Balls Per Inning

[JoeW]

Here is a score sheet that keeps score something like the counters over the table. The number of balls made in each rack is entered as a separate number in the “R” column.

The balls on the table = 15- the last entry in the “R” column.

The sum of the "R" scores is the score for the inning and may or not be accompanied by an "S" for safe.

An uncalled "safe" is here defined as any shot that is not called and does not have an obvious line to a pocket.

The penalty column is used to enter the penalty subtracted from the total score.

Total is the sum of the score column entries minus any penaties for that inning.

If the player runs multiple racks, the first score in "R" keps the rack right, check marks indicate 14 balls or the whole rack, the last entry is needed to keep the rack right. so an entry like 2 x x x x x 11 means the player ran 83 balls and there are four balls left on the table.

bpi= sum of inning except (0s) / number of these innings.
%safe = Sum of S / total innings

Created by Joe W and placed in the public domain for anyone to use at any time -- enjoy.

 

[mjantti]

Please don't make us switch to the wacky European way of scoring! There is something inherently confusing about writing a number down on a scoresheet which is not your score.

I'm sorry Steve, the problem here lies in thy cranium

 

[JoeW]

Here is a link to the score sheet with instructions. It is three pages long and can be printed with MS Word. By the way, you can use it for practice sessions playing the Ghost and determine your BPI and safe%.

Our european friends can use the R column for balls onthe table

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here is a score sheet that keeps score something like the counters over the table. The number of balls made in each rack is entered as a separate number in the “R” column.
...

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the European style (as I understand it) is a better way to go. It is a little harder to figure out the innings, but it ensures that you always have room for the rack score. Of course it would be better if each table had a scorekeeper to mark down runs/fouls/totals, but there is not a suitable funding model for that.

As I understand it, there are three columns for each player:

Balls on table at start of turn
Balls made from rack + foul
Total score at end of inning

In the case of a long run, there are a bunch of 15's entered in the first column for the runner and/or a bunch of 14's in the second column, while the other player gets a bunch of blank rows on his part of the scoresheet.

So, a few questions for anyone who has used this sort of scoring.

Is the above more or less correct?
Do you enter both the 15's and 14's for a long run?
Do you keep the total score up-to-date during a long run?
If you mark the total score during the long run, do you do anything special to indicate that the run has not ended?
Do you use a special symbol for foul and safe? (I have seen F and S used on US 14.1 scoresheets.)

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[JoeW]

I do not know how the Europeans do it but I revised my score sheet so that the user now enters the balls made in the current rack and then enters an “X” for each rack that he runs. The balls made in the final rack is the last number in the “R” column. This takes less space and it is easy to calculate the balls on the table as 15 - last R value.

R looks something like this, 3xxxx5. The player made the last three balls in the current rack, ran four racks and made 5 in the final rack for a "Score" = 64 or 3+14+14+14+14+5 . Balls on the table = 10 or (15-5 ).

If the player made only 3 balls the entry would be “3”.

If the player made three in the current rack and five in the next rack the “R” values would be 3,5

 

[Steve Lipsky]

How about something like this?

I tried to keep the integrity of both the rack and the innings. The "continuous" columns for each player are just to make it easier to sight runs (the box should be checked if a player was on a run at the beginning of the rack and continued on the same run at the end of the rack).

Misses are marked with " / ", safes are marked with "S", fouls with "F", and intentional fouls with "IF".


(Please disregard the green arrows in the upper left of some cells. Excel was having trouble with the numbers-to-text thing .)

Rack 3 is a good example to look at. Since Player 2 ran the previous rack, it was his turn at the start of rack 3. The immediate " / " signifies he missed the break shot. Player 1 then ran 3 and missed. Player 2 ran 6 and missed, and Player 1 finished the rack with 5.

In rack 8, Player 2 began by running 3 then playing safe (no " / "). They engage in a safe battle, with player 2 eventually winning it and running 6 before missing. Player 1 finishes the rack with 5, then runs out.

