huckster said:
Huckster, I agree completely with your list except, as other people have mentioned, Ike Runnels and Dave Matlock belong on your list as well.
Banks
- Thread starter pimp
- Start date
Huckster, I agree completely with your list except, as other people have mentioned, Ike Runnels and Dave Matlock belong on your list as well.
Red Shoes Bankers
Then I guess I've been lucky enough to be in a place where some of the best play.
Piggy
Fredddy the Beard, and
Ike Runnels
are there quite a bit.
Marco Marquez is there once in a while.
Danny Harriman won the banks tournament there in July.
Richie Richeson was playing Ike a few weeks ago.
Not to mention Dallas West and Jeff Carter there a few months ago for the 14.1 tournament.
Then I guess I've been lucky enough to be in a place where some of the best play.
Piggy
Fredddy the Beard, and
Ike Runnels
are there quite a bit.
Marco Marquez is there once in a while.
Danny Harriman won the banks tournament there in July.
Richie Richeson was playing Ike a few weeks ago.
Not to mention Dallas West and Jeff Carter there a few months ago for the 14.1 tournament.
All-Time Bank List
Here is my all-time Bank list:
I also played them all.
Eddie Taylor # 1
Leonard "Bugs" Rucker #2, the rest are probably a toss-up
Javenly "Youngblood" Washington (the original Youngblood) beat Taylor getting 9 to 8.
Johnny "Cannonball-Lefty" Chapman, played Taylor even. He was the 1st player I seen to bank 8 and out. (Did it to Danny Jones)
Donnie Anderson -- played the total game the best.
Truman Hogue -- most powerful offensively.
Tony "Fargo" Ferguson -- Straight-back, 1 or 2 inches off the back rail --was his specialty.
Honorable Mention:
Gary Speith -- didnt play as safe as his old man did.
Marvin Henderson -- played all games including 3 cushion.
Vernon Eliot -- Had the greatest stroke in the game.
CornBread Red -- Had a 100lb heart.
Everybody else I could and did beat. (Once in a while I even beat almost all of the above on my home court --Bensingers -- but never Taylor. But on neutral ground they were all the favorite over me.)
the Beard
Here is my all-time Bank list:
I also played them all.
Eddie Taylor # 1
Leonard "Bugs" Rucker #2, the rest are probably a toss-up
Javenly "Youngblood" Washington (the original Youngblood) beat Taylor getting 9 to 8.
Johnny "Cannonball-Lefty" Chapman, played Taylor even. He was the 1st player I seen to bank 8 and out. (Did it to Danny Jones)
Donnie Anderson -- played the total game the best.
Truman Hogue -- most powerful offensively.
Tony "Fargo" Ferguson -- Straight-back, 1 or 2 inches off the back rail --was his specialty.
Honorable Mention:
Gary Speith -- didnt play as safe as his old man did.
Marvin Henderson -- played all games including 3 cushion.
Vernon Eliot -- Had the greatest stroke in the game.
CornBread Red -- Had a 100lb heart.
Everybody else I could and did beat. (Once in a while I even beat almost all of the above on my home court --Bensingers -- but never Taylor. But on neutral ground they were all the favorite over me.)
the Beard
bud green said:
Here is a story about Donnie "The Cincinnati Kid" Anderson
http://www.wideworldofbilliards.com/history.html
Mj also thinks the late Gary Spaeth should be higher on the Beards list.
A couple discrepancies,
That was a wonderful story about the great Donnie Anderson, but the writer overdid it slightly. There were only a couple players in the history of the world who came into Bensingers and overpowered it. Donnie wasnt one of them. A couple of examples: Harold Worst was one, Rags Fitzpatrick was one, Jersey Red and Boston Shorty werent. I take offence that the writer cites me as one of Donnies victims in Bensingers. We played even for $50 a game and I beat him eight games ahead. In the big bank tournament held in Chicago in the 80's I beat Donnie 23 to 6 and I later finished second to Gary Speith. However truthfully, he was a better banker than me if we played daily. For a long time Bugs was the only guy who could beat him.
Gary Speith could not beat any of the guys I named above him.
the Beard
MikeJanis said:
That was a wonderful story about the great Donnie Anderson, but the writer overdid it slightly. There were only a couple players in the history of the world who came into Bensingers and overpowered it. Donnie wasnt one of them. A couple of examples: Harold Worst was one, Rags Fitzpatrick was one, Jersey Red and Boston Shorty werent. I take offence that the writer cites me as one of Donnies victims in Bensingers. We played even for $50 a game and I beat him eight games ahead. In the big bank tournament held in Chicago in the 80's I beat Donnie 23 to 6 and I later finished second to Gary Speith. However truthfully, he was a better banker than me if we played daily. For a long time Bugs was the only guy who could beat him.
