Ball hop

S

stumpie71

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been practicing what I call dead ball follow.Not sure of the proper name though. You hit the cb firm but can move the cb several inches to several feet while striking slightly higher on the cb and hitting the cb the same speed.
I noticed that when I want the cb to travel about 2 diamonds the cb hops. I don't usually get this when I want it to go around a diamond or less or further around 3 diamonds. It's rather frustrating:frown: . I'm cueing a half tip above center and even with the hop it still travels roughly the distance I want most of the time,but is not as accurate as my shots without the hop. Anyone have any insight as to why this happens or should I just learn to deal with it.
I have tried adjusting the way I stoke the cb and so far nothing I've done has worked. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance:thumbup:.
 
Check your cue elevation. A slightly raised cue butt can cause lots of problems....SPF=randyg
 
randyg said:
Check your cue elevation. A slightly raised cue butt can cause lots of problems....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

This is probably the problem. Start by placing the tip low, like back spin, and then lift the bridge hand for top.
 
stumpie71 said:
I have been practicing what I call dead ball follow.Not sure of the proper name though. You hit the cb firm but can move the cb several inches to several feet while striking slightly higher on the cb and hitting the cb the same speed.
I noticed that when I want the cb to travel about 2 diamonds the cb hops. I don't usually get this when I want it to go around a diamond or less or further around 3 diamonds. It's rather frustrating:frown: . I'm cueing a half tip above center and even with the hop it still travels roughly the distance I want most of the time,but is not as accurate as my shots without the hop. Anyone have any insight as to why this happens or should I just learn to deal with it.
I have tried adjusting the way I stoke the cb and so far nothing I've done has worked. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance:thumbup:.
Click to expand...


Take a look at the size of the cue ball compared to the object balls.

I'm guessing that the cue ball has been replaced with something like a nice new red circle... and the object balls are older than dirt :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
raised butt very well could be it. I didn't think about that. Thanks,I'll check that tomorrow when I practice.
 
stumpie71 said:
Ifigueroa thanks but the balls are my personal ones and fairly clean.
Click to expand...

No, not cleanliness -- the size of the cue ball vs the object ball. Cue ball hop most often happens because the cue ball is bigger than the object balls.

Lou Figueroa
it could happen
 
randyg said:
Check your cue elevation. A slightly raised cue butt can cause lots of problems....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

Check it easy enough...put a dime a couple of inches in front of the CB. My guess is you're going to see the initial hop on every stroke...so are you talking about a hop when it hits the object ball?

j!dub
 
stumpie71 said:
I have been practicing what I call dead ball follow.Not sure of the proper name though. You hit the cb firm but can move the cb several inches to several feet while striking slightly higher on the cb and hitting the cb the same speed.
I noticed that when I want the cb to travel about 2 diamonds the cb hops. I don't usually get this when I want it to go around a diamond or less or further around 3 diamonds. It's rather frustrating:frown: . I'm cueing a half tip above center and even with the hop it still travels roughly the distance I want most of the time,but is not as accurate as my shots without the hop. Anyone have any insight as to why this happens or should I just learn to deal with it.
I have tried adjusting the way I stoke the cb and so far nothing I've done has worked. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance:thumbup:.
Click to expand...
FYI, I have good answers to these questions, along with a video demonstration (with super slow motion footage) here:


Here it is:

Because the cue always has some elevation (because the butt must clear over the rails), there is always a downward component of force on the CB that causes it to hop. Also, an above center hits causes squirt into the table that adds to the downward component of force. Here's a good video describing and illustrating the effect:

HSV B.13 - level cue follow shot hop over stacks of coins

To reduce the amount of hop, try keeping the cue as level as possible (i.e., less elevated) at impact with the CB.

There are other effects that can contribute to CB hop. If the CB is slightly larger than the OB (e.g., with an older "bar box"), the CB will hit slightly above the OB equator possibly causing both balls to hop (especially at higher speeds). A similar situation occurs if the OB is resting in a dimple or small tear in the cloth.​

Regards,
Dave
 
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Thanks for the input guys. I should have been more specific though and I apologize. The ball hop is happening after the cb contacts the ob. While I'm hitting firm (for me), around a lag and a half (that's about a 4 for me on a scale of 10). The hop is similar to(not as bad)as someone making a bad follow stroke that gets little action. It's still going close to where I want just not as consistent as I would like. While I could be making a bad stroke it doesn't seem like it. The feel and sound are where I like it. It's very perplexing. Again thanks for the replies and help.
 
I think that it hops at contact because the cueball is in the air at contact....SPF=randyg
 
stumpie71 said:
I have been practicing what I call dead ball follow.Not sure of the proper name though. You hit the cb firm but can move the cb several inches to several feet while striking slightly higher on the cb and hitting the cb the same speed.
I noticed that when I want the cb to travel about 2 diamonds the cb hops. I don't usually get this when I want it to go around a diamond or less or further around 3 diamonds. It's rather frustrating:frown: . I'm cueing a half tip above center and even with the hop it still travels roughly the distance I want most of the time,but is not as accurate as my shots without the hop. Anyone have any insight as to why this happens or should I just learn to deal with it.
I have tried adjusting the way I stoke the cb and so far nothing I've done has worked. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance:thumbup:.
Click to expand...

Used to happen to me until I read a post by Hemicudas here and it fixed the problem. Use a level stroke.
 
randyg said:
I think that it hops at contact because the cueball is in the air at contact....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...
Exactly ... because the CB is hopping (per my previous post).

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Exactly ... because the CB is hopping (per my previous post).

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Exactly...almost every shot is a tiny jump shot...(hence the dime test to prove it to yourself).

A secondary cause COULD be a cue ball rolling with good crisp pace...at the moment of impact with the object ball, even very well waxed balls, the cue ball will naturally want to "gear up" on the object ball a very small amount even if it is not airborne at the moment of impact.

Oh...and level cues can actually only be executed for about 5% of the shots...all others will have some degree of elevation as the butt of the cue will be above the rail.

j!dub
 
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j!dub said:
A secondary cause COULD be a cue ball rolling with good crisp pace...at the moment of impact with the object ball, even very well waxed balls, the cue ball will naturally want to "gear up" on the object ball a very small amount even if it is not airborne at the moment of impact.
Click to expand...
I haven't analyzed or filmed this yet, but I plan too. CB "climb" certainly happens with clingy conditions (i.e., dirty/chalky/sticky balls).

j!dub said:
Oh...and level cues can actually only be executed for about 5% of the shots...all others will have some degree of elevation as the butt of the cue will be above the rail.
Click to expand...
I don't think the 5% figure is accurate. Even if the butt isn't over a rail or other balls, your grip hand still needs clearance over the table surface during the stroke. I think the grip alone, with a little clearance over the table, creates a small amount of cue elevation. In other words, a truly level cue is possible but not very common, IMO.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
I...

I don't think the 5% figure is accurate. Even if the butt isn't over a rail or other balls, your grip hand still needs clearance over the table surface during the stroke. I think the grip alone, with a little clearance over the table, creates a small amount of cue elevation. In other words, a truly level cue is possible but not very common, IMO.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

The 5% was just being pragmatic...a 5' cue with 6" of stroke means the distance behind the CB has to be all above the table bed...not many shots fit into this range.
 
j!dub said:
The 5% was just being pragmatic...a 5' cue with 6" of stroke means the distance behind the CB has to be all above the table bed...not many shots fit into this range.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But even then, the grip around the thicker end of the cue, with finger clearance over the flat table surface, can still prevent a level cue.

Regards,
Dave
 
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