B and Below.... fouled up handicaps RANT

dirtypool40

dirtypool40

I love this freakin' game
Silver Member
Like a lot of you, I am NOT NOT NOT a champion, or hell, even an A-player (YET!). I'm an 8 in APA "Power league".

I play in several local weekly handicapped tournaments.

For some reason, the time tested method of rating someone a 2-9 LIKE THEIR LEAGUE HANDICAP makes WAY too much sense, so locally several of them go from like 10-15 instead. I know, whatever, not the point.

Anyway, so there's this little series at a local room, play a dozen tournies and you can play the "big one". $10 normally, $20 "big one" with mo' money.

They spot balls. 11 give a 10 the last 2, 12 gives 10 the last 3 and so on.

I play in like 15 tournaments, and enter the "big one" as a 13. I am a 13 at other rooms and don't even cash. I'm kind of a "soft" 13 / APA 8, but I am trying.

Anyway, so I win the big one. Races to 4 the whole day, I go double hill 4 of 7 sets. Those are coin flips!!! Didn't break and run a single rack the whole day.

So I won, they move me up to a 14 the next week. I play about 6 more tournaments and win another one, scrapping for every game.

Someone who has the TD's ear, is whining, and... you guessed it, they move me up again. Now I'm a 15 and have no chance of winning a match let alone cashing.

A guy I played head's up and had a losing record against got moved down, because he didn't do well in the big one, and is such a nice player.

So now, by their twisted logic, he's a 12 and I'm a 15. I have to give this guy the last 4!!!

Here's the kicker, in "Power League" where handicaps are determined by something other than TD whim, this guy SPOTS ME A GAME!!! :thumbup:

And he wonders why the tournaments have dwindled to nothing and one died all together.

Nice going!!

The guy's not a bad guy, he just doesn't know pool or have any idea why someone is winning or what separates players.
 
Thanks, I'm sure I confused everyone with my rant, the gist is he has me mis-rated by roughly the last 4 because he, and the little birdy in his ear don't know pool.
 
Ok besides the TD, being a complete idiot,,,,,

how does he figure, a 11 gives a 10 the last two??? or a 12 gives a 10 the last 3????

I mean those are pretty big spots,,,,, unless a 11, isnt a run out player???

is this a barbox tourny of 9ft tourny???

If you were a "13" what does that equal as far as being a B/B+ player???

Cuz giving up the last 2 or 3 or 4, is alot expecially if your not a run out player
 
I agree, giving out that many balls is a HUGE spot. I'll give up games anyday before I give up balls.
 
Not laughing at you but that is funny, give the guy the last 4 my god. I have to say it wouldnt be that big of a deal to me Im sure when I asked the guy "are you out of your fing mind" that would end my invite to his turnys but that is what would be said, that is fing insane. I would play alot of people given the last 4. you should ask " do you want me too toss in the break so we make sure its a fair game" Thats harsh, good luck ( as much as I hate that saying in pool) sounds like your going to need it..
 
let me get this straight...

You win a "big" tournament and the TD raises your ranking. Sounds O.K.

A little while later, you win another "big" tournament at your new higher ranking. Good for you. Your ranking is again raised.

Now you feel that your ranking is too high and that you can't win.
The latest ranking increase isn't something that great and you just won with a ranking slightly lower.

You complain about someone else who supposedly is better than you, but has had no success in the tournaments. His ranking has been lowered. Sounds about right to me. You're winning the tournaments and complaining about the ranking of someone who is not winning anything.

No pity coming your way from me.

Sounds like you like to be one of the sandbaggers that want to win without having to work too hard.

Play at your new ranking and time will tell if its too high. Your post suggests that if a person has poor performance for a period of time, his ranking is lowered.
 
