Banned ivory
- Thread starter ca sn8ke
- Start date
https://cdfgnews.wordpress.com/tag/ivory/
http://www.ivoryeducationinstitute.org/category/lawsuit/
Here are a couple of places to start.
You should also google "California ivory law" or something similar and you'll get tons of links.
There's also a sticky on the wanted for sale home page
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=430635
http://www.ivoryeducationinstitute.org/category/lawsuit/
Here are a couple of places to start.
You should also google "California ivory law" or something similar and you'll get tons of links.
There's also a sticky on the wanted for sale home page
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=430635
Customs
SF Port Authorities ( customs ) They do ask direct questions Phone: (415) 782-9200
I would call from a pay phone .
If you tell them you are planning to ship a cue with ivory, they ask questions and if there is the intent to break the law I can only assume by the way the customs agent talked they will investigate.
Questions I was asked
Who you are.
Who you planning on having the cue shipped from and to who.
Where was this cue was advertised, who was the cue made by .
SF Port Authorities ( customs ) They do ask direct questions Phone: (415) 782-9200
I would call from a pay phone .
If you tell them you are planning to ship a cue with ivory, they ask questions and if there is the intent to break the law I can only assume by the way the customs agent talked they will investigate.
Questions I was asked
Who you are.
Who you planning on having the cue shipped from and to who.
Where was this cue was advertised, who was the cue made by .
In a nutshell, can't do anything. No loopholes I've seen. Like MM said they will probably investigate - more revenue or whatever. Be smart and I wouldn't put much up here. Gl
No More Ivory In Cues Made in CA or Sold There....
Been said before and undoubtedly it will be said again.......don't ship anything with ivory into, or from CA, that contains any amount,
or type or form, of ivory whatsoever unless you can substantiate thru documentation that you owned the cue prior to July 1. 2016.
Keep in mind that all ivory can still be questioned as to its legality, i.e., pre-ban ivory. However if you have adequate documentation
substantiating your ownership of the cue in question, CA Fish & Wildlife will accept that as reasonable proof the cue was completed
in accordance with Federal & CA ivory ban regulations as currently enacted or else they'd otherwise have to refute the documentation.
These regulations are enacted on a de facto basis so be sure your documentation is dated & precedes enactment of the ivory ban regulations.
It has to absolutely frustrating beyond belief to have been on a cue-maker's list for a long time awaiting the start of your cue to now be told you
can't have ivory in it. What about Gina Anniversary Cues Not Delivered yet or being on Ed Prewitt's waiting list the last few years to now get a call
saying he is ready to start but you can't have ivory ferrules or joint so how does a $8k cue with Juma sound to you?
It is totally absurd but the law is the law.......let's hope it gets over turned soon. Meanwhile, I intend to take my Prewitt ivory laden cue to one of the
Las Vegas cue shows next year or 2018 if the CA ban doesn't get relief. I need to be able to be outside CA if I did sell it and I'd only do that to get
my Hercek monster cue that would also have ivory. I have a hunch I'll fare pretty good as to its value since there's no more cues from Ed like mine.
However no one truly knows what will happen to cue values until there's some proven trend line and that's going to take awhile ...1 to 2 years...IMO.
Matt B.
Been said before and undoubtedly it will be said again.......don't ship anything with ivory into, or from CA, that contains any amount,
or type or form, of ivory whatsoever unless you can substantiate thru documentation that you owned the cue prior to July 1. 2016.
Keep in mind that all ivory can still be questioned as to its legality, i.e., pre-ban ivory. However if you have adequate documentation
substantiating your ownership of the cue in question, CA Fish & Wildlife will accept that as reasonable proof the cue was completed
in accordance with Federal & CA ivory ban regulations as currently enacted or else they'd otherwise have to refute the documentation.
These regulations are enacted on a de facto basis so be sure your documentation is dated & precedes enactment of the ivory ban regulations.
It has to absolutely frustrating beyond belief to have been on a cue-maker's list for a long time awaiting the start of your cue to now be told you
can't have ivory in it. What about Gina Anniversary Cues Not Delivered yet or being on Ed Prewitt's waiting list the last few years to now get a call
saying he is ready to start but you can't have ivory ferrules or joint so how does a $8k cue with Juma sound to you?
