Bad racks, part of the game??

[Bob Jewett]

Another vote for "rack your own". It should be the standard way to play competitive pool, in my opinion, unless there is a neutral 3rd party racker.

In this case the non-racker may want to check that both back balls are touching the nine ball. I recall a Reno Sands tournament that was breaker-racks and one of the tables consistently moved the nine to the corner pocket. One of the pros who made a couple of nines on the break on that table after racking himself seemed genuinely sorry for the result.

A related story is at http://www.sfbilliards.com/onthebreak/house_rules.txt

 

[Cuebacca]

You want to talk about frustrating! I played an opponent who was way over the top in checking my racks (for my break) and was not going to be satisfied with how the balls in the back were freezing. I had to re-rack at least twice per game when I would have given that rack to anyone or accepted it from anyone.

Under the current rules, I agree this is a problem. No matter who racks, though, it's a problem. If I had the power to change the rules, I think the first rule I'd change would be to make the 9-ball not count as a win on the break. IMO, one should not be able to win the game on the break, ESPECIALLY when the 9-ball rack has the built-in flaw that it has.

 

[Cuebacca]

A related story is at http://www.sfbilliards.com/onthebreak/house_rules.txt

LOL. That rule should apply to all foot pockets on all tables.

 

[Snapshot9]

Racking

I rack within the rules always.

Half the people giving slug racks don't even know they are doing it.

When you get to a certain level, racking becomes defense.
The ones acting righteous about racking have never had an 8 pack put on them for a $1,000 or more.

The best rackers are the ones that can rack you where you get ball action, but nothing goes in.

Being able to read breaks and racks both, approaches being an art form, Just ask Corey.

 

[Dead Money]

Bla bla bla. Making a ball on the break is all 8 and 9 ball are about. Bad racks = dry breaks = me sitting my ass down = me losing games/sets. ESPECIALLY when I turn around and give them impeccable racks in which they pocket a ball nearly every break. I have yet to play on a table I can not get a great rack on. (Hah I am in a real moody mood, damn research paper.)

Also does having the head ball not frozen increase your chances of scratching? I have noticed that this might be true.

So basically what you are saying here and in your first post is if I ever draw you in a tournament I should check your racks...twice

 

[cigardave]

ESPECIALLY when I turn around and give them impeccable racks in which they pocket a ball nearly every break.

In all liklihood, if they are pocketing a ball nearly every break, you may be the reason w/o really knowing it... meaning you may be giving them racks that are beneficial to making the wing ball... and I'm not talking about giving perfect racks either.

Also does having the head ball not frozen increase your chances of scratching? I have noticed that this might be true.

I've never noticed that. The most common scratches in 9-ball are in the side pocket... or back in the corner pocket from where you are breaking... in the former case, the rebound angle of the cb off of the 1-ball is not affected by being tight to the rack... and in the latter case, if you hit whitie low enuf to scratch back in the corner pocket from where you are breaking, then having the 1-ball loose from the rack would tend to lessen the rebound energy (less mass to collide with) and thereby lessen the possibility of scratching there... rather than increasing the chances that you scratch there. You could still scratch there on a loose 9-ball... but the tendency would be to lessen the chances with a looser rack.

 

[Slider]

Lets be honest here... Most (95%) of tables around any state are crap, while its your option to insist on rerack after rerack you'll never get one how its actually supposed to be, make sure the three head balls are frozen and move on. Thinking someone racked you out of a game or a set may be a bigger more pressing issue in your game.

I agree. You can't apply perfection to imperfect conditions.

Most of the time around here, the problem is that the one ball rolls away from the other balls (and just forward of the spot) in order to be in the "break divot" in the table. This is probably a result of breaking racks that are positioned off the spot, but is also just natural table wear and tear.

My solution is to move the rack forward until the one ball is at the front slope of the divot in the table, so it is now pressing against the two balls behind it. It's the best and fastest way to get the game started, and I'd rather have this than a loose rack. (the one ball is still within the "spot" marker, it's just not at the exact center.)

Ken

 

[Slider]

Let's play, already... while we're still young.

I have had the dubious honor of playing against rack perfectionists in tournaments. One guy in particular was an eccentric character to begin with, and this carried over to his racking expectations. The tournament was "loser racks", and I couldn't rack to make him happy, so I invited him to rack for himself. This didn't exactly speed things along either, since he was also unable to put together a satisfactory rack. He tried every corner of the rack, and when that didn't work, he started trying racks from all around the room.

I guess he must have eventually found what he was looking for, because our skeletons aren't lying next to the table, but a funny thing happened. He pissed me off a little. Now, a lot of people might say that it's bad to let something like that get into your head, but for me, I always seem to concentrate a little harder, and get down a little better when I have a genuine dislike for my opponent. I just wish I could channel that determination and killer instinct at will.

Ken

 

[Cheez Dawg]

I have probably given several bad racks in tournaments, but by accident. I would never give a bad rack on purpose.

There have been (2) incidents where I felt that something rolled that I did not notice (in tournaments), and they broke like "slug" racks. In both instances, I offered to rerack and not count the break, which they both agreed to.

In both instances they broke and ran the next rack...LOL.

However, I will still offer that if I think it was my fault versus just a bad break.

I do the same thing. I HATE getting slugged, and I would never knowingly give a slug rack.

 

[I rack balls]

just out of curiosity how many times do you have to re-rack the balls (when your opponent is breaking not for yourself) for you to be satisfied with the rack?

If the player has shown me respect (good racks, at least an effort to give one) and I feel they are honorable as many times as it takes which I have done on many occasions. A few times they tell me just to leave it like it is because I am taking too long.

I was under the impression that if you had a "perfect" rack that when breaking from the side the wing ball should go in a very high percentage of the time.

I am not saying that I give people bad racks, I am saying that it seems that people who do have a big advantage especially at higher levels of play. Jasmin Ouschan just lost to Kelly Fisher 7-0, her first two breaks were dry and she was down 5-0.................

Also I wonder if the head ball is not frozen it in some way could distort your view on were the exact center of the one ball relative to the rest of the balls is and causing a slightly off center hit on the break and making scratching more likely. Just a random thought hahaa, nah that doesn't sound likely

 

[I rack balls]

I rack within the rules always.

Half the people giving slug racks don't even know they are doing it.

When you get to a certain level, racking becomes defense.
The ones acting righteous about racking have never had an 8 pack put on them for a $1,000 or more.

The best rackers are the ones that can rack you where you get ball action, but nothing goes in.

Being able to read breaks and racks both, approaches being an art form, Just ask Corey.

Nice, I agree.