Gary Speith could not beat any of the guys I named above him.
the Beard
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F
Fred Agnir
Guest
Great Stuff!!!!freddy the beard said:
Instead of us putzes putting up our lists, I'd love to see lists from Varner, Hall, Grady, and Brumback as well. The legends of our sport would have a better opinion on the all-time greats.
Fred
P.S. I should have talked more with Shorty about pool, but he was always surrounded and I never thought to talk to him about the past.
Freddy, Any stories about the other "Cincinati Kid" Don Willis?
Freddy, do you have any stories about Don Willis?
http://www.gcaba.com/willis.htm
freddy the beard said:
Freddy, do you have any stories about Don Willis?
http://www.gcaba.com/willis.htm
I aint that old
That is a great article about Don Willis. To those that read it, the unnamed black player that challenged all the world champions and turned Don Willis down was Javenly"Youngblood" Washington of Chicago's South Side. The best story I have about Willis is when he lost $100 at 10 a game, to Eddie Robin ("Winning Onepocket") playing 9ball on 4x8 Harold Worst tables( "worst" tables was a good description, because they were the worst tables ever made). Few people believe the story because Robin cant make a ball anymore. I had to send Eddie Robin a signed document that I actually seen the match and what occurred so he would have proof when he told the story. When I later quizzed Willis in Bensingers about what had happened, he said the table conditions got away from him and he would have had to show too much speed to get even. Plus he knew that Robin was from New York and that meant there was no way a New York guy would lose back 10 games.
He was right of course.
the Beard
the kirkwood ki said:
That is a great article about Don Willis. To those that read it, the unnamed black player that challenged all the world champions and turned Don Willis down was Javenly"Youngblood" Washington of Chicago's South Side. The best story I have about Willis is when he lost $100 at 10 a game, to Eddie Robin ("Winning Onepocket") playing 9ball on 4x8 Harold Worst tables( "worst" tables was a good description, because they were the worst tables ever made). Few people believe the story because Robin cant make a ball anymore. I had to send Eddie Robin a signed document that I actually seen the match and what occurred so he would have proof when he told the story. When I later quizzed Willis in Bensingers about what had happened, he said the table conditions got away from him and he would have had to show too much speed to get even. Plus he knew that Robin was from New York and that meant there was no way a New York guy would lose back 10 games.
He was right of course.
the Beard
Sorry Freddy
Sorry Freddy. I didn't mean to imply that you were old, but you have the best stories and I'd thought I'd take a shot. How about Wimpy? Again no offense, since I know his real prime was in the forties, but you have to have a couple good ones from the sixties or Johnson City, IL
freddy the beard said:
Sorry Freddy. I didn't mean to imply that you were old, but you have the best stories and I'd thought I'd take a shot. How about Wimpy? Again no offense, since I know his real prime was in the forties, but you have to have a couple good ones from the sixties or Johnson City, IL
Last Story for Awhile
Sorry Freddy. I didn't mean to imply that you were old, but you have the best stories and I'd thought I'd take a shot. How about Wimpy? Again no offense, since I know his real prime was in the forties, but you have to have a couple good ones from the sixties or Johnson City, IL
This is another excerpt from my next book, The GosPool According to the Beard:
The #1 and #2 Nine Ball players of the 60's were Harold Worst and Luther "Wimpy" Lassiter, of Elizabeth City, NC. Nobody would play either guy even-up. Naturally, Worst and Lassiter never gambled with each other. However, I witnessed a challenge made by Worst to Lassiter at Johnston City, IL, after Lassiter beat Worst in a tournament Nine Ball match. Worst, who was in heat after the loss, offered to play Wimpy Nine Ball for $200 a game after the tournament matches were over. I, and many others, swarmed to the gambling room after the last match ended to see the big game. Neither player showed up. (It turned out that Worst would not play on the Sabbath -- it was late Saturday night -- and Lassiter, having heard that Worst had recently beaten the Canton, OH legend, Don Willis, wasn't eager to play either.)