It is totally absurd but the law is the law.......let's hope it gets over turned soon. Meanwhile, I intend to take my Prewitt ivory laden cue to one of the
Las Vegas cue shows next year or 2018 if the CA ban doesn't get relief. I need to be able to be outside CA if I did sell it and I'd only do that to get
my Hercek monster cue that would also have ivory. I have a hunch I'll fare pretty good as to its value since there's no more cues from Ed like mine.
However no one truly knows what will happen to cue values until there's some proven trend line and that's going to take awhile ...1 to 2 years...IMO.
Matt B.
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You can sell the cue within the state of California, correct?
Nothing....Squat......Nada.......Zippo.....Zilch.. .....Noooooooo!
Benny......"Absolutely not."........you can't barter trade or sell it or donate the cue to a pal
but your can bequeath your cue to your children or grandchildren.as part of your estate.
Nothing.....nothing is the absence of something........and is zero is nothing.......no cue can ever
be sold or made again within CA's geographical boundaries unless, or until, the current ivory ban
is amended or revoked........no more ivory from Tonkin, Guitterez, Prewitt, or any other cue-maker
as long as they reside in CA. Even an out of state shop owned by a CA cue-maker is affected since
it's viewed to be a willful intention on the part of the CA cue-maker to circumvent the CA ivory ban.
The below cues have zero value in the state of CA but when I cross the state line, everything changes.
So I fully expect to be attending some Las Vegas cue shows in the future & hopefully, if I can find a
Hercek cue that matches the same specs of all my other cues....flat ivory joint and 18.5 ozs and a killer
design, then I'd consider relinquishing my EP cue but only for the right Hercek cue or maybe a Barry S. cue.
p.s. All the white is in these cues is elephant ivory except for 3 butt caps (3 ivory caps & 3 non-ivory butt caps).
Matt B.
Benny......"Absolutely not."........you can't barter trade or sell it or donate the cue to a pal
but your can bequeath your cue to your children or grandchildren.as part of your estate.
Nothing.....nothing is the absence of something........and is zero is nothing.......no cue can ever
be sold or made again within CA's geographical boundaries unless, or until, the current ivory ban
is amended or revoked........no more ivory from Tonkin, Guitterez, Prewitt, or any other cue-maker
as long as they reside in CA. Even an out of state shop owned by a CA cue-maker is affected since
it's viewed to be a willful intention on the part of the CA cue-maker to circumvent the CA ivory ban.
The below cues have zero value in the state of CA but when I cross the state line, everything changes.
So I fully expect to be attending some Las Vegas cue shows in the future & hopefully, if I can find a
Hercek cue that matches the same specs of all my other cues....flat ivory joint and 18.5 ozs and a killer
design, then I'd consider relinquishing my EP cue but only for the right Hercek cue or maybe a Barry S. cue.
p.s. All the white is in these cues is elephant ivory except for 3 butt caps (3 ivory caps & 3 non-ivory butt caps).
Matt B.
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I don't think so.
As has been pointed out, it is dead simple to get info on this. Here is an example:
http://www.mercurynews.com/science/...vory-nearly-all-sales-california-banned-after
Google gave me that link after all I had typed in was "cali" so it seems to be a popular topic.
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Just like the EPA thugs raiding Gibson Guitar, Bavafongoul has posted photo's of "probable cause" for Moonbeams thugs to have a raid, film at eleven. Just like guns and ebony it's now up to Matt to prove his innocence.
BTW, nice cues.
BTW, nice cues.
Cue repairs are legally permissible but ivory cannot be used for the repair even to replace damage.
If you crack or break an ivory ferrule of joint or cue butt or inlay......you are screwed. The damaged
ivory can only be rep;aved with non-ivory........ivory can not be used for anything.......even repairs or
ordering new shafts........I have two shafts with ivory ferrules on order with Ed Prewitt and those
shafts will never get made unless I use non-ivory ferrules which I would never want to ever have.