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I had almost the same situation a little while back.A few years ago I was playing pretty good(for me) then I got very sick and after getting well I was injured in a car accident,so for almost 3 years I didn`t hit a ball.
I went in to play a handicapped tournament one night and when it came time to play I found out I was rated as high as you could be rated.I had to play guys even that could give me the seven when I was playing good.
I went to the room owner and ask why I was rated so high(especially since I had a 3 year break) He said some of the guys told him I played that good and he beleived them.Now keep in mind these same guys are the ones always looking to trap someone or steal a tournament.I told the room owner to follow me and I went straight over to the guys and said "Since I play so good I`m going to play (name withheld) a set even for $500 and I want you guys to back me"They didn`t say a word.I said to them "don`t you think I can beat him even?" Finally one of the guys says you need at least the 8 and last 2.So I looked at the room owner and said "see" .He told me he would leave me at the high rank and move me down after each tournament if I needed it.I told him shove his tournament and have never gone back.
 
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With rankings similar to APA, I have always enjoyed a race to a set number of points determined by your rank, with each ball worth 1 point and the 9 worth 2 (total points per rack=10). If you are a 13 and your opponent is a 4 you have to beat them 130 to 40, or some percentage of that (65-20, etc.). This way, the winner is determined by the person who pockets their handicap's worth of points in a match, and it can end in the middle of a game. All other rules apply. If you are playing in a large tournament and win, your handicap goes up 1 point. If you lose your first 2 matches, you go down a point, etc. We actually went up and down weekly by 1/2 points for those placing 2nd or 3rd, or those who won only 1 match if there were more than 16 players. It was fun. You would always run into your handicap eventually if you won too many matches, and everyone had a chance over time to win it all. You couldn't be lower than a 2.
 
StormHotRod300 said:
Ok besides the TD, being a complete idiot,,,,,

how does he figure, a 11 gives a 10 the last two??? or a 12 gives a 10 the last 3????

I mean those are pretty big spots,,,,, unless a 11, isnt a run out player???

is this a barbox tourny of 9ft tourny???

If you were a "13" what does that equal as far as being a B/B+ player???

Cuz giving up the last 2 or 3 or 4, is alot expecially if your not a run out player
Click to expand...

I am a no BS, middle of the road, APA 8, which makes me a 13 in the tournies where they go by that system. What does that make me? B- maybe?

Yes, I want to get better and become a strong 9, and someday a tough as nails A player or better.

I get out sometimes sure, but not all the time. And in races to four (three on the loser's side!) on 8-footers, it IS a lot to give up.


Mowem down said:
Not laughing at you but that is funny, give the guy the last 4 my god. I have to say it wouldnt be that big of a deal to me Im sure when I asked the guy "are you out of your fing mind" that would end my invite to his turnys but that is what would be said, that is fing insane. I would play alot of people given the last 4. you should ask " do you want me too toss in the break so we make sure its a fair game" Thats harsh, good luck ( as much as I hate that saying in pool) sounds like your going to need it..
Click to expand...

I know. The guy I am talking about is THRILLED to play me heads up. I think I'm like 4-7 playing even. I probably need something, a game here or there or the breaks or something to play him serious. But in this TD's little pond, I get to give up the last four. :thumbup: The game is almost FIVE BALLS out of line. :eek:


Shortside K said:
let me get this straight...

You win a "big" tournament and the TD raises your ranking. Sounds O.K.

A little while later, you win another "big" tournament at your new higher ranking. Good for you. Your ranking is again raised.

Now you feel that your ranking is too high and that you can't win.
The latest ranking increase isn't something that great and you just won with a ranking slightly lower.

You complain about someone else who supposedly is better than you, but has had no success in the tournaments. His ranking has been lowered. Sounds about right to me. You're winning the tournaments and complaining about the ranking of someone who is not winning anything.

No pity coming your way from me.

Sounds like you like to be one of the sandbaggers that want to win without having to work too hard.

Play at your new ranking and time will tell if its too high. Your post suggests that if a person has poor performance for a period of time, his ranking is lowered.
Click to expand...

Points well taken, and I am guessing that's how the TD feels.