I'm sure improvements can be made, so any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,
Steve

P.S. All necessary statistics can be gleaned from this sheet, I believe. BPI, safe percentage, and high runs.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

Joe, I'm going to take a further look at your scoresheet tomorrow when I have some time. Thanks for your hard work!

- Steve

 

[mjantti]

Here's an example of a european scoresheet. I say it again, it's very simple and covers many things.

The match progress:

1. Player A starts, 15 balls on the table, makes a safety - run of 0 (could be also marked as "S" to exclude the inning from BPI).
2. Player B gets to the table, 15 balls on the table, scores 8 balls and has a total score of 8.
3. Player A returns to the table with 7 balls on the table, after he has reached the break ball, the rack is put together thus adding 14 balls to the table and the "table" column has now 21. He proceeds to run the rack (table +14 = 35) and another 35+14 = 49 and misses while 11 balls on the table. So he ran the table minus the balls remaining 49-11 = 38. His total score is now 38.
4. Player B returns with 11 balls on the table. Runs the first rack (table 25) and another (table 39) and another (table 53) and misses with 3 balls remaining thus making a run of 53-3=50 and has a total score of 58.
5. Player A, 3 balls on the table, makes 1 (duh) and has a total score of 39.
6. B, 2 balls at the table, reaches the break ball (table 16), runs another rack (table 30) and another (table 44) and misses with 11 balls on the table thus running 44-11=33 with now a total score of 91.
7. A, 11 balls on the table, clears the table (table 25), runs a rack (table 39) and another (table 53) and misses while 12 balls on the table running 53-12=41 and totalling now 80.
8. B comes to the table with 12 balls in there and runs the remaining 9 balls to win 100-80.

Under the scoring are match statistics. If the "safety system" would be in use, Player A's first inning would have "S" on the score column thus having a total of 3 innings.

Some scorekeepers use only a "x" to mark another rack in the table column, but then they usually mark the "score" column adding 14 points after each completed rack.

The simplicity lies in the fact that only thing you need to do is keep adding 14 points to table column or the score column. You don't need to pay attention to anything during the inning except marking a new rack.

If a player ends his run with a foul, the score column has the total run minus one for instance if Player A's 2nd inning would end in a foul he would have 38-1 in the "score" with 37 in "total".

Runs ending with either a safe or a miss doesn't matter in BPI. Only if the innings consists only of one single safety, the innings could be omitted from the BPI.

Keeping things simple is very important while creating an uniform scoresheet.

Steve's proposition is unfortunately very complicated and still I can't easily see the number of innings there.

Only thing the European scoresheet does not cover is the fact what is the exact score at a certain point of a run. But the player at the table can really easily calculate the exact score in mid-run. Also it's not very viewer friendly as the opponent doesn't need to keep the exact score anywhere. That's why for instance EPC has a separate scorekeeper to press a button on a laptop to add the score one by one.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

Steve's proposition is unfortunately very complicated and still I can't easily see the number of innings there.

Hey Mikko. I think we may be at an impasse here. The differing ways to score the game are just too ingrained in us to be able to easily see the simplicity of each other's scoresheets.

Right after I created my version, I thought that would be the end of the issue. I really did. Even though there are a number of columns, really the only effort a player had to put in would be to write down the number of balls he got that rack. Everything else takes care of itself.

However, I now appreciate that the differences between the systems are just too severe. I looked at your spreadsheet and I do see the simplicity; the problem for me lies in the fact that you'll never get me to write down scores I haven't earned yet. It just goes against any scoring mentality I've ever known, for basically anything. That aside, the European model is very efficient - though I must admit to not seeing anything more efficient about it than the US version.

As to your one comment about my sheet, and how you still can't see the innings very easily: Even if that's the case, I'm not sure you have to. Nobody really cares about innings during the game. They are usually calculated afterwards, and in less than a minute with my sheet you'll be able to figure it out, along with every other stat related to 14.1.