So my new shafts from Ed Prewitt will never get made.......anyone with a cue on order or am waiting
to be contacted, you had better get accustomed to playing with piloted steel joints and MOP designs
because CA cue-makers are completely out of the ivory business unless the regulation is changed.
Bob Owen had to really push hard to finish my cue before the ivory ban hit. The original estimate to
complete my cue was 14-15 months but it was completed in a year. and arrived Memorial Day, a month
before the ban started..........and the design used a lot of ivory too. I was very fortunate to work with two
cue-makers on my last customs, Bob Owen & Jerry Rauenzahn, and both men respected the deadline
confronting my custom cue orders. And both custom cues arrived Memorial Day so while I am frustrated
not to still be collecting cues, I am gratified that I was able to order two beautiful designs from two of the
nicest, incredibly talented cue-makers of the modern era.......Thank you Bob & Jerry......and Deanoc too.
Matt B.
p.s. The photos are of the inlays that were made & used by Bob for my cue design.
All of the ivory is legal pre-ban ivory and the cue has a flat ivory joint, ferrules and
ivory butt cap and without question, it is flat out spectacular.......Amazing workmanship.
If you crack or break an ivory ferrule of joint or cue butt or inlay......you are screwed. The damaged
ivory can only be rep;aved with non-ivory........ivory can not be used for anything.......even repairs or
ordering new shafts........I have two shafts with ivory ferrules on order with Ed Prewitt and those
shafts will never get made unless I use non-ivory ferrules which I would never want to ever have.
So my new shafts from Ed Prewitt will never get made.......anyone with a cue on order or am waiting
to be contacted, you had better get accustomed to playing with piloted steel joints and MOP designs
because CA cue-makers are completely out of the ivory business unless the regulation is changed.
Bob Owen had to really push hard to finish my cue before the ivory ban hit. The original estimate to
complete my cue was 14-15 months but it was completed in a year. and arrived Memorial Day, a month
before the ban started..........and the design used a lot of ivory too. I was very fortunate to work with two
cue-makers on my last customs, Bob Owen & Jerry Rauenzahn, and both men respected the deadline
confronting my custom cue orders. And both custom cues arrived Memorial Day so while I am frustrated
not to still be collecting cues, I am gratified that I was able to order two beautiful designs from two of the
nicest, incredibly talented cue-makers of the modern era.......Thank you Bob & Jerry......and Deanoc too.
Matt B.
p.s. The photos are of the inlays that were made & used by Bob for my cue design.
All of the ivory is legal pre-ban ivory and the cue has a flat ivory joint, ferrules and
ivory butt cap and without question, it is flat out spectacular.......Amazing workmanship.
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I have a Celtic theme cue design in mind & much to my dismay, it will never get produced unless CA
revises the new ivory regulation or the Courts overturn the law. In the meantime, I was blessed to be
able to get this one before the ban started & this must have been a love for labor for Bob to undertake.
This cue plays 18.4 ozs or18.55 ozs with the 2 shafts (12.75 mm) & was built without using any weight
bolt in the butt. The balance and feel of this cue is stupendous . Anyway Bob posted in the Cue Gallery
that his last ivory cue has been shipped from his shop and there won't be any more. Although this may
sound braggadocio on my part but candidly, I think I wound up with one of Bob Owen's best ivory cues.
Hope you enjoy the photos and Bob was absolutely wonderful to work with, just as much as was Jerry
Rauenzahn too.....A+++ cue-makers & Iet me assure you both guys are great & really excel at their craft.
revises the new ivory regulation or the Courts overturn the law. In the meantime, I was blessed to be
able to get this one before the ban started & this must have been a love for labor for Bob to undertake.
This cue plays 18.4 ozs or18.55 ozs with the 2 shafts (12.75 mm) & was built without using any weight
bolt in the butt. The balance and feel of this cue is stupendous . Anyway Bob posted in the Cue Gallery
that his last ivory cue has been shipped from his shop and there won't be any more. Although this may
sound braggadocio on my part but candidly, I think I wound up with one of Bob Owen's best ivory cues.
Hope you enjoy the photos and Bob was absolutely wonderful to work with, just as much as was Jerry
Rauenzahn too.....A+++ cue-makers & Iet me assure you both guys are great & really excel at their craft.
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