banking advice
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
i have johns dvd and the beards books and dvd
i have to relook at both again
but john set up bank shots and showed you how to shoot them and discussed his preferred angle to the pocket and how to hit them to get that angle i dont want to be more specific because people should buy his dvd
beards info gives alot more on what im looking for with regards to how to compensate for passover vs cut banks and how to adjust if you want to "twist it " or shorten it"
he also gives alot of "formulas" for aiming multi rail banks
much more of what i am looking for
doesanyone use the X triangle system to find the spot on the rail to aim to for a one rail bank??
does anyone use the "parrallel line split the difference system"
or any other system???
the above 2 ive found but havent tried on the table yet
will be doing that soon
just looking for advice from the instructors
cmon fran where are you when i need you??
i have to relook at both again
but john set up bank shots and showed you how to shoot them and discussed his preferred angle to the pocket and how to hit them to get that angle i dont want to be more specific because people should buy his dvd
beards info gives alot more on what im looking for with regards to how to compensate for passover vs cut banks and how to adjust if you want to "twist it " or shorten it"
he also gives alot of "formulas" for aiming multi rail banks
much more of what i am looking for
doesanyone use the X triangle system to find the spot on the rail to aim to for a one rail bank??
does anyone use the "parrallel line split the difference system"
or any other system???
the above 2 ive found but havent tried on the table yet
will be doing that soon
just looking for advice from the instructors
cmon fran where are you when i need you??
bbb:
I for sure wanted not to sound like: *watch that dvd and shoot half-of-a-million-banks*.
Wanted just to show up, that the informations John gave on his DVD are really good- when spin is needed and how the ob reacts after being shot with spin, low or follow.
Furthermore i recommend here to start with *those easy banks* (those you also wrote, which JOhn played). Play them first the easy way-with ball in hand. And later vary by placing the cueball bit different. Half a ball, 1 ball width more to the left or to the right. Then try also to shoot them *like before*-and see what happens (short? long?). With these informations you can then go farther- by giving bit of left or right hand english etc. --
Banking is very much about expirience. If it s about banking you have to know also *your* stroke (speed/english relation important).
And yes-that s what i tell also my students- if it s about kicking-then i teach em systems- but not on banking
lg
Ingo
I for sure wanted not to sound like: *watch that dvd and shoot half-of-a-million-banks*.
Wanted just to show up, that the informations John gave on his DVD are really good- when spin is needed and how the ob reacts after being shot with spin, low or follow.
Furthermore i recommend here to start with *those easy banks* (those you also wrote, which JOhn played). Play them first the easy way-with ball in hand. And later vary by placing the cueball bit different. Half a ball, 1 ball width more to the left or to the right. Then try also to shoot them *like before*-and see what happens (short? long?). With these informations you can then go farther- by giving bit of left or right hand english etc. --
Banking is very much about expirience. If it s about banking you have to know also *your* stroke (speed/english relation important).
And yes-that s what i tell also my students- if it s about kicking-then i teach em systems- but not on banking
lg
Ingo
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ingo its interesting you bring that up because i know alot of kicking systems and thought about approaching where to aim from where would i hit if i had to kick at a ball in the hole and then figuring the collision induced spin and throw speed etc
agree completely
I think it is best to start at the start. What for you is the exact 2:1 track? That is, can you describe an exact line on the table that is exactly on a track?
(I'm sorry if this seems too basic, but lots of people have broken notions about banks and if you want to have a solid understanding I think you need to make sure that you don't allow any of those notions to creep in. Some of the broken notions relate to the geometry of the simple systems.)
I think you know this but.....
Banks have many more variables than any other type of shot that's why it's the hardest to come up with "___" system for banking that works better than any other. But you have done your homework and know that already. As Byrne said in his standard book of pool & billiards in the introduction of the section titled "At last the truth about bank shots" he says "There is only one real way to get good at bank shots and that is to shoot them till they come out your ears".
