Ball to Ball Physics

Stun at 30 degrees yes - balls throw more with slower speed.

Look at the example with 2 frozen balls - can you throw them off their natural line more with slow or hard speed?

Gerry

Mitchxout said:
Most collision induced throw happens with a hard stun at approx 30 degrees.

It's also possible the cue ball is in the air on contact with the object ball which also causes an undercut.
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Gerry Williams said:
Stun at 30 degrees yes - balls throw more with slower speed.

Look at the example with 2 frozen balls - can you throw them off their natural line more with slow or hard speed?

Gerry
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2 frozen balls don't react the same as a single ball. It's easy to knock a single ball off line just like the video demonstrates.
 
Gerry Williams said:
Anthony - I watched your video. Your stroke/fundamentals must be off when you play the balls hard - once you almost banked it back in the corner when trying to cut it in.

I can play those shots soft or blast the daylights out of them and they will go. Balls actually throw more when played at a softer speed. Speed reduces throw.

So not sure what your video is proving - you are obviously not cutting the shot the same each time....maybe you should use an aiming system :)

Gerry
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I feel a youtube video coming.
 
From Tom Simpson's material.

Undercutting: Because of collision-induced throw (a friction phenomenon between balls), most misses are by undercutting. For example, how often do you see someone miss a table-length, close-to-the-long-rail shot to a distant corner pocket by overcutting and hitting the end rail? Rarely. In fact, I call this “missing on the pro side” because most of us undercut and miss by hitting that side rail. The real fix here is to gain a clear understanding of the “rules” of throw. But since we don’t have space for that here, plan on cutting a little thinner. The softer you’re going to hit the shot, the further it is from the pocket, and the closer the cut angle is to a half-ball hit (30°), the more throw effect you’ll get, and the more you’ll need to compensate. Overcut a little.

You can overcome this by increased speed, more cut or some outside english.

Mitchxout said:
2 frozen balls don't react the same as a single ball. It's easy to knock a single ball off line just like the video demonstrates.
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8pack said:
This video is in response to another thread.

Try this out,you will see that there is an erratic behavior on the ob created by some type of hits.The speed,thickness and where the cb is hit very much determines the path.No aiming system gets around it.

Anthony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPzhPjAi0Dk&feature=youtu.be
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It is true that CIT can affect the path of the object ball. However, this demonstration just shows that you adjust your alignment on harder hits, not that CIT is doing anything. If CIT really was having an affect, it would be opposite of what is demonstrated.

If you are hitting a true half-ball hit and it is aligned to the pocket, a HARD hit should have very little CIT, not even enough to matter. Hitting the CB a little high or low should still hit the pocket just fine. If you hit the ball SOFTLY (and center) CIT should steer it toward the end rail, but only like 2" per diamond of travel. This video is demonstrating an opposite effect. It doesn't look like you are loading the ball up with spin, so I'm guessing you are primarily hitting the OB thicker on your harder hits.
 
The shots in his video are being missed almost a full diamond. No way CIT can account for that, even if the shot were hit softly. That looks like the CTE/Pro One 19.5 - 21 position proposition shot. I've hit that shot thousands of times practicing, tried it with soft/medium/hard and low, stun and draw. Using Pro One, I don't see CIT involved to any significant degree. I do keep my pool balls relatively clean and the temperature/humidity in my home pool room is rather constant.

I'm still struggling to understand why someone would waste so much of their time trying to prove CTE/Pro One doesn't work. I don't give a moment's consideration to proving ghostball, fractional aiming, stick aiming or anything other aiming system doesn't work. I could care less. I'd rather focus my time and energy on getting better with the system I've chosen to use. Besides that, anyone with an ounce of brains would realize you can't prove a negative anyway.
 
nobcitypool said:
The shots in his video are being missed almost a full diamond. No way CIT can account for that, even if the shot were hit softly. That looks like the CTE/Pro One 19.5 - 21 position proposition shot. I've hit that shot thousands of times practicing, tried it with soft/medium/hard and low, stun and draw. Using Pro One, I don't see CIT involved to any significant degree. I do keep my pool balls relatively clean and the temperature/humidity in my home pool room is rather constant.

I'm still struggling to understand why someone would waste so much of their time trying to prove CTE/Pro One doesn't work. I don't give a moment's consideration to proving ghostball, fractional aiming, stick aiming or anything other aiming system doesn't work. I could care less. I'd rather focus my time and energy on getting better with the system I've chosen to use. Besides that, anyone with an ounce of brains would realize you can't prove a negative anyway.
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This isnt about your system and everything in the video is 100 percent accurate on my table with my balls.You seem like the type of guy who has his trick himself into believing shit that isnt true and vice versa.

