Ball Bumping for break shots

dmgwalsh

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
We have all seen it. Some of us have executed it properly when the stars are aligned correctly.

Here is a nice one where Bobby Hunter Starting at 56:09 bumps a break ball using just a bit of draw, I think. Too much draw and he does not bump. Center ball and the bump would have been too much and the ball would not have been a break shot. Great touch.

This may be more common than I thought and just be beyond my touch. What about you guys?

By the way, earlier in this match, Bob runs a 65.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADcahW7Ibqc&feature=share
 
Yes, skilled players are always looking for opportunities to bump balls into break position at any time during a rack (not just at the end). This play is more often a matter of recognition than special execution. Sometimes it is just a matter of hitting a shot harder or softer without the need of subtle CB manipulation. Additionally, the same thinking can be used to create key balls by bumping balls out to table center (or elsewhere) when an opportunity presents. Key-ball creation was a favorite tactic of Tom Kollins and often emphasized in his teachings.

~Rick
 
rikdee said:
Yes, skilled players are always looking for opportunities to bump balls into break position at any time during a rack (not just at the end). This play is more often a matter of recognition than special execution. Sometimes it is just a matter of hitting a shot harder or softer without the need of subtle CB manipulation. Additionally, the same thinking can be used to create key balls by bumping balls out to table center (or elsewhere) when an opportunity presents. Key-ball creation was a favorite tactic of Tom Kollins and often emphasized in his teachings.

~Rick
Click to expand...

Rik: I know that you know that Bobby took that seminar from Tom Kollins way back in the day. He does keep his eye on bumping possibilities. Surprises me a bit when he does it early.:eek:

I thought the execution on this particular shot was very nice. Not a straight bump, but he had to do something a little delicate with his cue ball control. If the deafening silence is any indication, none of the other forum members find it at all interesting.:boring2:

Perhaps everyone but me has great cue ball control and knows when to use it.:wink:
 
Yup, Bobby's shot was a particularly skilled execution of the play. Yet, the key is remaining aware of any such possiblility each time you get down to shoot and as I noted above, many times the play doesn't require anything near the level of Bobby's shot. Scanning any layout for "bump improvement" should be part of one's pre-shot routine, no different than always reading the stack before shooting anything. It is often said once balls are parted, don't bump into them. However, an exception to that rule might be "bumping to improve the layout".

~Rick
 
dmgwalsh said:
We have all seen it. Some of us have executed it properly when the stars are aligned correctly.

Here is a nice one where Bobby Hunter Starting at 56:09 bumps a break ball using just a bit of draw, I think. Too much draw and he does not bump. Center ball and the bump would have been too much and the ball would not have been a break shot. Great touch.

This may be more common than I thought and just be beyond my touch. What about you guys?

By the way, earlier in this match, Bob runs a 65.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADcahW7Ibqc&feature=share
Click to expand...

I am not sure but it looked like he might have had a bit of left on the white, this would follow or twist the object ball towards the rack as it looked to be a little on the high side before the promotion. I have always thought Bobby Hunter has one of the more fluid strokes and there is no doubt he plays great.
 
dmgwalsh said:
If the deafening silence is any indication, none of the other forum members find it at all interesting.:boring2:
Perhaps everyone but me has great cue ball control and knows when to use it.:wink:
Click to expand...
Dennis, everyone is frozen in awe. We don't have anything to say :)

As for Bobby's shot, it looked like a stun "drag shot" to me. He judged where the contat on the 6 would be preferable and aimed the cue ball to hit that point. Draw applied of course to position the cue ball closer to the middle of the field.
 
Its just something you have to keep your eyes open for, stuff like that comes up quite a bit, its just that you usually already have a break ball lined up and arent interested in creating another one or dont need it and you overlook it.
At least thats my take on it, but its a great feeling when you try it and it works.
 
dmgwalsh said:
Rik: I know that you know that Bobby took that seminar from Tom Kollins way back in the day. He does keep his eye on bumping possibilities. Surprises me a bit when he does it early.:eek:

I thought the execution on this particular shot was very nice. Not a straight bump, but he had to do something a little delicate with his cue ball control. If the deafening silence is any indication, none of the other forum members find it at all interesting.:boring2:

Perhaps everyone but me has great cue ball control and knows when to use it.:wink:
Click to expand...