(Please, no more stories, buy the book when it comes out in six months.)
the Beard
Sorry Freddy. I didn't mean to imply that you were old, but you have the best stories and I'd thought I'd take a shot. How about Wimpy? Again no offense, since I know his real prime was in the forties, but you have to have a couple good ones from the sixties or Johnson City, IL
This is another excerpt from my next book, The GosPool According to the Beard:
The #1 and #2 Nine Ball players of the 60's were Harold Worst and Luther "Wimpy" Lassiter, of Elizabeth City, NC. Nobody would play either guy even-up. Naturally, Worst and Lassiter never gambled with each other. However, I witnessed a challenge made by Worst to Lassiter at Johnston City, IL, after Lassiter beat Worst in a tournament Nine Ball match. Worst, who was in heat after the loss, offered to play Wimpy Nine Ball for $200 a game after the tournament matches were over. I, and many others, swarmed to the gambling room after the last match ended to see the big game. Neither player showed up. (It turned out that Worst would not play on the Sabbath -- it was late Saturday night -- and Lassiter, having heard that Worst had recently beaten the Canton, OH legend, Don Willis, wasn't eager to play either.)
(Please, no more stories, buy the book when it comes out in six months.)
the Beard
freddy the beard said:
Freddy,
I have to respectfully say you're nuts here! I staked Gary againsts everyone on your list except Eddie Taylor, Youngblood and Cannonball (and they were past their prime and couldn't have won anyway) and we robbed them all. Bugs 3 times (once at one-pocket). Gary and I started running together around 1981 and from that time on he gave Donnie Anderson 8-7 and robbed him so many times with that spot DONNIE WAS ASKING FOR 9-7 and later said he just wouldn't play Gary, regardless of the spot! Gary had his number! I also staked him in the tournament where you came in second to him at the Chicago Billiards Cafe. The night before Gary had given Piggy Banks 8-7 and beat him nine in a row! Piggy told his stake horse not to worry that Gary was "SPELL BANKING"! The stake horse said "maybe, but we don't know when this spell is going to be over!" We joked about that for many years!
Gary considered Eddie Taylor the best of all times with Bugs close behind, in their prime! I considered Gary right up there with those two! Gary also played nine-ball and one-pocket at championship level though you are correct that his dad Joey was a better defensive player, but Gary matured a lot in the last 10 years he played and learned to be more defensive!
just more hot air!
Sherm
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Sold!!
[(Please, no more stories, buy the book when it comes out in six months.)
the Beard[/QUOTE]
Ok Freddy. Thanks for sharing. I'll be ordering some copies as soon as it's out!
The first one was so good, six months seem like an eternity, but I'll be awaiting it's arrival.
[(Please, no more stories, buy the book when it comes out in six months.)
the Beard[/QUOTE]
Ok Freddy. Thanks for sharing. I'll be ordering some copies as soon as it's out!
The first one was so good, six months seem like an eternity, but I'll be awaiting it's arrival.
Gary Speith
the Beard
You neglected to mention what happened after Gary won the tourn. and played a fresh-out-of-jail Bugs. Gary won the first set and he could have broke Chicago if he could have kept on winning. You couldnt possibly have covered all the money that people wanted to bet on Bugs after he lost the first set. Remember? Bugs won the next 2 sets easily and you and Gary went to the rack. Gary was a great player but I didnt like his safe game. He played like Piggy Bank, they never protect the investment. As for Donnie Anderson, we both know that Donnie was a better game-maker than Gary. Gary was a Gun-Fighter, Donnie was a lock artist, I played him enough to know. He knew he could get Gary to spot him. I knew Gary since he was a little kid and liked him very much, but I'm just giving my opinion.cuesmith said:
the Beard
freddy the beard said:
Did you ever hear a story about Tony Coleman coming into chicago while he was in his early 20's and as the story I heard goes he steamrolled over a guy who was considered one of the best bankers of the time. I was told all the guy could do as Tony banked out from everywhere was pound his stick on the floor and stammer " Tony fucking who, from Benton fucking where".
freddy the beard said:
Freddy,
You have it partly right. We came to Chicago on "short money"! We won $900 @ $100 a game from Piggy the night before the tournament. Gary went through the tournament, for the most part "unchallenged"! He had more trouble with the electronic scoring system than any of the opponents. IIRC you were his closest match at 23-18 and that was because of your style of play! No disrespect intended, but you deliberately slowed him down because you knew it hurt his momentum, and you were never out of his "line of sight" when he was at the table. In fact you were often still hanging on the table when he shot! That was his own fault for not managing his match better and letting you manipulate it.
