Banking Secrets

dougster26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone have any tips, secrets, etc. that they care to share on banking, both across and length of table.

I don't seem to be able to find too much info on this subject. I did purchase John Brumback's DVD and that was helpful as well as info from Freddy The Beard.

What I am looking for is anything other than just dividing the numbers. I've experimented with looking at the CB in relation to the opposite pocket. Also just hitting straight on, quarter ball, or half ball. Also, using English and hitting hard/soft. I think the position of the tip of your cue on the CB versus the diamonds may have some bearring. I know that there must be some info out there. Maybe, it is something that is guarded and only given up at a cost.

If there is something out there beyond the norm, I'd appreciate it if you would mention where to find this

Thanks in advance
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone have any tips, secrets, etc. that they care to share on banking, both across and length of table.

I don't seem to be able to find too much info on this subject. I did purchase John Brumback's DVD and that was helpful as well as info from Freddy The Beard.

What I am looking for is anything other than just dividing the numbers. I've experimented with looking at the CB in relation to the opposite pocket. Also just hitting straight on, quarter ball, or half ball. Also, using English and hitting hard/soft. I think the position of the tip of your cue on the CB versus the diamonds may have some bearring. I know that there must be some info out there. Maybe, it is something that is guarded and only given up at a cost.

If there is something out there beyond the norm, I'd appreciate it if you would mention where to find this

Thanks in advance

If you can't learn anything from Brumack or Freddy, there is nothing else to learn. Banking has a lot of feel to it, learning the speed of the hit and how much english to use. It's also a huge matter of how the cushions play.
 

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Freddy's info is great, have only watched a bit of Brumback's video but seemed more of an advanced video and not a banking primer for beginners.

Personally, I don't think there is a magic answer. There are a lot of variable to consider, which is why I think the best bankers look to eliminate or standardize as many of them as possible, and then they of course understand how to alter the path by altering each of the variables as well.

I've had a few students come to me wanting to learn to bank better. I start by showing them the variables and making sure they understand the effects. I show them some ways to standardize the shots to just make them (position comes later).

For actually making the balls, I like using the diamonds as references and showing the 2:1 ratio for softer banks and the 2.5:1 ratio for medium speed banks, it works vary well and a good reference shot when on a new table.

I used to bank completely by feel, but now I use SEE or Pro1 to align the shot and shoot it. They just go in, very consistent. I just taught a lesson where I showed the person just enough CTE/Pro1 for them to recognize the banks and know how to align and pivot, sort of a mini version of the system. Have taught that a few times now and has been very effective in giving the students a reference as well as building their own feel for the table.

If interested, feel free to PM me and I can share more details.
Scott
 

dougster26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Brumback's info on holding the CB up when banking cross side was very helpful along with his length of table tips in making the OB go into the pocket at a straighter angle.

I'm looking more for sighting the bank. Using diamonds, CB and tip position, or opposite pocket. I agree with the speed and english. Feel, is in my opinion, a category where someone knows a little more than the other guy and has a upper hand on the feel that he is using. I also, when banking, look at the shot and if it doesn't look right, I make adjustments.

Banking is an art form. Lot of variables, but I still think there are some secrets out there.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Banking is an art form. Lot of variables, but I still think there are some secrets out there.

That's why they are called "secrets" LOL

Nick Varner is one of the best bankers and kickers out there, I don't know if he has an instructional video, but I think he does give lessons.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Keep in mind the distance that the OB is from the rail. If the OB is sliding when it hits the rail it will 'hold', that is, it will come out at less of an angle. That being said, the speed of hitting the shot needs to be considered in conjunction with the angle. I don't play center cue ball, so I hit almost every bank shot with some form of english. The question is, what can I do to help the OB come out at the correct angle.

If you don't know english, then you only have speed to help it roll out at the correct angle.

I don't know what else to say unless you have specific questions. PM me if you wish.

Regards,
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I am looking for is anything other than just dividing the numbers.

There is a reason that the diamonds are set back away from the nose of the rail. And when you understand that reason, banking becomes so much easier.

The naturally rolling CB (or any ball) reflects 1/2 ball earlier than the nose of the rail.
The naturally rolling CB is still rolling when it leaves the rail and what was forward roll is now sideways roll.
As the reflecting ball translates this sideroll into natural roll the reflecting ball arcs forward (like a massé). This forward arc changes the direction of the reflected ball

If you now take 3 cue sticks, one on the line of the ball into the rail, one on the line from 1/2 ball from the rail at the natural reflection angle, and one at the diamonds location on the rail;

What you find is that the arc describes the distance between the second cue and the third cue.

The speed of the cloth determines how fast the sideroll is converted into natural roll.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I have Brumbacks banking dvd too, it has a wealth of info on it. One thing I noticed is he hits most banks pretty firm, I have had a lot of sucess hitting many banks soft but always being very aware of contact induced spin on the object ball. I had to learn banks, one of my leagues we play 3 or 1 on the 8. One advantage of hitting them soft is not dropping them in the wrong pocket if you miss, but I suppose that only matters on the 8 andnot other shots.
 

