Backing Out Bent 3/8-10

CamposCues

CamposCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a guy who brought in a McDermott that he slammed shaft first. He shattered the shaft and bent the pin pretty good.

I tried heating it up with a mini torch (hot enough to leave thread burns on my fingers...oops) and backing it out with no luck. It wasn't even about to budge.

Any other ideas?
 
Backing out bent pin

In order to break the glue bond holding in the pin you need to heat it beyond what I would be willing to touch with my fingers. I use a pair of pliers.

The problem is heating just enough to break the bond without affecting the joint material and/or finish. Try wrapping the joint with a towel moistened with cold water, heat the pin a little more than you did the last time and grip the pin with a pair of pliers or vise grips.
 
Chris Byrne did that to my old D-series McDermott, and installed a stainless steel radial pin. I think he heated it up pretty good. He put in the radial and made a new shaft for it. What a great playing cue now
 
Your job would be a lot easier if you just straighten the pin. There's no need to remove it. Though, now that it's been heated, I don't know that I'd trust the integrity of the bond.
 
Pin

I should have explained better. I put a rag around the joint of the cue and heated the pin with a small soldering torch till it just started to glow a little. I didn't try to twist it out with my fingers. I tried with vice grips and I torked pretty hard. The joint would have broken off before the pin would turn. I'm pretty strong. After about a minute of trying that I released the vice grips and accidntally touched the pin with the side of my finger. At that point it was still hot enough to melt a few threads worth into my finger. Now I know what cows and college football players feel like;)

I tried staightening it with the cue chucked up using my tool post but I only have a cuesmith and I don't think it had it in it. I couldn't figure any way to put enough pressure on it without harming the cue or finish.
 
CamposCues said:
I have a guy who brought in a McDermott that he slammed shaft first. He shattered the shaft and bent the pin pretty good.

I tried heating it up with a mini torch (hot enough to leave thread burns on my fingers...oops) and backing it out with no luck. It wasn't even about to budge.

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...

Heat it with a torch, and when you can see smoke come from where the pin meets wood, put the cue pin in a vise cue butt going straight up. Then put some butt into it, sometimes when a cue is damaged this way the pin will bind in the old threads. This method will give you the leverage needed to back it out. But, I have also found that when the pin binds there is internal damage. First the new pin will most likely not go in straight, and second the forearm could be cracked inside from the threads out.

The best way to correct the problem is to core and plug the forearm, and then bore and install a new pin. This way the epoxy will secure any cracks that can not be seen.

Hope this helps
 
Last edited:
masonh said:
sounds like you didn't get it hot enough.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, McDermott's can be tough. I tried to change a bent McDermott pin a couple weeks ago that turned into a nightmare. I heated the pin 4 or five times trying to loosen the glue with no success. I then started heating the pin to cherry red and letting heat flow back for a couple of minutes with no success. After heating the pin cherry red at least 12 times and it still not budging, I turned the pin down to near the joint and tried drilling out but the drill would wander and it had me worried that it would crack the prong so I ended up taking a 1/2 inch end mill and milling the old pin out then boring the hole straight and clean, doweling the hole, putting on a new joint and deco-ring, a pin and refinishing the cue all for 25.00. Some times you win and sometimes you lose.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
Sometimes, McDermott's can be tough. I tried to change a bent McDermott pin a couple weeks ago that turned into a nightmare. I heated the pin 4 or five times trying to loosen the glue with no success. I then started heating the pin to cherry red and letting heat flow back for a couple of minutes with no success. After heating the pin cherry red at least 12 times and it still not budging, I turned the pin down to near the joint and tried drilling out but the drill would wander and it had me worried that it would crack the prong so I ended up taking a 1/2 inch end mill and milling the old pin out then boring the hole straight and clean, doweling the hole, putting on a new joint and deco-ring, a pin and refinishing the cue all for 25.00. Some times you win and sometimes you lose.

Dick
Click to expand...


Some times you win and sometimes you lose.

Nothing can be more true, the above is also the only way to treat a customer!!!;)
 
rhncue said:
Sometimes, McDermott's can be tough. I tried to change a bent McDermott pin a couple weeks ago that turned into a nightmare. I heated the pin 4 or five times trying to loosen the glue with no success. I then started heating the pin to cherry red and letting heat flow back for a couple of minutes with no success. After heating the pin cherry red at least 12 times and it still not budging, I turned the pin down to near the joint and tried drilling out but the drill would wander and it had me worried that it would crack the prong so I ended up taking a 1/2 inch end mill and milling the old pin out then boring the hole straight and clean, doweling the hole, putting on a new joint and deco-ring, a pin and refinishing the cue all for 25.00. Some times you win and sometimes you lose.

