At what point is smoking bad for business?

Saturated Fats

Saturated Fats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just left Ohio where smoking has been banned since 2006. I'm now in Florida where smoking is still allowed in bars (which of course includes pool rooms).

In 1965, the percentage of US adults that smoked was about 42%. By 2012, it had come down to about 18%:

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...about-smoking-tobacco-and-health-how-many-use

That means that today about 4 out of 5 people do not smoke and presumably don't want to be in businesses where smoke is prevalent. So are we at the point where smoke is keeping more people out of pool rooms than if smoking is banned?

If 18% is still not low enough, at what point is it bad business to allow smoking in pool rooms?
 
The numbers you're using are based on total population of the country.
For them to valid here, everyone in the country would have to be a pool player; they're not.
Get your percentages from the group of people that play. I'm sure they'll be quite different.

I'm A CM and I used to go to some of the major tourneys as a vendor. I'd have to go outside to smoke.
I'm no longer interested in being treated like a 2nd class citizen therefore I no longer go to tourneys.

KJ
 
KJ Cues said:
The numbers you're using are based on total population of the country.
For them to valid here, everyone in the country would have to be a pool player; they're not.
Get your percentages from the group of people that play. I'm sure they'll be quite different.

I'm A CM and I used to go to some of the major tourneys as a vendor. I'd have to go outside to smoke.
I'm no longer interested in being treated like a 2nd class citizen therefore I no longer go to tourneys.

KJ
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What's a CM?

You may be right about getting different percentages for the general population, but isn't that the point - to be more inclusive in order to build your pool room business?
 
I'm a cigar smoker. If I were to open a pool hall or pool intensive bar today, my business decision would be to make it non smoking. Now that is rather irrelevant because if I were making a sound business decision, a pool related business wouldn't be where I'd invest my money.
 
KJ Cues said:
I'm no longer interested in being treated like a 2nd class citizen therefore I no longer go to tourneys.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but what a stupid statement. Asking someone to go outside to take part in an activity that is both annoying and harmful to the health of those around them is not treating you like a second-class citizen. It's simply forcing you to be decent to those around you by not subjecting them to your pollution of the air they breathe. Same way if someone was walking around with a loud boom box blaring at a tourney, guessing they'd be asked to leave, too, for subjecting everyone around them to their noise.

I'm very thankful I live in a smoke free state. I was a smoker once and even then I was for the ban. I used to go outside to smoke, it wasn't such a hardship. Now that I don't smoke I would never frequent a smoking establishment, couldn't stand it.
 
I fully recognize that smoking is a personal choice. I only smoke casually, when I play Pool. I learned to play Pool in the years between 1958 & 1974. Then I quit playing Pool & subsequently quit smoking. When I started playing Pool again in 2000, I also bought a pack of Camels.

I live in the Tulsa area & we have some good Pool Rooms. One of the upscale rooms went away because of a Smoking Ban & then finally suffered bankruptcy.

Anecdote; when the Casino Frenzy began, the action players went away & they too went bankrupt.

In the State of Kansas, you can't smoke in a public area, except in the casinos, which the State owns. Go figure. The government always rule in it's favor, when money is involved.

Smoking & No Smoking will never find a compromise (see exception below), so one faction will have their way. I'm afraid that in a democratic society, the Non-Smokers will rule the roost.

The Exception we have in some Pool Rooms is a glassed-in separate room (highly ventilated to the outside atmosphere). That works for me & the Pool Room has lots of business. So I'll do my smoking outside, in a room or not at all.

We are a country that was founded on personal freedom, but no personal freedom should be allowed when in it treads on another, in such a way as to cause harm. Note, a compromise is available for the Smoker... go outside.

If we had no lobbyists & Congress wasn't a coward, this situation would have been settled. But since Congress is a coward & Lobbyists get their way, because they are selling money, you & I are not considered when it comes to making laws are setting policy.
 
You got it right!

ceebee said:
I fully recognize that smoking is a personal choice. I only smoke casually, when I play Pool. I learned to play Pool in the years between 1958 & 1974. Then I quit playing Pool & subsequently quit smoking. When I started playing Pool again in 2000, I also bought a pack of Camels.

I live in the Tulsa area & we have some good Pool Rooms. One of the upscale rooms went away because of a Smoking Ban & then finally suffered bankruptcy.

Anecdote; when the Casino Frenzy began, the action players went away & they too went bankrupt.