This is what you have to do to get good at them you need to drill till the cows come home. So do the drills in your DVD's AND come up with your own drills also. When I am doing a "banking day" I have a banking warmup (shooting "dead" banks) AND THEN start my bank drills. You can do the mirror system, X-system (I assume this is the or similar to Byrnes triangulation system), diamond system or any other system but since the accuracy of the bank in question has as much to do with the speed & english of the shot as it has to do with the angle of incidence just finding the contact point on the rail is only marginally helpful.
So this is not true (at least not to the degree) of any other type of shot. If you hit a lengthwise bank that has a wide angle with a fraction of unintentional tip offset or way too soft or hard and you can miss the pocket by a diamond. That simply is not true about any other type of shot. So what you are doing is correct; you are getting all the "science" of it down. Now all you have to do is come up with YOUR OWN practice methods as well as DO the suggested ones A LOT. I am fully aware that you know this and it probably isn't very helpful but I just thought I would "ground" you with it.
PS have you figured out how to take video with that camera yet?
Banks have many more variables than any other type of shot that's why it's the hardest to come up with "___" system for banking that works better than any other. But you have done your homework and know that already. As Byrne said in his standard book of pool & billiards in the introduction of the section titled "At last the truth about bank shots" he says "There is only one real way to get good at bank shots and that is to shoot them till they come out your ears".
This is what you have to do to get good at them you need to drill till the cows come home. So do the drills in your DVD's AND come up with your own drills also. When I am doing a "banking day" I have a banking warmup (shooting "dead" banks) AND THEN start my bank drills. You can do the mirror system, X-system (I assume this is the or similar to Byrnes triangulation system), diamond system or any other system but since the accuracy of the bank in question has as much to do with the speed & english of the shot as it has to do with the angle of incidence just finding the contact point on the rail is only marginally helpful.
So this is not true (at least not to the degree) of any other type of shot. If you hit a lengthwise bank that has a wide angle with a fraction of unintentional tip offset or way too soft or hard and you can miss the pocket by a diamond. That simply is not true about any other type of shot. So what you are doing is correct; you are getting all the "science" of it down. Now all you have to do is come up with YOUR OWN practice methods as well as DO the suggested ones A LOT. I am fully aware that you know this and it probably isn't very helpful but I just thought I would "ground" you with it.
PS have you figured out how to take video with that camera yet?
2 diamonds up from corner pocket from diamond
opposite rail point on rail in front of first diamond
(i used to use thru the first diamond)
to corner pocket
or side pocket to point on opposite rail in front of second diamond to corner( again i used to think the tracks were all thru the diamonds this is for banking only
for kicking depending on the system some are thru and some are across/in front of the diamond))
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That's good so far. You know the difference between "opposite" and "through" the diamonds. I'm not so clear on your description, so I'm not sure that you have it right. (Unfortunately, the table diagram thingie doesn't work a lot of the time any more and it's not really accurate enough to draw the diagrams needed for this discussion.)
Have you ever tried to set up a mirror system target ball? It's described in this article: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996-10.pdf
If you are accurate in putting the target ball in place, it will quickly tell you if your calculations actually get the mirror-system result. As you noted, the mirror system is only a start, but it is a good reference.
i printed the article and will read it tonight
i often use the mirror system or spot on the wall for kicking
I use a couple of different systems for banking but much of it is from memory and adjusting to the current table conditions.
With practice you will know whether you need to hold the bank up or lengthen it out and there are various ways of doing that with changes to aiming point, speed, spin or a combination of those.
As Ratta has said, John Brumback's DVD is a very good resource. Freddy's books and DVD's are also good.
Something you may wish to consider is setting up "reference banks" and then learn how to make them using different adjustments. Another way to do this is start with a 2:1 ratio bank and then put your paper hole reinforcers an inch a part leaving the cueball in the same place and practice those shots while moving the object ball to each new position until they are comfortable and you will find the limits of your banks as well as your percentage of each bank if you do 10 banks at each position.
Hope this helps.
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That is EXACTLY what I PM'd him earlier but in alot less words. Just kidding. Well said & I obviously agree.
You could purchase Jimmy Reid's "Almost All I Know". He has a few interesting sections on banking I think you might enjoy.
He takes any guess work out of making bank shots.
John
He takes any guess work out of making bank shots.
John