average high runs

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
In the German 1st Bundesliga where players such as Niels Feijen, Ralf Soquet, Albin Ouschan, David Alcaide play
the average points per inning are in the 10-14 region. Generally you can say that getting into double digits on your
points per inning is where the men are seperated from the boys. This includes all safeties (the safeties count as an
inning).

gr. Dave
 
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LTL

Registered
In the German 1st Bundesliga where players such as Niels Feijen, Ralf Soquet, Albin Ouschan, David Alcaide play
the average points per inning are in the 10-14 region. Generally you can say that getting into double digits on your
points per inning is where the men are seperated from the boys. This includes all safeties (the safeties count as an
inning).

gr. Dave

Thanks Dave! I believe my average is typically close to 6 BPI with safeties factored in, so I'm thinking I'm not quite at the pro level just yet. :D I'll keep working at it though!

Thanks again for the info.
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
Thanks Dave! I believe my average is typically close to 6 BPI with safeties factored in, so I'm thinking I'm not quite at the pro level just yet. :D I'll keep working at it though!

Thanks again for the info.

for a goof, when you watch a match on youtube keep track of the innings to get some of the stats you are looking for.

i sometimes do this, but ussually get sidetracked because i get so engulfed in the pattern play !!

-Steve
 

LTL

Registered
for a goof, when you watch a match on youtube keep track of the innings to get some of the stats you are looking for.

i sometimes do this, but ussually get sidetracked because i get so engulfed in the pattern play !!

-Steve

I'll give it a try. Based on our match yesterday my BPI was 6.25 (safeties excluded). Does this mean I'm not a Pro? :(
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
I'll give it a try. Based on our match yesterday my BPI was 6.25 (safeties excluded). Does this mean I'm not a Pro? :(

Based on what Double-Dave said, safeties are left in so that would make it even lower. if memory serves me correctly you had between 10-15 safeties.

and you beat me, so how do you think i feel about my BPI ???

-Steve
 

LTL

Registered
Based on what Double-Dave said, safeties are left in so that would make it even lower. if memory serves me correctly you had between 10-15 safeties.

and you beat me, so how do you think i feel about my BPI ???

-Steve

Sounds like you should go back to including safety innings in scoring the league matches. This would certainly simplify things... and bring BPI's way down also!
 

jieiko

Registered
I always thought that if you are averaging 9 per inning that you are playing a high level of straight pool.
 

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
I always thought that if you are averaging 9 per inning that you are playing a high level of straight pool.

Safeties included, most definitely! The guys that are over 10 are truly world class speed players. Ortmann has an average of close to 11, Feijen almost 14.
Guys who play 1 notch below them, Ivo Aarts for example has an average of 7 and Ivo is no slouch.

To see these number for yourself Google "Billard Area" plus the name of the player. Click on the result that ends in "Eigene Statistik".
For Ortmann this is the link (takes a while to load 20-30 seconds) http://portal.billardarea.de/cms_clubs/playerstats/2187/168583

gr. Dave
 
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rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is a ton of stats posted by forum member Atlarge from last years world tournament. Included is an average with and without safeties taken into account. Great stuff.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=371626
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=371948

Seems like you need to average 20-30 balls per attempted scoring inning in order to consistently win at that level.


I used to play with an older fellow back in the 1970s. He always said, given a clean and open opportunity, if you can run a consistent 25 balls, you will be competitive with most anyone.
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unfortunately, this doesn't differentiate between a run that ends with a miss and an run that ends with a safety. The only meaningful measure of a 14.1 player is wins and losses. If you can beat players that used to beat you, then you are improving.

Don't manage your average run, mange your wins and losses, and as you improve in your wins and losses, start playing against tougher players to validate your progress.

I'm surprised how many people agree with the part in bold.

If a guy is only capable of running 30 balls than they are only capable of running 30 balls. They may learn how to eek out a victory here and there against better players by learning to properly play the percentages or they may get better at grinding out lesser players by doing the same but when it's all said and done -- they are what their high run says they are.

Learning to compete is one thing but learning to run balls doesn't happen as much in competition as it does on the practice table.

I think your statement holds true for the more advanced players and professionals. Once guys are playing a match where either player is capable of running out the entire set, then wins and losses are really the only thing that matters. For the rest of us amateurs, I think the daily high run average would be a nearly perfect indicator of overall skill.

Nice thread.
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
I'm surprised how many people agree with the part in bold.

If a guy is only capable of running 30 balls than they are only capable of running 30 balls. They may learn how to eek out a victory here and there against better players by learning to properly play the percentages or they may get better at grinding out lesser players by doing the same but when it's all said and done -- they are what their high run says they are.

Learning to compete is one thing but learning to run balls doesn't happen as much in competition as it does on the practice table.

I think your statement holds true for the more advanced players and professionals. Once guys are playing a match where either player is capable of running out the entire set, then wins and losses are really the only thing that matters. For the rest of us amateurs, I think the daily high run average would be a nearly perfect indicator of overall skill.

Nice thread.

I think the main point is worrying less about your average ball count in each match and more about choosing the right shots to win a match. If you are able to win at the professional level, you are going to be averaging 25-35 balls per scoring visit anyways. Similarly in snooker, I can't tell how many times I've taken on a stupid pot just to keep the break going and let my opponent back in the game only to lose later on.

As amateurs I think we tend to make shot selections that are focused on getting a higher BPI, when ultimately the only number that matters is the end score.
 
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efirkey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I am playing my "A" game against an opponent I will have a 40+ ball run at least once every day. When I am off and playing at a "B" level the high run will be around 30. I have played in straight pool leagues and I average around 8 balls an inning. I am considered an "A" player.

If there is no opponent and I am just trying to get a high run for hours than I expect the numbers to be higher, but I never did this. I would get bored after about 30 minutes.

Based on many years and thousands of straight pool games

Highest run for the day playing several games

Pro Level - 75+
A Level - 40+
B Level - 28+
C Level - 18+
D Level - 10+
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would offer the thought that establishing letter (A, B, C, etc.) categories and associated average run numbers might lead some aspiring players into poor shot selection. One important goal in practice sessions is to work on decision making that will permit long runs. The goal should not be to raise one's average by a ball or two. Yes, there is a balance between selecting the shot that will maximize the opportunity to have a long run (e.g., playing a difficult shot early in the rack in order to preserve a lovely break ball), and avoiding the same shot if the risk of missing it is too high, but never should the big picture be ignored for the sole purpose of improving a stat. Of course, for higher level players this is irrelevant.
 
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