When Bugs arrived everyone knew there would be action! Greg Sullivan, who had been friends of Gary and I for a while approached me and asked if he could have a piece of Gary's action. With the tournament money and the gambling winnings from Piggy we had only a little over $2000. The tourney only paid $1000 for 1st. As you know "bank pool" just didn't pay well! Gary insisted on "locking up" his end of the booty so all I had to gamble with was $1000. Greg put up another grand and we agreed on race to 4 short rack for $1000 a set. Gary beat Bugs badly the first set 4-0 or maybe 4-1. Of course Bug's stake horse had a suitcase full of money and wanted to jack the bet to 2K! I declined, and said one more set at $1000 first! My rationale was if we won another set we could play for 2K and have 2 barrels. If we lost we still had another barrel to shoot for 1K. Greg, in his infinate wisdom, felt like we could win a lot by jacking the bet then! We argued about it a while and after some taunting, (not by Bug's he's always been perfect gentleman to gamble with) I gave in and let Gary play the next set for $2000. Well naturally that set came down hill-hill to the last ball on the table. Bugs made a great frozen "endrail to endrail" straight back to win the second and last set! We would have played another for $1000 but Bug's stakehorse refused to reduce the bet and $1000 is all I could scrape together! To recap, Bugs won $1000, They split sets, Gary won 7 games to 4 or 5 (not sure if Bugs won one game or not the first set!) I believe if Greg had listened to me and we'd managed our money better, we'd have broke Bug's stakehorse that trip! But we'll never know~! Bugs came to Cincinnati twice after that and tried to play Gary. Once playing banks, once one-pocket and we sent them home broke both times. Cecil Tuquell (prounounced by most as Tugwell) also came to Cincinnati to play Gary, after Gary had beaten him at Strawberry's one-pocket tourney. He thought his tourney loss was a fluke till we sent him home broke too!
Gary didn't get nearly the respect he deserved! Your assessment of his game is pretty close, during his early years, but he was one of the rare players who played his best, later on in life. His game got much better when he learned a little patience! Apparently you didn't pay enough attention to his game the first few years of the Derby City Classic, just before he passed away! His last 5 years (1995-2000) were by far his best playing years and most of that time he was also battling leukemia and hepatitus-c!
Like I said from the beginning, Freddy, I mean no disrespect! I've always liked you and we have lots of mutual friends! I just don't think you had Gary's game clocked correctly, at least in the latter years.
just more hot air!
Sherm
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Tony who?
Tony "Banks" Coleman, while a great friend of mine, and holder of a very large pool heart, with capabilities of beating anybody at any time, was unlikely to be steamrolling Chicago's best bankers, especially at that time. There was a reward out for players like Tony in Chicago then. ie.,Players with bankroll that would shoot at a white flag. That style played perfectly into the "Chicago squeeze" bankers who dominated that era, myself included. Tony's record with me, and you can ask him, is "O-fer." We still carry a balance --never to be collected-- from the last strumming.
the Beard
pimp said:
Tony "Banks" Coleman, while a great friend of mine, and holder of a very large pool heart, with capabilities of beating anybody at any time, was unlikely to be steamrolling Chicago's best bankers, especially at that time. There was a reward out for players like Tony in Chicago then. ie.,Players with bankroll that would shoot at a white flag. That style played perfectly into the "Chicago squeeze" bankers who dominated that era, myself included. Tony's record with me, and you can ask him, is "O-fer." We still carry a balance --never to be collected-- from the last strumming.
the Beard
Ok, I give in -- almost.
Truthfully, when Gary was at his best, I was probably on the way out, so I judged him from my earlier point of view. My last impression was when he played Black Howard the Coward banks in Kalamazoo, MI. He couldnt beat Howard. Also the final score between him and I in the finals was 23 to 21, not 23 to 18. We were both in the 2 hole when I had him in a trap, and he stabbed at a long straight back, missed it badly and froze me in the stack. I couldnt play safe and he banked in the next two. No apologies forthcoming from me for being a journeyman "sharker" either. When you beat me, you had to beat the whole package. I came out of a rough school, just like Gary's old man Joey. Another thing, while Gary was a cocky kid, he was always very respectful to me. Ok, Ok, put the kid in the top 10. I stand corrected.
the Beard
cuesmith said:
Truthfully, when Gary was at his best, I was probably on the way out, so I judged him from my earlier point of view. My last impression was when he played Black Howard the Coward banks in Kalamazoo, MI. He couldnt beat Howard. Also the final score between him and I in the finals was 23 to 21, not 23 to 18. We were both in the 2 hole when I had him in a trap, and he stabbed at a long straight back, missed it badly and froze me in the stack. I couldnt play safe and he banked in the next two. No apologies forthcoming from me for being a journeyman "sharker" either. When you beat me, you had to beat the whole package. I came out of a rough school, just like Gary's old man Joey. Another thing, while Gary was a cocky kid, he was always very respectful to me. Ok, Ok, put the kid in the top 10. I stand corrected.
the Beard