When I get a rack open one of the first things I do is look for a break ball AND bump opportunities because sometimes the break shot you can create will be better than what the table has given you. Of course sometimes there's no reasonable break shot at all. And so, after a while, you will come to recognize many natural bump opportunities when two balls are sitting just so. Then it's a question of finding a key ball for the bump. Then, after more time, you will start to recognize more exotic bump opportunities, like having the CB come off a rail and bumping a ball or sending an OB off a rail into break shot position.

The problem is to not get too carried away with trying to do this and my experience has been that sometimes (most times) if you have a semi-decent break shot, unless you can bump something early on, it is better to settle for the lesser shot and work on getting better position on it than wasting energy on creating something.

Lou Figueroa
 
Advice from the upper levels

rikdee said:
Yup, Bobby's shot was a particularly skilled execution of the play. Yet, the key is remaining aware of any such possiblility each time you get down to shoot and as I noted above, many times the play doesn't require anything near the level of Bobby's shot. Scanning any layout for "bump improvement" should be part of one's pre-shot routine, no different than always reading the stack before shooting anything. It is often said once balls are parted, don't bump into them. However, an exception to that rule might be "bumping to improve the layout".

~Rick
Click to expand...

Rick: Something to keep in mind. I am usually scrambling to get the balls off the table, but it probably would not hurt to step back and consider.

lfigueroa said:
When I get a rack open one of the first things I do is look for a break ball AND bump opportunities because sometimes the break shot you can create will be better than what the table has given you. Of course sometimes there's no reasonable break shot at all. And so, after a while, you will come to recognize many natural bump opportunities when two balls are sitting just so. Then it's a question of finding a key ball for the bump. Then, after more time, you will start to recognize more exotic bump opportunities, like having the CB come off a rail and bumping a ball or sending an OB off a rail into break shot position.

The problem is to not get too carried away with trying to do this and my experience has been that sometimes (most times) if you have a semi-decent break shot, unless you can bump something early on, it is better to settle for the lesser shot and work on getting better position on it than wasting energy on creating something.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Good advice, Lou. Both the looking for the bump in different ways, and key ball to the bumps and the advice to leave well enough alone, at times.

Danny Harriman said:
I am not sure but it looked like he might have had a bit of left on the white, this would follow or twist the object ball towards the rack as it looked to be a little on the high side before the promotion. I have always thought Bobby Hunter has one of the more fluid strokes and there is no doubt he plays great.
Click to expand...

Danny- Thanks for chiming in. I remember looking at your 280 video and watching you come with the cue ball two rails around the pocket to bump up a break ball and know that it is something you are well aware of. You have brought the discussion up another level by mentioning the English on the cue ball affecting the direction of the object ball that is being bumped. This is easily overlooked by many of us at the lower levels, but would probably be another good tool to have in our tool boxes.
 
I play equal offense mostly, kind of a hybrid 14.1 and with most of the balls up table following the break I frequently end up trying to create a break ball. I usually try to do it prior to the final two balls so in case something goes wrong I can go to plan B. I wonder how far in advance Bobby decided to use that for his break ball.
 
alstl said:
I play equal offense mostly, kind of a hybrid 14.1 and with most of the balls up table following the break I frequently end up trying to create a break ball. I usually try to do it prior to the final two balls so in case something goes wrong I can go to plan B. I wonder how far in advance Bobby decided to use that for his break ball.
Click to expand...

Bobby got back to the table with 5 balls left and he was up in the kitchen and had to take care of one of them. Then he got a little closer than he wanted to on his next shot. After that there were only three balls left, so his choices were limited.
 
dmgwalsh said:
Bobby got back to the table with 5 balls left and he was up in the kitchen and had to take care of one of them. Then he got a little closer than he wanted to on his next shot. After that there were only three balls left, so his choices were limited.
Click to expand...

Having watched a lot of Schmidty in person and on video, you can really see that Bobby was a big influence in John's 14.1 Game with late breakball creation such as what Bobby displayed right here.

I love creating Breakballs, sometimes even if I have one on on side of the rack, I try to make one on the other. Especially if there is a better keyball opportunity on that side of the table.

Steve
 
dmgwalsh said:
Bobby got back to the table with 5 balls left and he was up in the kitchen and had to take care of one of them. Then he got a little closer than he wanted to on his next shot. After that there were only three balls left, so his choices were limited.
Click to expand...

I am glad you said that, I was getting ready to say:

He obviously had some problems with this rack and failed to manufacture anything workable. I could be the point of this video is it is never to late to make something out of very little if not nothing.

beginning with only 5 on the table...
well done.
 
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