Average Number of Shots

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Jonathan01

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Hey, I am just getting into playing pool seriously. I have only played pool before a few times a year at guys house from when I was around 10 until I was about 16 years old old when he got rid of his table. I am now 22.

He had an 8ft, I just joined a APA team this session, so I am now playing on a 7ft bar table at least once a week.

Ok, that was a little background on me, now here's the real question. Yesterday, I was practicing on a 8ft, and I seem to have found my aim little better now. I played 4 or 5 racks of 8 ball by myself. What I did was rack and break all 15 balls, and played (open table) like it was straight pool expect I kepted the 8 ball as a neutral ball like 8 ball. I was averaging 30 shots to pocket all 15 balls. I never averaged my shots like this before, but last week before I found my aim, I was probably averaging about 60 shots for 15 balls, which I was embarrassed with.

What would be a good number of shots to work towards, so I can improve my game.
 
It's good that you're keeping track. The record for practice games is 768 balls in a row without a miss. (It's at a slightly different game than you're playing, but it's comparable.) That was by a world champion.

The way that people usually keep track is how many balls they make on a average turn. If you took 30 shots to make all 15, you were averaging one ball (and one miss) per turn. That would be referred to as a 1.000 average. A higher average is better, so 2.000 would be your next milestone. That would be 7 or 8 turns (and 22 or 23 shots) to clear the table.

Also try to note what kind of shots you are having trouble with and practice them between racks.

Good luck.
 
Jonathan01 said:
Hey, I am just getting into playing pool seriously. I have only played pool before a few times a year at guys house from when I was around 10 until I was about 16 years old old when he got rid of his table. I am now 22.

He had an 8ft, I just joined a APA team this session, so I am now playing on a 7ft bar table at least once a week.

Ok, that was a little background on me, now here's the real question. Yesterday, I was practicing on a 8ft, and I seem to have found my aim little better now. I played 4 or 5 racks of 8 ball by myself. What I did was rack and break all 15 balls, and played (open table) like it was straight pool expect I kepted the 8 ball as a neutral ball like 8 ball. I was averaging 30 shots to pocket all 15 balls. I never averaged my shots like this before, but last week before I found my aim, I was probably averaging about 60 shots for 15 balls, which I was embarrassed with.

What would be a good number of shots to work towards, so I can improve my game.
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You can't really say what's a good number of shots per ball is to get to, really the goal is one shot, one ball, but that's not really how pool is tracked. You need to go for innings per game. So if you break the balls, run them all out, that's one inning. One shot per ball. An average pool player that is out of the diaper stage of skill is a "C" palyer, it would take a C player probably 3 innings to finish a rack of 8 ball or 9 ball, on average, if you start with ball in hand. From the sound of things, if you are missing every other shot shooting at ANY ball, you need to work on some drills and practice to get to a C level. That's really the start of what people who don't play pool would call a "good" pool player.

Take a look online for a progressive drill, it shows a lot of different shots you can practice, with each level explained and what the goal is for each shot. Without someone to teach you, or at least show you a few things, the right way, it will take a very long time to improve just shooting at balls randomly. It's something that my son after almost 4 years of playing ( he's 12 now) is just starting to understand.
 
I wouldn't worry so much where you stand. There is always someone better. God is the best, and then Efren is better than him;) LOL

But keeping track of your own progress is great. If you have the decipline (I do not), one good way to practice is when you miss a shot (or position), set it up and shot it 10 times in a row. Repetition will hammer home a shot, and once you learn it, you will have it for life. Some shots can be learned in 10 tries, some will require many more.

This also guarantees you are working on your weaknesses.

Best of luck.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
It's good that you're keeping track. The record for practice games is 768 balls in a row without a miss. (It's at a slightly different game than you're playing, but it's comparable.) That was by a world champion.

The way that people usually keep track is how many balls they make on a average turn. If you took 30 shots to make all 15, you were averaging one ball (and one miss) per turn. That would be referred to as a 1.000 average. A higher average is better, so 2.000 would be your next milestone. That would be 7 or 8 turns (and 22 or 23 shots) to clear the table.

Also try to note what kind of shots you are having trouble with and practice them between racks.

Good luck.
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Sometimes i would run 4-6 balls, than start having problems. Pretty much if the OB was on the same end of the table as the CB, (close shots), i would make that pretty easy. Frozen to the rail shot are about 40- 50%. OBs that are 1/4" to a ball off the rail cut shots I have problems with. I found that around the 15th shot I would have about 5-8 balls left, this is where i start runing into to the trouble clusters, rail shots, 6' long shots, etc.

