Balabushka?... uhhh, Judges?

The provenance itself helps support value. What one calls the cue almost does not matter.

Personally, it is intriguing. The fact that it is so unusual makes it rare. Rare helps support value.

So, although it may not have the kind of value that a "proper" Balabushka has, certainly there are many who would be seriously interested in it. The number willing to pull the trigger would be far fewer because you really have to know what is going on here to understand.

Maybe that was the intention of the seller. If you don't know what's up then step aside and let those who do know play this one out. Maybe that was the intent.


.
 
Wannabe Detective reporting in.

There is tearout in the phenolic. The pilots look like a drunken monkey made them.

A Titlist that a master cuemaker may have been in the same zip code with does not a Balabushka make. A Titlist that a known associate of George's has should sell for more than the average Titlist, but not as much as a Bushka. The semantics and armchair sniping here are pretty ridiculous.

Congrats to him for cashing in on a repaired Titlist cue.
 
So, is that supposed to be a Brunswick joint and the wrap?

I'm trying to imagine how a Hoppe Pro could end up looking like this cue through repairs.
 
ideologist said:
Wannabe Detective reporting in.

There is tearout in the phenolic. The pilots look like a drunken monkey made them.

A Titlist that a master cuemaker may have been in the same zip code with does not a Balabushka make. A Titlist that a known associate of George's has should sell for more than the average Titlist, but not as much as a Bushka. The semantics and armchair sniping here are pretty ridiculous.

Congrats to him for cashing in on a repaired Titlist cue.
Click to expand...
The semantics are interesting if nothing else.

For example, at what point does a cue repaired by Balabushka become a cue converted by Balabushka, and at what point does that become a cue assembled by Balabushka, and at what point would that become a cue built by Balabushka.

"Repaired Titlist"

Are you saying this cue was a Tiltlist converted by someone else and then repaired by George, and not a Hoppe Pro repaired by George and again by maybe someone else like others are speculating?
 
Unless the cue has a written history no one will ever know for sure. The only potential provenance is a LOA from Pete if the buyer chooses to resell it. There is no way Pete could say for sure that George wouldnt have left the signature on the cue if someone ask him to, so that aspect is out. Maybe its a very early cue like the seller says...who knows. I bid over $3500 on it hoping that the bad publicity would scare potential buyers away lol. It was an absolute no brainer, if its a GB then great, you got it cheap and can make a little $$ and even give someone a deal on it because the only difference in that cue and his plain cues is the signature which doesnt make it extraordinary. If its not a GB youre out the cost of Petes time.

$TAKE HOR$E <~~~ stole one of Freddies pages when he wasnt looking :outtahere:
 
Mr. Mason

Hi, A few years ago I purchased 2 cues from Mr. Mason on e-bay. A Titlist and a Paradise. Both genuine, both in condition as advertised. He seems legit to me. Did not post this sooner - I generally don't like to comment on someone else's auction while underway.
 
Soooo...

OG poster here... the main concern was with the cue posted on Ebay... making the claim that it's an original "unusual" GB. Many here have posted about the details/
differences/ non-standard look of the cue.

Mr. Mason's stature notwithstanding, I'm of the opinion that it's NOT an original George Balabushka cue. It may have been repaired/worked on by GB (as a favor?) but a GB full conversion from a Titlist with the 'Hoppe' logo showing, and other details mentioned?... I think not.

I've seen and played with many GB's, and briefly owned a GB four point butt that I was going to have shafts made, but ended up trading... nothing ever looked remotely like that cue.

And the Golden Cue?.. thanks for the backstory, Cornerman!... you're one of the most well-informed members here. That must have been on the down-low, as I've talked to some serious cue collectors over the years, and I never heard of the "Golden Balabushka" Maybe the Glenns might know, or Tascarella.

May the rolls be with you:wink:
 
Runner said:
And the Golden Cue?.. thanks for the backstory, Cornerman!... you're one of the most well-informed members here. That must have been on the down-low, as I've talked to some serious cue collectors over the years, and I never heard of the "Golden Balabushka" Maybe the Glenns might know, or Tascarella.
:
Click to expand...