Dick
Click to expand...
That is exactly what happened to me about 6 months ago
 
You're a very generous man Dick. I'd say that this gives testament to your reputation and your longevity in the business. Imagine that, Pro cue repair at a reasonable price. What will they come up with next.
 
My Fear

rhncue said:
Sometimes, McDermott's can be tough. I tried to change a bent McDermott pin a couple weeks ago that turned into a nightmare. I heated the pin 4 or five times trying to loosen the glue with no success. I then started heating the pin to cherry red and letting heat flow back for a couple of minutes with no success. After heating the pin cherry red at least 12 times and it still not budging, I turned the pin down to near the joint and tried drilling out but the drill would wander and it had me worried that it would crack the prong so I ended up taking a 1/2 inch end mill and milling the old pin out then boring the hole straight and clean, doweling the hole, putting on a new joint and deco-ring, a pin and refinishing the cue all for 25.00. Some times you win and sometimes you lose.

Dick
Click to expand...

This is my fear. I've removed a few pins and never had any trouble. I think I may tell the guy I tried but am not comfortable going any farther. He may have to send it back to McDermott or something. I don't want to destroy the cue. I suppose he'll think twice about swash buckling with his cue next time.
 
Since this is somewhat relevant to this thread, I'd like to take the opportunity to share one of my findings. This has been sitting on my desktop for a while for the right moment to post.
While using the heat method for removing a pin/insert has for a long time been popular, in certain instances it can bring some unpleasant results. This applies to 2nd Gen. Predator shafts or any shaft or handle that has the pin/insert set directly in to phenolic.

PREDATOR SHAFT WARNING
I feel that I need to extend a warning to my fellow tradesmen regarding the removal of the shaft insert from a Predator shaft when using the heat method, particularly those shafts that have the insert set in phenolic. The heat necessary to soften the epoxy (250 degrees) that is bonding the insert will have adverse effects on the phenolic mtrl. that is surrounding the insert. I believe that the phenolic is expanding at that temp. and is splitting the mating seams of the 10 pie splice segments. This occurs only in the first 1" of the shaft, the area of the insert. And this has only happened on Predator shafts with no ringwork (SPs). This has happened to me twice in the past 2 mos., the first time was apparently not a fluke. I should say that this is not a case of beginner's (bad)luck as I have removed literaly 100s of inserts from a wide variety shafts over a period of almost 20 yrs. using the heat method. While I know that I subject myself to the 'TEE HEEs' & 'HA HAs' of those that pretend to know better, my purpose for this writing is to share this experience in an attempt to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar outcome.
This is clearly an instance in which the insert should be removed by boring it out. Please heed this warning. I know that I can't afford to eat any more high-dollar shafts.
 
KJ Cues said:
Since this is somewhat relevant to this thread, I'd like to take the opportunity to share one of my findings. This has been sitting on my desktop for a while for the right moment to post.
While using the heat method for removing a pin/insert has for a long time been popular, in certain instances it can bring some unpleasant results. This applies to 2nd Gen. Predator shafts or any shaft or handle that has the pin/insert set directly in to phenolic.

PREDATOR SHAFT WARNING
I feel that I need to extend a warning to my fellow tradesmen regarding the removal of the shaft insert from a Predator shaft when using the heat method, particularly those shafts that have the insert set in phenolic. The heat necessary to soften the epoxy (250 degrees) that is bonding the insert will have adverse effects on the phenolic mtrl. that is surrounding the insert. I believe that the phenolic is expanding at that temp. and is splitting the mating seams of the 10 pie splice segments. This occurs only in the first 1" of the shaft, the area of the insert. And this has only happened on Predator shafts with no ringwork (SPs). This has happened to me twice in the past 2 mos., the first time was apparently not a fluke. I should say that this is not a case of beginner's (bad)luck as I have removed literaly 100s of inserts from a wide variety shafts over a period of almost 20 yrs. using the heat method. While I know that I subject myself to the 'TEE HEEs' & 'HA HAs' of those that pretend to know better, my purpose for this writing is to share this experience in an attempt to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar outcome.
This is clearly an instance in which the insert should be removed by boring it out. Please heed this warning. I know that I can't afford to eat any more high-dollar shafts.
Click to expand...
I bore out all inserts and core them with phenolic or wood...
 
Thanks for the heads up KJ

Jason
KJ Cues said:
Since this is somewhat relevant to this thread, I'd like to take the opportunity to share one of my findings. This has been sitting on my desktop for a while for the right moment to post.
While using the heat method for removing a pin/insert has for a long time been popular, in certain instances it can bring some unpleasant results. This applies to 2nd Gen. Predator shafts or any shaft or handle that has the pin/insert set directly in to phenolic.