After I left playing around on the 8ft, I played a few games with a teammate on a 7ft a few hours later, and one game I ran 6 balls, leaving one stripe and the 8 ball for me to win the game.

I was making shots that I never thought I was going to make. Some of the shots that I took, looked way off to me, but according to my way of aiming now, i took the shot, and it went straight into the center of the pocket.
 
hang-the-9 said:
You can't really say what's a good number of shots per ball is to get to, really the goal is one shot, one ball, but that's not really how pool is tracked. You need to go for innings per game. So if you break the balls, run them all out, that's one inning. One shot per ball. An average pool player that is out of the diaper stage of skill is a "C" palyer, it would take a C player probably 3 innings to finish a rack of 8 ball or 9 ball, on average, if you start with ball in hand. From the sound of things, if you are missing every other shot shooting at ANY ball, you need to work on some drills and practice to get to a C level. That's really the start of what people who don't play pool would call a "good" pool player.

Take a look online for a progressive drill, it shows a lot of different shots you can practice, with each level explained and what the goal is for each shot. Without someone to teach you, or at least show you a few things, the right way, it will take a very long time to improve just shooting at balls randomly. It's something that my son after almost 4 years of playing ( he's 12 now) is just starting to understand.
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I will look into more drills. I guy that was helping me the other day said if i can complete the "L" drill, I will be able to play a good game of pool. I can get through leg that is runing down the center of the table 50% of the time, but can't position for the second leg.

Thanks
 
Jonathan01 said:
I will look into more drills. I guy that was helping me the other day said if i can complete the "L" drill, I will be able to play a good game of pool. I can get through leg that is runing down the center of the table 50% of the time, but can't position for the second leg.

Thanks
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Make sure you learn from someone worth learning from also :smile:

One of the best compliments I ever got was from a kid I showed some things to, he said "it's about time I has someone explain things to me that can actually make the shots he's talking about". There was a guy at our pool hall that loved to talk, butt in, explain how to hit this shot or that, but could not actually do any of the things he talked about. Which usually means that he does not understand what is wrong or what is right if someone misses or plays the shot wrong and can't correct the student. Or even be right in what he is saying. Don't just play one drill over and over again to get good, you need to work on the fundamental shots and basics of stance and aiming before trying to do any drills with more than a few balls. That will get you to a place where you can make the shots you need and the speed control needed to actually play the game. Which is where the progressive drills come in, they use one ball, make a shot several times in a row, move the balls to a more difficult spot, make those, move them again, etc...

Look here http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showdrill.php?id=7 for some samples, or http://www.sfbilliards.com/progpract.pdf, print that out, take it to the room with you, hit the balls a thousand times.
 
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iusedtoberich said:
I wouldn't worry so much where you stand. There is always someone better. God is the best, and then Efren is better than him;) LOL

But keeping track of your own progress is great. If you have the decipline (I do not), one good way to practice is when you miss a shot (or position), set it up and shot it 10 times in a row. Repetition will hammer home a shot, and once you learn it, you will have it for life. Some shots can be learned in 10 tries, some will require many more.

This also guarantees you are working on your weaknesses.

Best of luck.
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I hope get a table within the next 6 months, need to build the game room first. I planing on getting a 9 foot table, when I do get one. So, my thinking is if I can make a number of different shots 10 tables in a row on a 9ft, when i play my 8ball APA match on the 7footer, it should seeem easy to run the table in 2-3 innings.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Make sure you learn from someone worth learning from also :smile:

One of the best compliments I ever got was from a kid I showed some things to, he said "it's about time I has someone explain things to me that can actually make the shots he's talking about". There was a guy at our pool hall that loved to talk, butt in, explain how to hit this shot or that, but could not actually do any of the things he talked about. Which usually means that he does not understand what is wrong or what is right if someone misses or plays the shot wrong and can't correct the student. Or even be right in what he is saying. Don't just play one drill over and over again to get good, you need to work on the fundamental shots and basics of stance and aiming before trying to do any drills with more than a few balls. That will get you to a place where you can make the shots you need and the speed control needed to actually play the game. Which is where the progressive drills come in, they use one ball, make a shot several times in a row, move the balls to a more difficult spot, make those, move them again, etc...
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Yes, it is great when someone actually shows me some things, and not get say if you missed the shot, hit it in a different spot the not time. Yes, if I shoot the same shot in a different spot the next try, i may make it, what i need just the basics.
 
