Back hand english?

3

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe it's just camera angle distortion...

Rather than set up center ball aiming, and final stroke across the cb, inside or outside the original stroke line...

it looks like they may be setting up with a parallel english (inside or outside english)stroking line, then on final stroke, hit center ball..

Is this another method, or am I mistaking what I think I'm seeing based on the streaming camera possible viewing distortion ?

thanks
 
3RAILKICK said:
Maybe it's just camera angle distortion...

Rather than set up center ball aiming, and final stroke across the cb, inside or outside the original stroke line...

it looks like they may be setting up with a parallel english (inside or outside english)stroking line, then on final stroke, hit center ball..

Is this another method, or am I mistaking what I think I'm seeing based on the streaming camera possible viewing distortion ?

thanks
Click to expand...

I would not trust anything that you think you are seeing from televised, video, or streaming events regarding setup. Aiming and setup are very specific. I have found that it's close to impossible to show the player's setup without some sort of distortion, either from the camera lens or camera angle.
 
Front Hand vs Back Hand English

Front Hand English: With low deflection shafts you can aim the shot with center cue ball as if you were shooting with no English and then move your stick parallel left/right to the desired English. You will notice with this you are still parallel to the original aim line due to how the Low Deflection shoots straight

Back Hand English: If you took a normal deflection shaft and tried the aiming above you will most likely miss the ball completely. I've teach players to determine how much their cue deflects and then find the pivot point. Using a certain distance of a bridge hand - lined up center ball to your target (as if not using any English) and then pivot your back hand left or right so the tip moves right or left for the desired English. The way to test this is by trying to do stop shots with left or right English. If the ball is deflecting too much (Left English and your hitting the OB on the right side) then you can lengthen your bridge slightly, and if its not deflecting that much (Left English and your hitting the left side of the object ball) then you shorten your bridge slightly. Finding this pivot point is just finding a consistent way of predicting the amount of deflection and adjusting for it with pivot.

I've heard of but I have not seen players starting at center ball and then getting English on the final stroke by stroking off line on the cue ball. I'm not sure how this could be predictable or consistent.
 
FHE is actually moving or rolling your bridge hand slightly left or right to compensate for deflection. The stick is not parallel to the line of aim, it is still angled just as with BHE.

FHE tends to work well for low deflection shafts, using BHE can require an abnormally long bridge to correctly utilize the shaft's natural pivot point, especially on the lowest deflection shafts like Z2, OB2, etc.

Parallel may work at slower speeds and when close to the OB with low deflection shafts, but most people I know who swear they are using parallel english are actually angled a bit when they shift over, that makes all the difference in the world...

Scott
 
RWOJO said:
Front Hand English: With low deflection shafts you can aim the shot with center cue ball as if you were shooting with no English and then move your stick parallel left/right to the desired English. You will notice with this you are still parallel to the original aim line due to how the Low Deflection shoots straight

Back Hand English: If you took a normal deflection shaft and tried the aiming above you will most likely miss the ball completely. I've teach players to determine how much their cue deflects and then find the pivot point. Using a certain distance of a bridge hand - lined up center ball to your target (as if not using any English) and then pivot your back hand left or right so the tip moves right or left for the desired English. The way to test this is by trying to do stop shots with left or right English. If the ball is deflecting too much (Left English and your hitting the OB on the right side) then you can lengthen your bridge slightly, and if its not deflecting that much (Left English and your hitting the left side of the object ball) then you shorten your bridge slightly. Finding this pivot point is just finding a consistent way of predicting the amount of deflection and adjusting for it with pivot.

I've heard of but I have not seen players starting at center ball and then getting English on the final stroke by stroking off line on the cue ball. I'm not sure how this could be predictable or consistent.
Click to expand...

How is this answer relevant to the OP's question?
 
scottjen26 said:
FHE is actually moving or rolling your bridge hand slightly left or right to compensate for deflection. The stick is not parallel to the line of aim, it is still angled just as with BHE.

FHE tends to work well for low deflection shafts, using BHE can require an abnormally long bridge to correctly utilize the shaft's natural pivot point, especially on the lowest deflection shafts like Z2, OB2, etc.

Parallel may work at slower speeds and when close to the OB with low deflection shafts, but most people I know who swear they are using parallel english are actually angled a bit when they shift over, that makes all the difference in the world...

Scott
Click to expand...

Wow, Thanks Scott! I have been trying to use BHE with my Z2 with mixed success. I just tried FHE and it works great! Are there any general rules for it's use. Like, works well with close to medium shots at certain speeds? I know... It all depends on stroke a million things, but I am hoping you can shorten the learning curve!
 
Joe Tucker.

CaptainDidactic said:
Wow, Thanks Scott! I have been trying to use BHE with my Z2 with mixed success. I just tried FHE and it works great! Are there any general rules for it's use. Like, works well with close to medium shots at certain speeds? I know... It all depends on stroke a million things, but I am hoping you can shorten the learning curve!
Click to expand...
If you have not seen these videos, I recommend you watch them. Joe T. does a great job of describing cue ball squirt and how to correctly apply side spin to compensate for the effects of squirt. http://joetucker.net/side_spin_workouts.htm
 
My outcome is to completely take the "undercut" out of the equation

My reference point on the cue ball is always slightly inside (TOI), then I sometimes move the tip to center. This simply gives me a reference that's on the same side of the cue ball that's going to contact the object ball.....after the initial "tip targeting" I'm free to move the tip to center if I choose....TOI is about "touch" so I do this instinctively.

My outcome is to completely take the "undercut" out of the equation and favoring the inside will do this effectively. From this reference point you can move to center or even to the outside - for me, using this technique the deflection/spin will not undercut the object ball like it will using center as the initial reference point on the cueball.


3RAILKICK said:
Maybe it's just camera angle distortion...

Rather than set up center ball aiming, and final stroke across the cb, inside or outside the original stroke line...

it looks like they may be setting up with a parallel english (inside or outside english)stroking line, then on final stroke, hit center ball..

Is this another method, or am I mistaking what I think I'm seeing based on the streaming camera possible viewing distortion ?

thanks
Click to expand...
 
Personal lessons will shorten the learning curve.

CaptainDidactic said:
Thanks BigC! I just watched Joe's videos and will have to go to the table and work on it. Any hints on shortening the learning curve?
Click to expand...
Just like the title says. Don't waste your money on magic cues. Spend your money where it will do the most good for your game. And that's money well spent.
 
When you offset and pivot to center, it's a ball pocketing method, not an english method.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
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