I’m not sure what you’re saying when you say the Glenns or Tascarella “might know.” Of course they know. The Golden Balabushka is in the Billiard Encyclopedia. I’m sure you have it

There are a lot of people who think the Gold Cue isn’t a Balabushka. They’d be wrong. It’s not a myth, but I can understand how it became one. With today’s information, it should never be a myth again.

Freddie
 
Runner said:
OG poster here... the main concern was with the cue posted on Ebay... making the claim that it's an original "unusual" GB. Many here have posted about the details/
differences/ non-standard look of the cue.

Mr. Mason's stature notwithstanding, I'm of the opinion that it's NOT an original George Balabushka cue. It may have been repaired/worked on by GB (as a favor?) but a GB full conversion from a Titlist with the 'Hoppe' logo showing, and other details mentioned?... I think not.

I've seen and played with many GB's, and briefly owned a GB four point butt that I was going to have shafts made, but ended up trading... nothing ever looked remotely like that cue.

And the Golden Cue?.. thanks for the backstory, Cornerman!... you're one of the most well-informed members here. That must have been on the down-low, as I've talked to some serious cue collectors over the years, and I never heard of the "Golden Balabushka" Maybe the Glenns might know, or Tascarella.

May the rolls be with you:wink:
Click to expand...

Jeez... There's no evidence that the cue is anything other than what the seller says it is.

Imagine if people tried to authenticate the earliest Black Boars based on the newest.
 
Cornerman said:
I’m not sure what you’re saying when you say the Glenns or Tascarella “might know.” Of course they know. The Golden Balabushka is in the Billiard Encyclopedia. I’m sure you have it

There are a lot of people who think the Gold Cue isn’t a Balabushka. They’d be wrong. It’s not a myth, but I can understand how it became one. With today’s information, it should never be a myth again.

Freddie
Click to expand...

Ready Freddie!

Yeah, I have the BE (it's in storage).. I've got old articles about the Glenn collection, etc.
I never assume what anybody knows, but odds on that they both know about the gold cue. I'm familiar with a few cuemakers' new and old designs, but George Balabushka's cues are indeed mythical. I remember being at Hollywood Billiards (the original) and hitting a few balls with a GB, plain four point with the green butt sleeve... power steering.

Now the eBay cue... I'll stay with my original opinion, posted previous. 'Nuff said.
 
What is a titlist Balabushka? Its a Balabushka that has been reworked, backend, joint, by George Balabushka. What does this cue have? A joint and a backend by George Balabushka. No one knows the extent of what was done to the cue at auction, at least not alive. I have a photo of 4 Balabushka shafts, made for the same cue and the pilots are all close, but not Searing precision, by any means. I am not stating these shafts are original, just pointing out that GB was human.

I doubt GB would not have put his backend on a "repair". That delrin, clearly his.

This cue is as much a titlist conversion by GB, as the cue(s) I have attached photos of. Notice the weight stamp STILL on the cue in the picture.

I won't even get into his relationship with HM.. but my understanding is, hey if he wanted a cue, he could get one.

JV
 

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classiccues said:
What is a titlist Balabushka? Its a Balabushka that has been reworked, backend, joint, by George Balabushka. What does this cue have? A joint and a backend by George Balabushka. No one knows the extent of what was done to the cue at auction, at least not alive. I have a photo of 4 Balabushka shafts, made for the same cue and the pilots are all close, but not Searing precision, by any means. I am not stating these shafts are original, just pointing out that GB was human.

I doubt GB would not have put his backend on a "repair". That delrin, clearly his.

This cue is as much a titlist conversion by GB, as the cue(s) I have attached photos of. Notice the weight stamp STILL on the cue in the picture.


I won't even get into his relationship with HM.. but my understanding is, hey if he wanted a cue, he could get one. QUOTE


I'd bid on that bottom cue, no problem... please see post #60... with the joint comparison.
Click to expand...
 
classiccues said:
What is a titlist Balabushka? Its a Balabushka that has been reworked, backend, joint, by George Balabushka. What does this cue have? A joint and a backend by George Balabushka. No one knows the extent of what was done to the cue at auction, at least not alive. I have a photo of 4 Balabushka shafts, made for the same cue and the pilots are all close, but not Searing precision, by any means. I am not stating these shafts are original, just pointing out that GB was human.

