Backhand English

[drivermaker]

Drivermaker,
I've only tried BE a few times and I figure it can work, at least ok with some practice.

I have a couple of questions though.

1. How to you adjust for harder and softer paced shots?
2. Do you need to adjust if you hit with different amounts of side?
3. How to you adjust if you're forced to elevate the cue? eg. Higher bridge over balls.

1. There are more ways than one to apply it. You just have to know what works best under different circumstances. Like everything else, you learn to just apply it and not think much.

2. You don't need a lot of side or offset to get the job done. Most everyone either over uses english on every shot or uses too much offset and spin. You can use just a little but still get a lot of action based on the type of stroke and force.

3. My adjustment for being jacked up over a ball is to not use ANYTHING. The priority is to make the OB and try to get position with speed and follow as good as I can. Otherwise, your chances of missing the shot increase.

4. BHE is not some kind of violent move that has the cue moving all over hell.
It's just very subtle. Maybe you need THEONE to show you some tricks.

 

[Guru]

... Here is a shot that can not be achieve which otherwise would not be attainable. A good foolow through would achieve similar, but not as good.

uhm, what?

 

[CaptainJR]

If their stroke is always straight, they can't be using backhand english, can they?
unknownpro

Yes, you can. You just set up that way and stoke straight and hit the ball. You seem to be thinking of BE as something that is only done on the final stroke and that can be done but is very difficult. I come down into position set up the way I want to stoke the ball. But to explain, set up to center ball, then move your back hand a little left or right. Now notice the new point on the cue ball your tip is at. Now stroke straight back and forth at that spot. You are now using BE with a straight stoke.

 

[vapoolplayer]

If their stroke is always straight, they can't be using backhand english, can they?



unknownpro

except for the extreme cases (josh brothers, bustamante) it is VERY hard to tell when someone is using BHE.

BTW, its still a straight stroke. its just not parrellel.

VAP

 

[ScottR]

except for the extreme cases (josh brothers, bustamante) it is VERY hard to tell when someone is using BHE.

BTW, its still a straight stroke. its just not parrellel.

VAP

Thank you! That's the key I have been missing. I kept imagining this subtle parabola-shaped stroke. Dohhhhhh.

 

[Guru]

How is the use of Backhand English affected by those folks using Predator shafts, and the like?

 

[pete lafond]

uhm, what?

Didn't say as good effect as bhe, but a good stroke with lots of soft follow through will result in some very good effects when needed. -All I was saying. Take a look at the shot below. You can make the 8 ball in the side without touching a rail. Stroke through the ball with low left english dead straight (not to draw the ball).

START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%E^8F1%FK6P1%GK6N8%H`1F1%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pi1F3%W\6D3%X^4E6
)END

Once you can make this shot (unless you already can) it is the same stroke when applying left or right english to affect greater english on the cueball. Again not as extreme as gne, but very effective.

 

[mikepage]

How is the use of Backhand English affected by those folks using Predator shafts, and the like?

I can answer this.

Such people lose a lot.

And you shhould keep an eye on them as they may become suidical.

mike page
fargo

 

[Egg McDogit]

How is the use of Backhand English affected by those folks using Predator shafts, and the like?

I have a predator and do it. On most shots with english I just stroke the ball. but I have a habit of curving my tip off the cueball when I need to shoot soft with outside. It works fine for me..

 

[BRKNRUN]

dm, I didn't say don't use BE. I use it all the time. I said, applying it by moving the back hand only on the last stoke is vary difficult.

I don't think the tuck/roll/swoop/swip method is any harder than the aim and pivot method.....They are both really simple.....all you need to do is keep your bridge hand stable.

In fact...My personal opinion is BHE is easier and more consistent than parallel english.

I think BHE has more of a "glancing" effect on the CB and thats why you get more english while staying closer to center on the CB.