In the State of Kansas, you can't smoke in a public area, except in the casinos, which the State owns. Go figure. The government always rule in it's favor, when money is involved.

Smoking & No Smoking will never find a compromise (see exception below), so one faction will have their way. I'm afraid that in a democratic society, the Non-Smokers will rule the roost.

The Exception we have in some Pool Rooms is a glassed-in separate room (highly ventilated to the outside atmosphere). That works for me & the Pool Room has lots of business. So I'll do my smoking outside, in a room or not at all.

We are a country that was founded on personal freedom, but no personal freedom should be allowed when in it treads on another, in such a way as to cause harm. Note, a compromise is available for the Smoker... go outside.

If we had no lobbyists & Congress wasn't a coward, this situation would have been settled. But since Congress is a coward & Lobbyists get their way, because they are selling money, you & I are not considered when it comes to making laws are setting policy.
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Well stated. In my area there are non-smoking zip codes and the Pool Halls there are far better places to play, hope they move to ban smoking through out the city.
 
I have no problem if a business "decides" to be smoke free....it's when the government (in most cases - whatever state the establishments are in) BANS the owners CHOICE in the matter. Let the free market decide. If poolroom A is non smoking but everyone goes to poolroom B that allows smoking then the customers have decided and not the state.

btw, I would frequent the non smoking establishment; but really dislike the government sticking their heads into EVERY facet of our lives.
 
its not that easy..,

Saturated Fats said:
I just left Ohio where smoking has been banned since 2006. I'm now in Florida where smoking is still allowed in bars (which of course includes pool rooms).

In 1965, the percentage of US adults that smoked was about 42%. By 2012, it had come down to about 18%:

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...about-smoking-tobacco-and-health-how-many-use

That means that today about 4 out of 5 people do not smoke and presumably don't want to be in businesses where smoke is prevalent. So are we at the point where smoke is keeping more people out of pool rooms than if smoking is banned?

If 18% is still not low enough, at what point is it bad business to allow smoking in pool rooms?
Click to expand...

So many players smoke in my area that it seems like they out number those of us hat don't, but the problem is the fact that the owners cant take the chance of banning smoking if there is a place that is close that still allows smoking.

Drinking and smoking go together like many bad habits and until the federal laws change, its up to the states. If your lucky enough to live in a liberal state, great. if not your stuck like me.
 
King T said:
So many players smoke in my area that it seems like they out number those of us hat don't, but the problem is the fact that the owners cant take the chance of banning smoking if there is a place that is close that still allows smoking.

Drinking and smoking go together like many bad habits and until the federal laws change, its up to the states. If your lucky enough to live in a liberal state, great. if not your stuck like me.
Click to expand...

IL has been smoke free since 07....no smoking indoors at all. All I'm saying is let the patrons choose; not the state. Before 07 there were places I would not go due to lack of adequate ventilation, etc. No big deal, I'm a big boy and can make that decision on my own. Smokers now don't have the decision to go to a non smoking establishment, cuz they ALL are.
 
Things change. My father used to smoke the car while we hung out of the window. Now I strap my kids into 5-point harnesses and bubble wrap. If I still smoked and did with my kids in the car my wife would get me locked up for child abuse.

Every time I bring my cue to Vegas I forget how thick the smoke can get in the pool halls. Smoking is a choice but the tide has turned and in today's society it's almost always "The good of the many" vs "The rights of the individual". What happens in Casino's is a complete anomaly because they never want the customer (sucker) to every stop and think about what they are doing.

Nick

King T said:
So many players smoke in my area that it seems like they out number those of us hat don't, but the problem is the fact that the owners cant take the chance of banning smoking if there is a place that is close that still allows smoking.

Drinking and smoking go together like many bad habits and until the federal laws change, its up to the states. If your lucky enough to live in a liberal state, great. if not your stuck like me.
Click to expand...
 
Saturated Fats said:
I just left Ohio where smoking has been banned since 2006. I'm now in Florida where smoking is still allowed in bars (which of course includes pool rooms).

In 1965, the percentage of US adults that smoked was about 42%. By 2012, it had come down to about 18%:

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...about-smoking-tobacco-and-health-how-many-use

That means that today about 4 out of 5 people do not smoke and presumably don't want to be in businesses where smoke is prevalent. So are we at the point where smoke is keeping more people out of pool rooms than if smoking is banned?