I doubt GB would not have put his backend on a "repair". That delrin, clearly his.

This cue is as much a titlist conversion by GB, as the cue(s) I have attached photos of. Notice the weight stamp STILL on the cue in the picture.

I won't even get into his relationship with HM.. but my understanding is, hey if he wanted a cue, he could get one.

JV
Click to expand...

We have seen GBs with brass joints, odd wraps, and other things.

The butt cap looked right to me.

I can't claim any authority in the matter, but I am not afraid to comment fairly on it and what I think I see. A lot of what I think I will hold back on anyway. Why stir the pot?

Is it a Balabushka...truly? Or should it be called something else?

I tend to feel the way you do about the matter. In the end it is only the buyer, or potential buyer, that matters. If one does not like the cue for some reason, their level of expertise is irrelevant. And I would say the same for those that like it for any reason. The one that steps up with the cash has the final say. I feel confident the buyer will say it is a Balabushka, more power to you whoever you are.


By the way, as usual, you have some cool cues on your site. I like stopping by occasionally and generally when I see you post it is a reminder to do that.

I am into Gandy/National/Cervantes cues recently and I see you have one these. I already have that model with two original shafts (it came with two) so I am not a player on that one. It's nice to see some lower end stuff like that. It should attract people that perhaps aren't ready for higher dollar stuff, you have a fair price on it. It was the third model from the top at that time. The fourth model from the top was a Titlist conversion and much more desirable now.

For those that are curious this is it: http://www.classiccues.com/cuemakers/cues_under_1000.htm

It's a Model HC-145 for those that are interested, the model is not noted on that page.

As for the subject at hand, talking Bushkas in the general public forum stirs up a lot. Always has, always will. There are those that know, those that think they know, those that want to know, and all kinds of others. Perhaps we can say at least it speaks to the magnitude of the legend surrounding the man and the cues he made. To me this is even more important than any noise about new carbon fiber cues, aiming systems, or what tip a pro is using. It's part of the fabric of the world of pool. Pat of the history. Part of the foundation for the field we all play around on whether your thing is cues, tables, playing, aiming, cases....tournament operation...chalk...etc

I am not offended by what anybody else thinks of the cue, and I hope they feel the same way about me. I try not to overstep what I really know. In my life I think I have handled three Balabushkas...and I don't own one...yet.

The entire topic is fascinating. Thrilling. Filled with mystique, legend, technical matters, history, and more.

I am glad to see it discussed here on AZB. Simple as that.

.
 
Chopdoc said:
We have seen GBs with brass joints, odd wraps, and other things.

The butt cap looked right to me.

I can't claim any authority in the matter, but I am not afraid to comment fairly on it and what I think I see. A lot of what I think I will hold back on anyway. Why stir the pot?

Is it a Balabushka...truly? Or should it be called something else?

I tend to feel the way you do about the matter. In the end it is only the buyer, or potential buyer, that matters. If one does not like the cue for some reason, their level of expertise is irrelevant. And I would say the same for those that like it for any reason. The one that steps up with the cash has the final say. I feel confident the buyer will say it is a Balabushka, more power to you whoever you are.


By the way, as usual, you have some cool cues on your site. I like stopping by occasionally and generally when I see you post it is a reminder to do that.

I am into Gandy/National/Cervantes cues recently and I see you have one these. I already have that model with two original shafts (it came with two) so I am not a player on that one. It's nice to see some lower end stuff like that. It should attract people that perhaps aren't ready for higher dollar stuff, you have a fair price on it. It was the third model from the top at that time. The fourth model from the top was a Titlist conversion and much more desirable now.

For those that are curious this is it: http://www.classiccues.com/cuemakers/cues_under_1000.htm

It's a Model HC-145 for those that are interested, the model is not noted on that page.