With BHE you get to aim is if its just a center CB shot, and if you have a aiming system that is accurate (whatever system you use), you "know" that your aimed correctly. The BHE part takes no aiming at all and no guesswork.....its automatic...pivot and shoot....or tuck and roll....simple

With Parallel you have to rely on experience and guesstimate how much deflection / squirt / throw your going to get.

The advantages in my eyes are clear.

You get to use a center CB aim
You get to stay closer to center on the CB when you do have to apply english
There is no guestimation, just pivot and shoot.

 

[wayne]

Alot of players say that backhand english (also known as nip/tuck) is the best, but I don't understand why it works if you are lining up center ball and swerving your tip to the side on the final stroke. Who here uses it and what is your opinion on this?

It can be a very useful too. However, I believe swerving your tip on the final stroke is a different type of English (I believe the Filipinos call it something like "caribou"). Backhand English the way I use it you just get your centerball aim and swerve depending on how much English you want and where you want to play position to and then take your strokes (in other words it has nothing to do with final stroke).

The places I use it most are on certain straight in shots where I can follow using backhand English and get position just about anywhere on the table (I don't know any other way to do this as effectively). Also, in one pocket there is a 3 rail shot for position that is made super easy using backhand English, it can be done with parallel English but requires a lot more stroke and is simply not as effective.

I love the Hal Houle system although I have never been taught it but I have played a few good players who swear by it. It gives them incredible confidence in their abilities and because of this they are willing to bet it up. As a result I have made thousands of dollars playing disciples of Hal who figured they couldn't lose LOL.

Wayne

 

[wayne]

I think you've been hanging around too many Beverly Hills people like Wayne and Tate that have money. Nip/Tuck is what they get on a monthly basis for their face, stomach, ass, and other areas. You pay table time in a pool room...their table time costs more because it's how much time they spend on their plastic surgeons table.

It's tuck/roll. I use it and it works great. But, who said you're lining up center ball at all times to do it? Does it look like Efren and Busta are EVER lining up center ball?

The reason you are having trouble lining up center ball is because of your high heels, it is throwing your balance off. Also, you are not getting enough stroke because your skirt keeps getting in the way.

Wayne

 

[drivermaker]

The reason you are having trouble lining up center ball is because of your high heels, it is throwing your balance off. Also, you are not getting enough stroke because your skirt keeps getting in the way.

Wayne

I never had problems hitting center ball or any other part of it, even with high heels. But I know about all the kinky stuff you LA boys are into. What color panties are you wearing under your pants tonight?

 

[Jal]

In fact...My personal opinion is BHE is easier and more consistent than parallel english.

It is if the pivot point of the stick is near your bridge hand. Otherwise a combination of parallel and backhand is needed if you want the cueball to take off in the same direction as if you had hit it centerball.

I think BHE has more of a "glancing" effect on the CB and that's why you get more english while staying closer to center on the CB.

BHE gives you more of an effective offset of the same contact point if you measure it with respect to the new (pivoted) aiming line, so in that sense you do get more spin. But you don't get anymore than if you used the parallel method to hit at the same offset (but different contact point). So, for instance, you can't get any greater maximum sidespin with BHE than with parallel. You'll miscue trying.

...
You get to use a center CB aim
You get to stay closer to center on the CB when you do have to apply english
There is no guestimation, just pivot and shoot.

For what it's worth (nothin I'm sure) I pretty much agree except that you have to have a cue with a pretty close pivot point.

Jim

 

[unknownpro]

Yes, you can. You just set up that way and stoke straight and hit the ball. You seem to be thinking of BE as something that is only done on the final stroke and that can be done but is very difficult. I come down into position set up the way I want to stoke the ball. But to explain, set up to center ball, then move your back hand a little left or right. Now notice the new point on the cue ball your tip is at. Now stroke straight back and forth at that spot. You are now using BE with a straight stoke.

I realized what you are saying here after I made my post and read it back. I was referring to those who twist on their final stroke, instead of pivoting and then stroking straight, which to me is not backhand english, it's just a different way to line up your shot.