My point, which I guess you missed, was that the TD as roughly a 4 in APA, doesn't know enough about pool, or what he's seeing to handicap players, as evidenced by him moving a guy down who has a winning record against me heads up. He's made enough moves to both our handicaps, that when we play in the tournament I GIVE UP the last four, making things a stone, mortal LOCK, while when we play in power league, HE SPOTS ME and it's a coin flip.

If it was a minor move, or a single mistake, like me having to give up the last 2, ok. Blame rolls, better play one place over another, maybe a better streak of pressure play or whatever. But the last four? That's hard to fade as an honest mistake from anyone who know's what they're doing.

And do you move a known skill level DOWN just because he gags some money balls? Do you reward choking? Maybe he's sandbagging and picking his time to cash in.

In the "big tournament" I was one of three 13's out of about 60 players. There was one 14 who went out early (races to 4 and 3 can be brutal). I played one of the 13's in the Winner's semi, and we went hill - hill and down to a scratch on the 7 ball. That guy came back through to get 3rd. The other one was this APA 9 I keep referencing. He choked in an early match but still cashed, at like 7th I think. But he has won as many of the small ones as I have.

As stated above I WANT TO IMPROVE. I am trying to improve. But when a local TD tweaks the handicaps to protect, reward or punish on something other than player skill level, it starts to stink like the fix is in.

I cashed in ONE tournament out of six played when he moved me up to a "14". It was a small, $10 weekly, NOT the next "BIG ONE" as if I was "cherry picking". It had 13 players in it, and I was the highest rated player there. Not what I would call a stellar performance, or proof that I am a pro, sandbagging for $60 on the weekend.

I'm not a sandbagger. I play as a "13" in other rooms and don't even cash!!! How could I be 'bagging as a 15 in this one?

This was not a "my easy action dried up, they found me out" thread.

Think it through.
 
Just an update, after more than a year.

I quit pool for Law School recently.

But about a month before that, this same ignorant TD ran another "big one". I had been playing as a "14" for some time, and had not cashed in 6 consecutive tournaments.

As a subtle invitation to NOT attend the big party, he arbitrarily moved me up to a "15" in the week before the big one.

I took up his challenge, prepared hard, and played well. I have been working hard on my game, especially my break, and shot selection. As a result, I ended up splitting 1st / 2nd with a guy, and he's the only match I lost.

In contrast to my earlier performance:

I broke and ran at least one rack every set

I had each opponent "on two fouls" at least once" and with the exception of the hill-hill "king of the hill" loss, when I got to the hill, my opponent never shot at a ball again. Either I broke and ran out, snapped in the 9, or broke ran to a safety, and three fouled them.

Over all it was a nice way to go out, moved up irrationally, out of ignorance and spite, to where I was a HUGE under dog, and then shooting my way out of the trap.
 
dirtypool40 said:
Just an update, after more than a year.

I quit pool for Law School recently.

But about a month before that, this same ignorant TD ran another "big one". I had been playing as a "14" for some time, and had not cashed in 6 consecutive tournaments.

As a subtle invitation to NOT attend the big party, he arbitrarily moved me up to a "15" in the week before the big one.

I took up his challenge, prepared hard, and played well. I have been working hard on my game, especially my break, and shot selection. As a result, I ended up splitting 1st / 2nd with a guy, and he's the only match I lost.

In contrast to my earlier performance:

I broke and ran at least one rack every set

I had each opponent "on two fouls" at least once" and with the exception of the hill-hill "king of the hill" loss, when I got to the hill, my opponent never shot at a ball again. Either I broke and ran out, snapped in the 9, or broke ran to a safety, and three fouled them.

Over all it was a nice way to go out, moved up irrationally, out of ignorance and spite, to where I was a HUGE under dog, and then shooting my way out of the trap.
Click to expand...

It sounds like the reasoning behind moving you up to a 15 weren't valid, but it did result with you working hard and playing like one. You still split 1st/2nd place money. I'm a little confused why you had problems not cashing the last 6 tournaments as a 14 if you were able to play that well as a 15.