As for the subject at hand, talking Bushkas in the general public forum stirs up a lot. Always has, always will. There are those that know, those that think they know, those that want to know, and all kinds of others. Perhaps we can say at least it speaks to the magnitude of the legend surrounding the man and the cues he made. To me this is even more important than any noise about new carbon fiber cues, aiming systems, or what tip a pro is using. It's part of the fabric of the world of pool. Pat of the history. Part of the foundation for the field we all play around on whether your thing is cues, tables, playing, aiming, cases....tournament operation...chalk...etc

I am not offended by what anybody else thinks of the cue, and I hope they feel the same way about me. I try not to overstep what I really know. In my life I think I have handled three Balabushkas...and I don't own one...yet.

The entire topic is fascinating. Thrilling. Filled with mystique, legend, technical matters, history, and more.

I am glad to see it discussed here on AZB. Simple as that.

.
Click to expand...


CD- WOW!!!!!!! *THAT* is my cue! That's identical to the one I bought in Shreveport in 73!!! Man this has been a week of shattering the odds!!!!!! Holey Kamole! I just got goosebumps looking at that photo. I haven't seen that cue in almost 45 years! I sold it in 75. Wowwwwwww.
 
Michael Andros said:
CD- WOW!!!!!!! *THAT* is my cue! That's identical to the one I bought in Shreveport in 73!!! Man this has been a week of shattering the odds!!!!!! Holey Kamole! I just got goosebumps looking at that photo. I haven't seen that cue in almost 45 years! I sold it in 75. Wowwwwwww.
Click to expand...

Well, if you want another, now you know where to get one. The price is fair.

The past few days is certainly turning into a walk down memory lane for you. :smile:

I have one with two original shafts. One shaft needs a tip, the other a ferrule, otherwise the cue is excellent...and not for sale. :wink:

picture.php


picture.php


Did you perhaps miss this thread? Somebody paid over $500 for just the butt: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=472617&highlight=gandy

.
 
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Chopdoc said:
Is it a Balabushka...truly? Or should it be called something else?

In the end it is only the buyer, or potential buyer, that matters.
Click to expand...

Agree, this is the one truth. And it is ironic, that the seller actually did himself a disservice with the Ebay ad. If, as we suspect, that is may have been modified (repaired) by George, described truthfully, and he showed some provenance on the other aspect of his ownership, i.e., the Golden Balabushka, I think he would have gotten more than 3,500 for this cue. A lot more collectors would have gone for it, even if not an original Bushka, which it is not.

Instead, it was a pretty glib advertisement, with a few snipes, that ended in speculation, and a medium sale. A Balabushka is worth more than 3,500. Logic check here.

This is a perfect example of how not to do a cue sale, Ebay or elsewhere. The truth is your friend, especially with some provenance, which this was lacking.

All the best,
WW
 
Chopdoc said:
Well, if you want another, now you know where to get one. The price is fair.

The past few days is certainly turning into a walk down memory lane for you. :smile:

I have one with two original shafts. One shaft needs a tip, the other a ferrule, otherwise the cue is excellent...and not for sale. :wink:

picture.php


picture.php


Did you perhaps miss this thread? Somebody paid over $500 for just the butt: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=472617&highlight=gandy

.
Click to expand...


Thanks CD! I'm tempted to buy it!
 
Except two things....

The cue on the left, which I am very familiar with, has a mid 60's screw. Early 60's screws, the flat cue is the norm.

The second thing, is very much Balabushka, and I am not at liberty to discuss.

JV

Runner said:
classiccues said:
What is a titlist Balabushka? Its a Balabushka that has been reworked, backend, joint, by George Balabushka. What does this cue have? A joint and a backend by George Balabushka. No one knows the extent of what was done to the cue at auction, at least not alive. I have a photo of 4 Balabushka shafts, made for the same cue and the pilots are all close, but not Searing precision, by any means. I am not stating these shafts are original, just pointing out that GB was human.

I doubt GB would not have put his backend on a "repair". That delrin, clearly his.

This cue is as much a titlist conversion by GB, as the cue(s) I have attached photos of. Notice the weight stamp STILL on the cue in the picture.


I won't even get into his relationship with HM.. but my understanding is, hey if he wanted a cue, he could get one. QUOTE


I'd bid on that bottom cue, no problem... please see post #60... with the joint comparison.
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