed exactly as is without any form of trickery.
I believe Martin used his skills to perform this.
To clarify I mean he is using standard reckonised equipment.
I will make not comment about polish or the setting of the table heater.
Last edited:
Another $2000 challenge? :thumbup:
Nope. If Bob is right, and if you know the trick, the shot is not that difficult ... assuming you have good masse shot skills.
Regards,
Dave
Bingo!
Again, Bob thought of it first, and we haven't tested it ourselves yet, so it is still just a "theory," but it does make pool-physics sense.
Nice video and nice thread!
Regards,
Dave
At first I thought that was just meant as a joke, like winding it up. But yeah, spinning the ball first would make sense. Also, it appears that a couple of the shots have the ball settling into place in the beginning, due to him not spinning perfectly around a vertical axis. Of course, that also could be a trick of the video compression.