Still, my main point with this post is to say that, after hearing from both sides, it doesn't look like we're going to resolve this issue. It's not fair for the Americans to ask the Europeans to re-learn their scoring methods, and vice versa. It looks like the only positive that came out of this whole thread is that we've finally recognized that there is indeed a difference in scoring between the two regions. At least for future tournaments, the players will hopefully be informed of this and can check each other's scores appropriately.

Finally, Joe, I looked at your scoresheet and although I think it is very good, it falls under the same "american system". I think we're just at an impasse and not much is going to change that.

- Steve

 

[mjantti]

Words of wisdom from Steve.

 

[Williebetmore]

Words of wisdom from Steve.

MJ,
While I agree with Steve that the European method is NOT for me; I will say that your European beer glasses (in your avatar) ROCK. I am planning on changing as soon as I can find a place to purchase such glasses.

 

[JoeW]

Score Sheet 3

Oops, still needs a little work, I'll post it later.

 

[Irish634]

How about something like this?

I tried to keep the integrity of both the rack and the innings. The "continuous" columns for each player are just to make it easier to sight runs (the box should be checked if a player was on a run at the beginning of the rack and continued on the same run at the end of the rack).

Misses are marked with " / ", safes are marked with "S", fouls with "F", and intentional fouls with "IF".

<<<Snipped>>>

Steve,

Just a suggestion, and I understand the desire to keep the score sheet small. But, how about adding an additional column titled "inning" and adding a row for each inning played?

An example pulled from your table:


I am not sure how feasible it is, just something that came to mind.

Craig

 

[mjantti]

MJ,
While I agree with Steve that the European method is NOT for me; I will say that your European beer glasses (in your avatar) ROCK. I am planning on changing as soon as I can find a place to purchase such glasses.

Honestly, those two men in my avatar don't include me. I'm also searching for that place where beer is served in glasses like that. But if I find it, you can be sure that you're the first one to know

Steve, you said that you refuse to write down a score you haven't earned yet. The "table" doesn't contain information on the score, it does contain the information which tells you how much someone can earn, the table column can be omitted after the match because it doesn't have much info on the run, just a column to help you out to calculate the score and it shouldn't be used for live scoring. Your chart makes it difficult to figure out the inning because you seem to want to put each rack on a new row which I don't understand. My European system has one inning per one row, simple as that. The "score" column is the same with "run" you can easily see the run for each inning in one column, no extra marks there to confuse you, except the fact that you don't mark the score between racks, unless there is live scoring needed.

You also mentioned that it is "easy" to calculate the innings from your scoresheet. I don't think so considering the scenario that we are playing the EPC with 24 tables each providing a scoresheet every 2 hours with 2 player's innings to be calculated and we all know how much tournament officials like the extra work

Also, if a players ends the run with a miss or a safety, it doesn't change the BPI so it doesn't really matter if a run ends with either one. Only with a one-shot inning it makes a difference.

My chart is missing titles "inning" on top of the bolded numbers if some one haven't figured that out yet.

Imho this comes all down to the difference that should we mark each rack on a new row or should we keep one inning per one row. And should we calculate the score between every rack or only after the the inning. I don't see any other major differences between the systems. But I guess we all agree that the universal score sheet should be as simple as possible ?

I think both systems are good and efficient, American system provides the score after each rack but also requires more writing during the inning and the match data is not easily accessible after the match. European system is easier to deal with after the match, every piece of data is accessible after the match (runs, innings -> average) but lacks the system for knowing exactly what the score is after each shot. Also, I think European system requires more work if there are a lot of innings but is easier to deal with with very few innings which I think is the main reason it's used at the EPC for instance.

Steve is right, we are at an impasse here... sigh.