If 18% is still not low enough, at what point is it bad business to allow smoking in pool rooms?
Click to expand...

Why do more percentage of pool players smoke than the general population? Are they less intelligent as a group?

JC
 
slide13 said:
I'm sorry, but what a stupid statement. Asking someone to go outside to take part in an activity that is both annoying and harmful to the health of those around them is not treating you like a second-class citizen.

I'm very thankful I live in a smoke free state. I was a smoker once and even then I was for the ban. I used to go outside to smoke, it wasn't such a hardship. Now that I don't smoke I would never frequent a smoking establishment, couldn't stand it.
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I'm sorry also that you missed the gist of the statement.
I don't go to tourneys anymore, pool-halls or bars.
Do you think I'm alone?
The issue has automatically lessened the number of clientele in any of these businesses.
I still smoke; I enjoy it. I just don't spend my money at places that don't allow me to smoke.
May be stupid to you but it works for me.

KJ
 
Well..,

trustyrusty said:
IL has been smoke free since 07....no smoking indoors at all. All I'm saying is let the patrons choose; not the state. Before 07 there were places I would not go due to lack of adequate ventilation, etc. No big deal, I'm a big boy and can make that decision on my own. Smokers now don't have the decision to go to a non smoking establishment, cuz they ALL are.
Click to expand...

I think this is about Pool Halls, but I will say that every now and then the free market is not the best barometer of whats best. Im sure you can think of a few instances as well..., smoking on airplanes?
 
Bottom line

When the smoke is so bad they loose customers they go non smoking as they are there to make money. It should not be our federal, state, local or any governments call. No one is forced to go into a place that allows smoking. I can see an issue when an employee retains an attorney and claims they are being exposed to harmful chemicals at work, which is second hand smoke. In this day and age it is hard to tell how that would shake out. One law suit pay out eats up a lot of profit and could also make it hard to find insurance. So that "exposure" to a law suit might enter into a non smoking bottom line for a business too.
 
King T said:
I think this is about Pool Halls, but I will say that every now and then the free market is not the best barometer of whats best. Im sure you can think of a few instances as well..., smoking on airplanes?
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Again, another instance where I question if a LAW is needed. If there were flights offered by Southwest and American one being smoking and one not, I'd choose the non-smoking one.

I also don't buy a 44oz fountain mountain dew if I go into the gas station to grab something to drink. There will be a law sometime in the future banning that choice too. It's really crazy. Apparently my decision making skills suck, so the all knowing government will just make them for me....

limiting choices is really easy, what doesn't sell, goes away. If a couple of dozen folks booked on the smoking flights vs. thousands on the non smoking ones, guess what the airlines would do; all on their own?!
 
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KJ Cues said:
I'm sorry also that you missed the gist of the statement.
I don't go to tourneys anymore, pool-halls or bars.
Do you think I'm alone?
The issue has automatically lessened the number of clientele in any of these businesses.
I still smoke; I enjoy it. I just don't spend my money at places that don't allow me to smoke.
May be stupid to you but it works for me.

KJ
Click to expand...

Didn't miss the gist of your statement at all, just saying that the premise that you're treated as a second-class citizen because you can't smoke wherever you want is completely fallacious. You can stay home and smoke all you want, you just can't subject others to it in public places any longer. If that makes you not want to attend events anymore, that's your decision. Stay home, smoke, and be happy...just don't act the martyr because of it.

There are many things that we, as a society, have decided are not appropriate for public places. Doesn't mean you don't have a right to do them in the privacy of your home, you just don't get to subject others to it.
 
slide13 said:
Didn't miss the gist of your statement at all, just saying that the premise that you're treated as a second-class citizen because you can't smoke wherever you want is completely fallacious. You can stay home and smoke all you want, you just can't subject others to it in public places any longer. If that makes you not want to attend events anymore, that's your decision. Stay home, smoke, and be happy...just don't act the martyr because of it.

There are many things that we, as a society, have decided are not appropriate for public places. Doesn't mean you don't have a right to do them in the privacy of your home, you just don't get to subject others to it.
Click to expand...

do you believe that a business owner should have the right to open an establishment to cater to him and others like him? Or once the state decides that he is a minority and society has spoken, he can not have choices of places where he can smoke in a public setting? Or is it, since you and the majority of the public don't want to be bothered by something that you don't participate in, then that act shouldn't be allowed anywhere? You can choose to not go somewhere just as well as he can, right?
 
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