Awkward ending to a game, who won this match?

[ShiroTensaki]

I was playing a guy at a pub, we were down to the 8 balls, my hole was the upper right, his was the bottom left, he shots, missed, the 8 ball bounced around and roll up to the upper left hole and kind of just, hand there by half an inch of falling in, but stays in the table, while i was getting ready to try what seemed like an impossible shot to get that 8 ball out of that corner, it just finally fell in...

His turn was over, i was getting ready to make my shot, but i never did, no one bumped the table it just fell in...so who won that game...

(We just settled for a re-match, but in curious,if it had been an official game, what would had been the ruling?)

 

[AtLarge]

Put the 8-ball back where it was, and it's your turn. From the WPA (World-Standardized) Rules:

1.7 Balls Settling
A ball may settle slightly after it appears to have stopped, possibly due to slight imperfections in the ball or the table. Unless this causes a ball to fall into a pocket, it is considered a normal hazard of play, and the ball will not be moved back. If a ball falls into a pocket as the result of such settling, it is restored as closely as possible to its original position. If a settling ball falls into a pocket during or just prior to a shot, and this has an effect on the shot, the referee will restore the position and the shot will be replayed. The shooter is not penalized for shooting while a ball is settling. See also 8.3 Ball Pocketed.

8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.

Caveat: WPA rules are not universally observed, but are a good guide if no other rules are in effect.

 

[PaulieB]

You lucked out with a rematch, the 8 should of just been replaced where it was before it fell in to the hole.

Hope you won the re-rack.

 

[PaulieB]

BTW, I always hated this about rule 8.3...

"If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not."

I don't like how an object ball can go into a pocket, hit another ball and bounce out, and be considered to be not pocketed. Yet somehow, the cueball can go into a pocket, hit another ball and bounce out, and yet it is considered pocketed and hence a scratch. Seems like a double standard to me.

 

[AtLarge]

BTW, I always hated this about rule 8.3...

"If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not."

I don't like how an object ball can go into a pocket, hit another ball and bounce out, and be considered to be not pocketed. Yet somehow, the cueball can go into a pocket, hit another ball and bounce out, and yet it is considered pocketed and hence a scratch. Seems like a double standard to me.

Not counting the OB as pocketed unless it stays in the pocket eliminates arguments as to whether it was ever "in."

Counting the CB as pocketed if it hits another pocketed ball prevents the shooter from filling the pocket to prevent a scratch.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

BTW, I always hated this about rule 8.3...

"If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not."

I don't like how an object ball can go into a pocket, hit another ball and bounce out, and be considered to be not pocketed. Yet somehow, the cueball can go into a pocket, hit another ball and bounce out, and yet it is considered pocketed and hence a scratch. Seems like a double standard to me.

It makes sense to me. It is the shooter's responsibility to make sure there are no balls in a pocket that can interfere with play. So he shouldn't benefit from an OB not staying down because it hit a ball in the pocket. Similarly, if the cue ball hits a ball and doesn't stay down the shooter should not get the benefit of it not being a scratch. Making sure the pocket is clear is his responsibility.

If a pocket is close to full who makes the call about if the OB would have gone in anyway (like it slowed rolled to the pocket, contacted a ball but maybe wouldn't have rolled all the way in; or rattled across the face and contacted a ball in the lip). Same with the cue ball. If it hits a ball who calls whether it would have gone in or not? Judgement calls and potential arguments.

So, the responsibility falls on the shooter - no credit for an OB and no getting out of a scratch.

 

[Cornerman]

I was playing a guy at a pub, we were down to the 8 balls, my hole was the upper right, his was the bottom left, he shots, missed, the 8 ball bounced around and roll up to the upper left hole and kind of just, hand there by half an inch of falling in, but stays in the table, while i was getting ready to try what seemed like an impossible shot to get that 8 ball out of that corner, it just finally fell in...

His turn was over, i was getting ready to make my shot, but i never did, no one bumped the table it just fell in...so who won that game...

(We just settled for a re-match, but in curious,if it had been an official game, what would had been the ruling?)

We're you playing Last Pocket?

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Counting the CB as pocketed if it hits another pocketed ball prevents the shooter from filling the pocket to prevent a scratch.

I have seen a player do this on purpose.

A related move that's marginally legal is to make sure that there are exactly two balls in a Gold Crown drop pocket when shooting a shot very hard. With fewer balls than that, the object ball has more chance of coming back out and with more it also has more chance of coming out. Two is the magic number.

 

[PGHteacher]

I have seen a player do this on purpose.

A related move that's marginally legal is to make sure that there are exactly two balls in a Gold Crown drop pocket when shooting a shot very hard. With fewer balls than that, the object ball has more chance of coming back out and with more it also has more chance of coming out. Two is the magic number.

Does it matter how the balls are arranged/oriented that are within the pocket?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Does it matter how the balls are arranged/oriented that are within the pocket? (to avoid another ball being rejected by the pocket)

I've never tried the experiment. I think pockets have a problem with a single ball because it centers itself on the "drain hole" and if a ball goes right in the center of the pocket it can hit that ball squarely. I think two balls tend to be looser. Three may be OK, but four are definitely a problem for Brunswick GCIII and earlier pockets.

 

[Bob Jewett]

We're you playing Last Pocket?

It sounds like he was playing last pocket. He should be aware that if you are playing last pocket and the eight ball is on the brink of the wrong pocket, it is OK to play the cue ball to hit three cushions before it knocks the 8 in the "wrong" pocket. You win if you make the shot. Like bank shots, the cushion just by the pocket does not count as a cushion contact.