KenK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
English on bank shots

Im too am in the process of working on improving my banks in hopes of becoming a lot more consistant. Ive read and currently re-reading Banking with the Beard's book. I have a question that maybe somebody could help shed some light.

In his book he states "1 tip of english equals about a 1/4 Diamond or a 1/4 ball hit. We can interchange these variables by hitting the object ball 1/4 fuller or thinner or adding or subtracting 1/4 diamond fro the aim..."

Could somebody please help clarify this principle? Does inside english shorten the angle off the rail and vice versa for outside english? I kind of get this principle but its a bit foggy still. Any help in clarifying will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

NobodySpecial

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Truman

If you're anywhere near Louisville, Truman Hogue has a nice little lesson he's put together. If you call Rack 66 502-969-2222 either Truman will be there or they'll be able to get you in touch with him.
 

Banks

Banned
In his book he states "1 tip of english equals about a 1/4 Diamond or a 1/4 ball hit. We can interchange these variables by hitting the object ball 1/4 fuller or thinner or adding or subtracting 1/4 diamond fro the aim..."

Could somebody please help clarify this principle? Does inside english shorten the angle off the rail and vice versa for outside english? I kind of get this principle but its a bit foggy still. Any help in clarifying will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

That's about what I use on Diamond tables. For clarification.. your second question answers that - inside holds/shortens and outside widens.

So, if you're staring at a bank that is lined up perfectly for being 1/4 diamond wide, just use a touch of inside and a firm hit. Similarly, for a bank that's looking short, use a touch of outside to make it go long.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
as i best recollect
in freddys book gospool there are pages of "tracks" and explanations where if the balls are line up in this tract if you hit the propper thickness of the object ball they go(bank) without having to aim at a spot on the rail
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
am currently filming my Touch of Inside PIVOT System (TIPS)

Does anyone have any tips, secrets, etc. that they care to share on banking, both across and length of table.

I don't seem to be able to find too much info on this subject. I did purchase John Brumback's DVD and that was helpful as well as info from Freddy The Beard.

What I am looking for is anything other than just dividing the numbers. I've experimented with looking at the CB in relation to the opposite pocket. Also just hitting straight on, quarter ball, or half ball. Also, using English and hitting hard/soft. I think the position of the tip of your cue on the CB versus the diamonds may have some bearring. I know that there must be some info out there. Maybe, it is something that is guarded and only given up at a cost.

If there is something out there beyond the norm, I'd appreciate it if you would mention where to find this

Thanks in advance

I am currently filming my Touch of Inside PIVOT System (TIPS) and will be done this week and in post production over the weekend.

This will be the most in depth Banking System ever released for the general public and will specifically apply to One Pocket, Bank Pool and Stategic 9/8 Ball Banking.

All banks are aimed with the TIP and the target will be the cue ball. Every bank will be covered, no matter how many rails, and every spin you'll need to get position or create a safety (free banking strategies).

This DVD will be over 90 Minutes and available asap.

CJ Wiley www.cjwiley.com
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
There is no system that will provide you with the skills necessary to bank reliably. The only method available that is even close to foolproof is the same method the Pros, and all the rest of us use, and that is repetition.
Practice bank shots over, and over, and over, and over again, until your minds eye can see the shot and execute it correctly. :)
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Im too am in the process of working on improving my banks in hopes of becoming a lot more consistant. Ive read and currently re-reading Banking with the Beard's book. I have a question that maybe somebody could help shed some light.

In his book he states "1 tip of english equals about a 1/4 Diamond or a 1/4 ball hit. We can interchange these variables by hitting the object ball 1/4 fuller or thinner or adding or subtracting 1/4 diamond fro the aim..."

Could somebody please help clarify this principle? Does inside english shorten the angle off the rail and vice versa for outside english? I kind of get this principle but its a bit foggy still. Any help in clarifying will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I basically agree with what Banks & 'Tramp' said. I'm not a numbers kind of guy I'm more a feel guy like 'Tramp' suggests. But I do do what Banks was saying but I don't put the fraction numbers on it.

Just to qualify about inside & outside, remember that is in reference to the angle of the bank not the angle of a cut on the object ball to the rail. What would be inside relative to a ball being cut to the rail could be a widening spin & vise versa. I hope that makes sense.

Regards,
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no system that will provide you with the skills necessary to bank reliably. The only method available that is even close to foolproof is the same method the Pros, and all the rest of us use, and that is repetition.
Practice bank shots over, and over, and over, and over again, until your minds eye can see the shot and execute it correctly. :)

I will hit a million rails (HAMR) until I go broke paying table time, and then move on to the next table. with dead rails and slow cloth...
 

JE54

Gotta get a new dentist.
Silver Member
It's good that there are some veried opinions. And people are nice to help the others that are trying to learn.
 
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