 

[cuetable]

Hi Steve:

After looking at Mikko's post, I have thought of another "inning based" scoresheet using your previous example.

the plus sign " + " indicates the beginning of a rack. It also signifies the continuation of a run. In this case, we can count the plus signs to get total racks played (11). Not to steer too far from the topic, this "indicating" technique has been used in multipage cuetable layout coding. (And Steve was the first one to suggest about having multiple pages for WeiTable)

In the 5, 6, 7 inning players played safeties, we can take 3 off the total innings to get the number of "offensive innings" (maybe "scoring innings" are better words) and we can count the average from there. 100/(9-3) =16.66

The break shot should be marked as " +S". If a player foul on the breakshot then it will be marked as "+F -1".

In the case of 3 foul it will be marked as "F -16 +S" or "IF -16 +S".

If the player run 3 racks and scratches on the breakshot, it will be "14+14+14+F -1"

I think this is pretty clear and easy to do

 

[JoeW]

Revision based on all of the prior posts and intended to reconcile some differences. The sheet shows the number of balls on the table at the beginning of the turn. It allows for scores up to 140 in the rack column (280 if two lines are used). It keeps track of safes and allows for calculation of BPI and % safes.

Definitions:
In = Inning
OT= On Table or Balls on the table at the start of turn
15- the last rack entry for the opposing player is the OT value for the next player

Rack = Number of balls made
Enter the number of balls made in the current rack.
If all balls are made in the next rack enter “/.”
After five “/” convert the slash to an “X” indicating six racks, etc
Last entry is the number of balls made in the last rack


/ = 14
// = 28
/// = 42
//// = 56
///// = 70
X//// = 84
XX/// = 98
XXX// = 112
XXXX/ = 126
XXXXX = 140

Pen= Penalty assigned for foul, scratch, etc
Sco = sum of rack minus any penalty
S = Safety any missed shot where the object ball does not have a direct line to the pocket.
Tot = Total or the cumulative score.

BPI = sum of all scores except “0s” divided by the number of scores used.
S% = Number of “S” in Score column divided by the total number of innings.

John
BPI = (74+5+0+37+34) / 5 = 30
S% = 3/6 = .5 = 50%

Frank
BPI = (3+38+90+5) / 4 = 34
S% = 4/5 = .8 = 80%

Score sheet i attached as a doc file.

 

[JoeW]

Duplicate post

 

[mjantti]

Enter the number of balls made in the current rack.
If all balls are made in the next rack enter “/.”
After five “/” convert the slash to an “X” indicating six racks, etc
Last entry is the number of balls made in the last rack

/ = 14
// = 28
/// = 42
//// = 56
///// = 70
X//// = 84
XX/// = 98
XXX// = 112
XXXX/ = 126
XXXXX = 140

I like this idea.

I think the penalty column can be omitted, the "score" column can have that information too. If a player ends his 80 ball run with a foul, it can be marked down as "80-1". I don't think it needs a separate column. Good job, Joe.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Revision based on all of the prior posts and intended to reconcile some differences. ... Score sheet i attached as a doc file.

I like this version, but the .doc file seems not to have shown up. If you haven't already, you need to include an explanation of the symbols on the sheet. I propose "F" for a foul, and script "S" for a safety (to avoid confusion with a "5". For the special cases of two- and 16-point fouls, they could be recorded as "F-2" and "F-16" while a simple "F" would be a single point deducted.

 

[JoeW]

Last version

The attached file uses a "$" to mark "Safe." So there should be no confusion between " 5" and "S". The $ should not be too inconvient for some as we use slash 7 to insure that a 7 is not misinterpted as a 1.

It is noted that penalty should always be a F-1 (or whatever) and that it is always a negative number. That should take care of that problem and idicates that it is to be removed.

Because there is more room on and 8 1/2 X 11 sheet the column headers are written out and there is room for 35 innings - Hopefully more than anybody needs!

See next post, I had to break apart and load two files -- it worked.