Your on another plane I guess,come back before there's know hope for you.;)

Anthony
 
mohrt said:
It is true that CIT can affect the path of the object ball. However, this demonstration just shows that you adjust your alignment on harder hits, not that CIT is doing anything. If CIT really was having an affect, it would be opposite of what is demonstrated.

If you are hitting a true half-ball hit and it is aligned to the pocket, a HARD hit should have very little CIT, not even enough to matter. Hitting the CB a little high or low should still hit the pocket just fine. If you hit the ball SOFTLY (and center) CIT should steer it toward the end rail, but only like 2" per diamond of travel. This video is demonstrating an opposite effect. It doesn't look like you are loading the ball up with spin, so I'm guessing you are primarily hitting the OB thicker on your harder hits.
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Wrong! Try some 1/2 ball hits at slow and high speeds hitting high on the cb.(ex)
It matters,and how clean the balls are matter to.Ive shown this to others player and we all had the same results.
 
LAMas said:
What can be wrong if you are aiming the center of the CB at the edge of the OB...system or no system.

Good show.:thumbup:
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Think about your question. What could be wrong if you are aiming x at y? What's the major variable in this task?

What if you have a marked line to use as a guide?
 
8pack said:
Wrong! Try some 1/2 ball hits at slow and high speeds hitting high on the cb.(ex)
It matters,and how clean the balls are matter to.Ive shown this to others player and we all had the same results.
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You misread my statement. I'm referring to a HARD hit only. When you hit the ball HARD and exactly on geometric alignment to the pocket ( half ball hit ), CIT will have very negligible effect, even when hitting high or low. It certainly isn't going to throw the shot off a whole diamond, I don't care how dirty the balls are. In the video it is apparent that the alignment is getting skewed during the harder stroke. CIT is not causing that much of a miss, and I doubt it will cause a miss at all (HARD shot.) By HARD I mean 3 speed or more. The video shows HARD speed.

Gerry is right on about slow stun. That is why pros don't baby an easy shot. They do something, either add speed or draw or something that removes the slow stun element.
 
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mohrt said:
You misread my statement. I'm referring to a HARD hit only. When you hit the ball HARD and exactly on geometric alignment to the pocket ( half ball hit ), CIT will have very negligible effect, even when hitting high or low. It certainly isn't going to throw the shot off a whole diamond, I don't care how dirty the balls are. In the video it is apparent that the alignment is getting skewed during the harder stroke. CIT is not causing that much of a miss, and I doubt it will cause a miss at all (HARD shot.) By HARD I mean 3 speed or more. The video shows HARD speed.

Gerry is right on about slow stun. That is why pros don't baby an easy shot. They do something, either add speed or draw or something that removes the slow stun element.
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Define what a hard hit is......this is another issue, what is a "hard" hit to you by not be to someone else.

Define the speed of the CB that makes it a hard hit. How many inches per second is a hard hit,a medium hit and a soft hit?

What speed is a slow stun? Is my "slow" stun the same speed as your "slow" stun?
 
duckie said:
Define what a hard hit is......this is another issue, what is a "hard" hit to you by not be to someone else.

Define the speed of the CB that makes it a hard hit. How many inches per second is a hard hit,a medium hit and a soft hit?

What speed is a slow stun? Is my "slow" stun the same speed as your "slow" stun?
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Here comes duckie to argue semantics. I stated speed 3, which would be three times up and down a regulation table. But it doesn't matter much in this context, anything over medium speed will not have a chance to hit that first diamond.
 
Maybe it's not ghostball after all, but Duckie's lack of understanding speed control, that has kept from progressing past a low level player.
 
mohrt said:
Here comes duckie to argue semantics. I stated speed 3, which would be three times up and down a regulation table. But it doesn't matter much in this context, anything over medium speed will not have a chance to hit that first diamond.
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So is speed 3 a hard hit or medium hit or soft hit.

Again whats medium? Can you provide a inch per second rate for what a meduim hit is. Simple question.

With a set standard for what a medium hit is, then when discussing types of speed, the everyone would have the same standard for a reference point.

Your medium hit may not be joe player medium hit.

Are these accepted industry standards for speed in pool world or just what you use?

Oh, and what about a hits between soft and medium? Yall talk as if there is only slow, medium and hard hits when in pool there is more then these three speeds used.

If you can't produce a inch per second rate for what you consider a medium hit, just say so.
 
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