Should your handicap be based on your top speed (which sounds worthy or close to a 15) or something that gives you almost a lock to cash? Do you have a better handicap method than TD? His reasoning aren't valid according to you, but it did result in close matches (from the sounds of it) which is the point of handicaps, right?
 
dirtypool40 said:
Like a lot of you, I am NOT NOT NOT a champion, or hell, even an A-player (YET!). I'm an 8 in APA "Power league".

I play in several local weekly handicapped tournaments.

For some reason, the time tested method of rating someone a 2-9 LIKE THEIR LEAGUE HANDICAP makes WAY too much sense, so locally several of them go from like 10-15 instead. I know, whatever, not the point.

Anyway, so there's this little series at a local room, play a dozen tournies and you can play the "big one". $10 normally, $20 "big one" with mo' money.

They spot balls. 11 give a 10 the last 2, 12 gives 10 the last 3 and so on.

I play in like 15 tournaments, and enter the "big one" as a 13. I am a 13 at other rooms and don't even cash. I'm kind of a "soft" 13 / APA 8, but I am trying.

Anyway, so I win the big one. Races to 4 the whole day, I go double hill 4 of 7 sets. Those are coin flips!!! Didn't break and run a single rack the whole day.

So I won, they move me up to a 14 the next week. I play about 6 more tournaments and win another one, scrapping for every game.

Someone who has the TD's ear, is whining, and... you guessed it, they move me up again. Now I'm a 15 and have no chance of winning a match let alone cashing.

A guy I played head's up and had a losing record against got moved down, because he didn't do well in the big one, and is such a nice player.

So now, by their twisted logic, he's a 12 and I'm a 15. I have to give this guy the last 4!!!

Here's the kicker, in "Power League" where handicaps are determined by something other than TD whim, this guy SPOTS ME A GAME!!! :thumbup:

And he wonders why the tournaments have dwindled to nothing and one died all together.

Nice going!!

The guy's not a bad guy, he just doesn't know pool or have any idea why someone is winning or what separates players.
Click to expand...

all that league talk is really confusing. i like leagues. they're competitive and fun wrapped up in an organized package. what i don't get is how you can rate 2 players that close and think that 1 player can or should give the other player the last 3 or even the last 4.

that's a huge fu*cking spot. if you're looking at firepower alone and if both players just get to the table and try to run out then it might work. but for some reason if the weaker player uses his brain and starts tying balls up then he's the automatic favor every time.

if the weaker player ties balls up and play safe the right way then giving up the last 4 is like pissing in the wind.
 
upprc04 said:
It sounds like the reasoning behind moving you up to a 15 weren't valid, but it did result with you working hard and playing like one. You still split 1st/2nd place money. I'm a little confused why you had problems not cashing the last 6 tournaments as a 14 if you were able to play that well as a 15.

Should your handicap be based on your top speed (which sounds worthy or close to a 15) or something that gives you almost a lock to cash? Do you have a better handicap method than TD? His reasoning aren't valid according to you, but it did result in close matches (from the sounds of it) which is the point of handicaps, right?
Click to expand...

HIS reasoning is based more on recent performance, than skill level. He can't gauge skill level, so he always pulls up your recent finishes. If there were only 11 players in a tournament, and you go out in three matches, he still says "you won.... uh...... 7th place". :thumbup:

I am happy it caused me to take the bit between my teeth, and break through a little, but based on "recent" tournament performance, covering maybe 10 weeks, I was not even a competitive 14, let alone one who was expected to win as a 14.

The move to 15 was just a "spite ****".

Lastly, on small, easy tables, I might have finished the same as a 14, or a 14. In my estimation, my finish was more about playing "controlled" and shooting smart shots for a short race tournament, than it was about playing "great" pool.

I DID play better than a year ago, and was thrilled to respond to this *****'s raw move with good play.

not sure if that answered your question.
 
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