To me, none of the 3 ways listed before for applying english are correct. Parallel doesn't work. Your whole line is changed when using english. I always stroke to apply maximum deflection and zero curve whenever I use any english, so there is no compensation for distance.

unknownpro

 

[onepocketchump]

It can be a very useful too. However, I believe swerving your tip on the final stroke is a different type of English (I believe the Filipinos call it something like "caribou"). Backhand English the way I use it you just get your centerball aim and swerve depending on how much English you want and where you want to play position to and then take your strokes (in other words it has nothing to do with final stroke).

The places I use it most are on certain straight in shots where I can follow using backhand English and get position just about anywhere on the table (I don't know any other way to do this as effectively). Also, in one pocket there is a 3 rail shot for position that is made super easy using backhand English, it can be done with parallel English but requires a lot more stroke and is simply not as effective.

I love the Hal Houle system although I have never been taught it but I have played a few good players who swear by it. It gives them incredible confidence in their abilities and because of this they are willing to bet it up. As a result I have made thousands of dollars playing disciples of Hal who figured they couldn't lose LOL.

Wayne

There is no one Houle system. I do have someone who uses the same systems that Hal teaches who will BET REAL HIGH if you want to match up.

Now that you pumped up from the other guys you can test out whether a real PLAYER who uses the ball-to-ball aiming systems is such an easy mark.

As for the other guys you beat - well, it's not enough to be able to aim if you can't move...

John

 

[onepocketchump]

Nice try, but they're never going to believe you.

I don't care. This was just more validation for me that Hal isn't full of shit. (although I already knew that) I was relating my experience. This player is also very helpful to anyone who asks him.

He is a stone cold killer when playing for money and a super nice guy when not.

I know that he is not well known yet nationally, although his name has been mentioned recently. If someone else figures out who I am talking about then I'll confirm it.

John

 

[CaptainJR]

I always stroke to apply maximum deflection and zero curve whenever I use any english, so there is no compensation for distance.
unknownpro

OK, You got my attention. I want more!

 

[BRKNRUN]

It can be a very useful too. However, I believe swerving your tip on the final stroke is a different type of English (I believe the Filipinos call it something like "caribou"). Backhand English the way I use it you just get your centerball aim and swerve depending on how much English you want and where you want to play position to and then take your strokes (in other words it has nothing to do with final stroke).

The places I use it most are on certain straight in shots where I can follow using backhand English and get position just about anywhere on the table (I don't know any other way to do this as effectively). Also, in one pocket there is a 3 rail shot for position that is made super easy using backhand English, it can be done with parallel English but requires a lot more stroke and is simply not as effective.

I love the Hal Houle system although I have never been taught it but I have played a few good players who swear by it. It gives them incredible confidence in their abilities and because of this they are willing to bet it up. As a result I have made thousands of dollars playing disciples of Hal who figured they couldn't lose LOL.

Wayne

I agree that what Hal teaches does give you confidence in your aim. Does it make me want to jump up and donate thousands to a world beater like yourself.....I think not..... ...perhaps in another year or two....you never know...

A lot of people seem to skoff at Hal's systems...partially because he is a no nonsense individual that does not put up with crap, is probably a little set in his ways and comes off on print as a little hard lined...

I wonder though...If the systems he teaches for free had been used by someone famous like Ralph Greenleaf, How many people would be beating down his door to find them out????

Personally, I would not mind one bit of no one els ever called him to learn his systems.....

 

[Snapshot9]

Well slap my knee and call me Betty ...

I have been playing 43 years and have never heard
the terms you guys refer to, most players just make
up their own descriptions for a shot they do ...

And haven't you guys ever heard that the shortest
distance between 2 points is a 'straight line'? If you
cue the cue ball properly to begin with, there is no
need to swerve your cue one way or the other.

Backhand english? Is that where you put the cue
behind your back to shoot .... lol