PREDATOR SHAFT WARNING
I feel that I need to extend a warning to my fellow tradesmen regarding the removal of the shaft insert from a Predator shaft when using the heat method, particularly those shafts that have the insert set in phenolic. The heat necessary to soften the epoxy (250 degrees) that is bonding the insert will have adverse effects on the phenolic mtrl. that is surrounding the insert. I believe that the phenolic is expanding at that temp. and is splitting the mating seams of the 10 pie splice segments. This occurs only in the first 1" of the shaft, the area of the insert. And this has only happened on Predator shafts with no ringwork (SPs). This has happened to me twice in the past 2 mos., the first time was apparently not a fluke. I should say that this is not a case of beginner's (bad)luck as I have removed literaly 100s of inserts from a wide variety shafts over a period of almost 20 yrs. using the heat method. While I know that I subject myself to the 'TEE HEEs' & 'HA HAs' of those that pretend to know better, my purpose for this writing is to share this experience in an attempt to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar outcome.
This is clearly an instance in which the insert should be removed by boring it out. Please heed this warning. I know that I can't afford to eat any more high-dollar shafts.
Click to expand...
 
CamposCues said:
I have a guy who brought in a McDermott that he slammed shaft first. He shattered the shaft and bent the pin pretty good.

I tried heating it up with a mini torch (hot enough to leave thread burns on my fingers...oops) and backing it out with no luck. It wasn't even about to budge.

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...
The last one I did had an aluminum pin in it. I tried heating it to back it out but it just tore the threads up when trying to back it out. I just parted it off at the joint and used a boring bar to remove it.
If the heat does not work you can drill it out, I recomend reverse drill bits for doing this job. Sometimes the heat from drilling will loosen the glue and the pin backs it's self out for you. Chris.
 
Chris Byrne said:
The last one I did had an aluminum pin in it. I tried heating it to back it out but it just tore the threads up when trying to back it out. I just parted it off at the joint and used a boring bar to remove it.
If the heat does not work you can drill it out, I recomend reverse drill bits for doing this job. Sometimes the heat from drilling will loosen the glue and the pin backs it's self out for you. Chris.
Click to expand...

Chris

Are you doing any repairs before you go to VF. such as tips and shaft stuff?

Ted
 
KJ Cues said:
Since this is somewhat relevant to this thread, I'd like to take the opportunity to share one of my findings. This has been sitting on my desktop for a while for the right moment to post.
While using the heat method for removing a pin/insert has for a long time been popular, in certain instances it can bring some unpleasant results. This applies to 2nd Gen. Predator shafts or any shaft or handle that has the pin/insert set directly in to phenolic.

PREDATOR SHAFT WARNING
I feel that I need to extend a warning to my fellow tradesmen regarding the removal of the shaft insert from a Predator shaft when using the heat method, particularly those shafts that have the insert set in phenolic. The heat necessary to soften the epoxy (250 degrees) that is bonding the insert will have adverse effects on the phenolic mtrl. that is surrounding the insert. I believe that the phenolic is expanding at that temp. and is splitting the mating seams of the 10 pie splice segments. This occurs only in the first 1" of the shaft, the area of the insert. And this has only happened on Predator shafts with no ringwork (SPs). This has happened to me twice in the past 2 mos., the first time was apparently not a fluke. I should say that this is not a case of beginner's (bad)luck as I have removed literaly 100s of inserts from a wide variety shafts over a period of almost 20 yrs. using the heat method. While I know that I subject myself to the 'TEE HEEs' & 'HA HAs' of those that pretend to know better, my purpose for this writing is to share this experience in an attempt to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar outcome.
This is clearly an instance in which the insert should be removed by boring it out. Please heed this warning. I know that I can't afford to eat any more high-dollar shafts.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information, I am always willing to listen, there are no 'TEE HEEs' & 'HA HAs' here. Only a fool will pay no attention when some one offers free information like you have above. I wish it would happen more often on this site.

Thanks Craig
 
CamposCues said:
I have a guy who brought in a McDermott that he slammed shaft first. He shattered the shaft and bent the pin pretty good.

I tried heating it up with a mini torch (hot enough to leave thread burns on my fingers...oops) and backing it out with no luck. It wasn't even about to budge.

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...


There have been joint pin extractions that have taken two seperate applications of extensive 2-3min blowtorching to break the glues integrety...

The key is: once you smell the glue then it's ready , and use vice grips to clamp down on it with !

Just be careful not to burn the rest of the cue from the inside out.... keep the flame as close to the tip of the pin as possible...



- Eddie Wheat
 
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