I think 20 represents a solid player with some clue of cue ball control. A good player will probably do it in 15-17 the vast majority of the time
 
mantis99 said:
I think 20 represents a solid player with some clue of cue ball control. A good player will probably do it in 15-17 the vast majority of the time
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Thanks, I think my next goal is going to be 23 - 26 shots a rack for 4 racks in a row. Than, if I can do a few sets of 4 racks in that range, than drop it to 20-23 shots, I may be able to get down to 18-19 shots, but 15-17 shots is going to be a while for me I think.I would love to be able to get down to say 12-15 shots for 15 balls one day. These numbers are for either just throwing all the balls on the table, or breaking a rack than throwing the potted balls back on the table. So, the 12-14 shots would mean that some combos were made.

Thanks again
 
There are numerous means of measuring one's own progress at developing your skill levels, beyond handicap ratings that you may earn in APA, BCA, TAP, VNEA or other leagues that you may choose to play in.

Those means include:

Practice 14.1 - Straight Pool by setting up an open break and work to pocket as many called balls as you can. The longer your runs are the better your skills at general game play is going to be measured.

Play Bowliards - Your score your play as you would in bowling basically.

Play Equal Offense - A bit of a variant of straight pool, but you limit the number of misses while you try to run a rack of 15 balls. Beginners normally limit to 3 turns. As you improve you reduce the number of misses before you have to re-rack and start over again. You play 10 racks. You score 1 point for each called pocketed ball.

Play "99" - A 9-ball variant game that used to be promoted by Pool & Billiard Magazine. The magazine website used to offer links for the rules and score sheets that you can use to score your 9 ball play efforts.

In terms of general testing of all your fundamental basic skills I also recommend that you invest in the PAT 1 Book and DVD to regularly test yourself under the PAT 1 drill set. That material works really well to use as part of a dedicated training regimen that you may set for yourself if your seriously wanting to learn and improve your fundamental skills.

I have used all the above as part of my own training system, and applying each on a regular basis, and by keeping track of your progress for each you will in time be able to see how far you are advancing in your skills and your control at the table.
 
The goal would be 1 to 1 of course but that would make you a pretty high level player.

I say keep doing what your doing, tracking your progress and making note of where your errors/mistakes are and working to the fix those.

You have a great head start, most people just bang balls over and over and hope they get better but never know where they are now, where they are going and why or why not.

Well done so far. Have patience and have fun. :)
 
Thank you David, I will plan to play all of those games.

I will try to keep a spreadsheet of my shots per rack, and see my improvment.

One thing that I was surprised with was that my number of shots only varied by 2 or 3 shots per rack over 4 rack.


Thanks again
 
While I think straight pool is a good way to start, I would also roll 3 balls on the table and shoot them in sequence to help work on cue ball control and make you think about where you are going to go from one shot to the next.

If you have the money, taking a lesson or two from one of the good instructors on this forum will be the fastest way to significantly decrease your learning curve. Some of them like Scot Lee will actually come out to your house and give you a video of the whole thing to refer back to. I would do something like that sooner than later do avoid developing bad habits in you stroke that an be very difficult to change later.
 
mantis99 said:
While I think straight pool is a good way to start, I would also roll 3 balls on the table and shoot them in sequence to help work on cue ball control and make you think about where you are going to go from one shot to the next.

If you have the money, taking a lesson or two from one of the good instructors on this forum will be the fastest way to significantly decrease your learning curve. Some of them like Scot Lee will actually come out to your house and give you a video of the whole thing to refer back to. I would do something like that sooner than later do avoid developing bad habits in you stroke that an be very difficult to change later.
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I will try the 3 balls in order. I was thinking about about on a 9 ball team next session, thinking that will help my CB control.

As far as the lessons, I would like to find one in my area (New Orleans) I don't think I would have the money right now for one to come to me or me travel to him.
 
You should strive to run run 15 balls in 15 shots... Once you can do that consistantly, you can screw around and try to run them in less then 15.
 
Icon of Sin said:
You should strive to run run 15 balls in 15 shots... Once you can do that consistantly, you can screw around and try to run them in less then 15.
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At the risk of ruining his action, I think Corey Deuel has done 15 in 9 or 10 shots.
 
DavidMNienow said:
In terms of general testing of all your fundamental basic skills I also recommend that you invest in the PAT 1 Book and DVD to regularly test yourself under the PAT 1 drill set. That material works really well to use as part of a dedicated training regimen that you may set for yourself if your seriously wanting to learn and improve your fundamental skills.
Click to expand...

I will check the PAT 1 out. Right now I am just starting to read "Play your Best Eight ball", I a guy lent it to me saturday. When I get my table I will really be able to do a lot of drills out of books and dvds, and keep good track of my numbers.
 
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